Steady To Shot or Not

[CowboyBirdDogs]

Do most people want their dogs steady to shot? I know it is required to obtain a MH but some people seem very content on SH. Generally the reason behind this is because of all the birds that are lost if the dog is steady to shot. I understand that a good dog will mark a downed bird and go after it when released however some birds, i.e. pheasant and blue quail, would just land and run. I think the people that would lose the most birds would be the ones that have trained their dog to where they have to walk up and physically release them with a tap on the head or back. I haven't hunted with anyone that has trained their dog(s) this way but I do train with someone like this. I don't think either is necessarily wrong, me personally, I want my dogs to be steady to wing for safety reasons, but I don't find it all that important for them to be steady to shot and I'm perfectly happy with just getting them their SH. My opinion may change in the future as I become more older and wiser . Any opinions on this?

[displaced_texan]

My first one wasn't steady to shot.

This one will be.

Why? Why not? Cool to see, I'm sure I'll be even more proud to say I've trained a dog to that level.

I've never field trialed or hunt tested, but I think I'm gonna play that game a little with this one. One of our members has about talked me into it.

[Cajun Casey]

Nothing wrong with having a little class, particularly if you don't have a tail.

[CowboyBirdDogs]

Nothing wrong with having a little class, particularly if you don't have a tail.

What do you mean?

[displaced_texan]

Nothing wrong with having a little class, particularly if you don't have a tail.

What do you mean?

Just classy to watch a dog steady to shot...

She and I joke about tails a lot...

[nikegundog]

I think along with your question you should have asked if they trial their dogs also. I think you are going to find that some of the trialers are going to respond that they find it useful and people who only hunt are going to go the opposite way. I am only a hunter and I hunt wild pheasants, I want by dog running to that bird on the flush. I feel its going to give my dog the best chance to find the pheasant. I not going to shoot my dog and the people I hunt with now better also. On occasion a dog might bump another bird on a retrieve, but I weigh that against having a lightly hit pheasant that might get away. I believe I have the ability and time to train a dog to be steady, I just don't see the need as a hunter. With that being said I see the advantage as minimal in most circumstances, and if I needed my dog steady for competition he would be steady while hunting.

[Cajun Casey]

Nothing wrong with having a little class, particularly if you don't have a tail.

What do you mean?

Just classy to watch a dog steady to shot...

She and I joke about tails a lot...

Check out the avatars, ES. Dis-tex has a pointer. Mine is a GSP. Their tails are the only way to identify their breed,

[slistoe]

I hunt with steady dogs because I enjoy hunting with them more. I have been successful at trailing, but I hunted with steady dogs long before I ever attended a field trial and I will hunt with steady dogs long after I have quit trialing. As a hunter I take pride in the class and training of my dogs. If all you ever hunt is pheasants and you have no interest in the finer points of training and the aesthetics of the hunt then who cares, hunt with flushers for all I care - heck hunt with flushing pointing dogs even. Enjoy yourself while doing it. But don't kid yourself that you have some type of advantage on the birds by having a dog break at flush. Dogs that are capable and willing to find birds will find them with the full second head start the birds get while waiting for the release. To believe otherwise is simply wishful thinking. On the other hand, if you hunt any type of covey bird there is the very real occurrence of missed opportunities at birds by breaking dogs, not to mention the very real occurrence of dogs completely missing the fall of multiple birds whilst chasing down the unscathed ones. (I have spent enough time behind unbroke dogs to have been privy to these happenstances on multiple occasions.)

But as I said, enjoy your dog however you would like. I like them broke.

[Neil]

Steady

[Duckdon]

Breaking after the first shot was the way we did it when I was younger. That was to keep the dog from jumping into the shot on the flush. Now I am older and like a little more finess. My current dog will be trained to release on command. Duckdon

[3Britts]

Just to clarify. You mean steady to shot or kill?
I require me dogs to be steady to kill and always work so that my dogs release upon command.
Safer for the dog and I have lost very few birds over the years.

[slistoe]

Yeah, when I wrote steady, I meant steady. Dogs are either steady - they go when they are told, or they are not steady - they go at some time that they feel like going without being told.

[CowboyBirdDogs]

I mean steady to wing, so they break at the shot. Great point about the covey birds slistoe, you do lose a lot of birds that's fall because your dog is chasing the others.

[CowboyBirdDogs]

What do you mean?

Just classy to watch a dog steady to shot...

She and I joke about tails a lot...

Check out the avatars, ES. Dis-tex has a pointer. Mine is a GSP. Their tails are the only way to identify their breed,

Sssshhhhhh. Don't tell dis-Tex, but his dog's tail blends in with the tile and I honestly thought that was a shorthair, that's why I didn't get it.

[RayGubernat]

I hunted behind dogs that broke as soon as the bird hit the air. Did that for over forty years and didn't need anything more. Interestingly, many of those dogs would stay solidly pointed most of the time, if there were myultiple birds(a covey) and only some of the birds lifted. I'm guessing that they knew there were multiple birds and knew not to budge.

Got involved in trials and had to go the rest of the distance with steadiness.

Getting a dog reliably steady to wing and shot, or even to just shot, is a lot more work than getting a dog to be staunch, because a well bred dog will get to staunch all by itself, pretty much without any help from the "trainer". Sometimes it will get to staunch in spite of the trainer... as was the case with a couple of mine, early on.

Keeping a dog steady to wing and shot is a constant thing and can detract from the enjoyment of the hunt for some folks.

If I only hunted, I would break my dog steady to wing and shot and then let them slip a little in the field. This way I could have a dog that I know can take the training but I also don't have to agonize over it and can concentrate on the rising bird and not have to look at the dog prior to shooting. I suck bad enough as a wingshot as it is. I don't need any additional distractions to help me to miss.

What works for your situation and your needs and desires.

RayG

[Joe Amatulli]

It should be illegal to hunt behind a dog that is totally broke. It’s NOT hunting any more, it’s murder, birds have no chance, unless it’s Ray gunning!

[ElhewPointer]

The whole excuse of "I want my dogs right on those birds' tails", is silly. Don't shoot like crap. If the bird is pointed, there is very little reason for it not to be a clean kill.

As far as why. I think you should break the dog out totally, not for when you are hunting necessarily, but you want to know if the dog can handle the pressure of being able to be broke.

[gonehuntin']

Not. I hunt a lot of pheasant and I want them on that bird as soon as possible. Grouse, I would keep them steady. Problem is, you can't have them steady on one bird and not the other. I let em' go.

[Chief_dog]

I guided a lot for about five years in southwest Kansas and southeast Colorado on both wild and pen-raised birds. I made my dogs stay broke, even when clients wanted to hunt their unbroke dogs and flushers with mine. I can't tell you how many times I've given those other dogs a chance to find a downed bird before releasing a broke dog to go straight to the bird and make the retrieve. I've lost far fewer downed birds since I started using broke dogs. Blue quail (followed by pheasants) are my favorite birds. The quail population is pretty down right now, but five years ago I shot over 250 quail (about 150 of them blues) and over 90 wild roosters shooting a little 28ga side by side. Several other board members who I hunted with back when I used to hunt about 60 days a year can attest to this. BTW, I started hunting over broke dogs before I ever even saw my first field trial.

Hunt your dogs broke or unbroke.... it doesn't really matter as long as it makes you happy. For every person like me who likes them broke, you'll find another one who doesn't. I just get tired of hearing that you lose pheasants and blue quail if your dogs is broke.

[RayGubernat]

It should be illegal to hunt behind a dog that is totally broke. It’s NOT hunting any more, it’s murder, birds have no chance, unless it’s Ray gunning!

Joe - Why do you think I got into field trialing with pointers and not GSP's?? There is no retrieve requirement with pointers.

Why do you think my dogs look so nice after the shot. That stylish afterflush is the result of watching birds flying away... for years.

RayG

[4dabirds]

Safety for the dog, conservation of wildlife,Finished product. Raise your expectation of you and your dog. And when you get there you have a bragging rights hunting dog.

[Firemedic]

The whole excuse of "I want my dogs right on those birds' tails", is silly. Don't shoot like crap. If the bird is pointed, there is very little reason for it not to be a clean kill.

Have you grouse hunted much in Northern Michigan?

[displaced_texan]

What do you mean?

Just classy to watch a dog steady to shot...

She and I joke about tails a lot...

Check out the avatars, ES. Dis-tex has a pointer. Mine is a GSP. Their tails are the only way to identify their breed,

Sssshhhhhh. Don't tell dis-Tex, but his dog's tail blends in with the tile and I honestly thought that was a shorthair, that's why I didn't get it.

I heard a rumor...

We aren't friends anymore after what I hear you said!

[CowboyBirdDogs]

I sincerely apologize! For second i thought you had the right kind of dog, now I know to add you to my prayer list!

[ElhewPointer]

Not. I hunt a lot of pheasant and I want them on that bird as soon as possible. Grouse, I would keep them steady. Problem is, you can't have them steady on one bird and not the other. I let em' go.

You must travel a lot to hunt a lot of pheasant if you live in N. Wisc.

[gonehuntin']

Not. I hunt a lot of pheasant and I want them on that bird as soon as possible. Grouse, I would keep them steady. Problem is, you can't have them steady on one bird and not the other. I let em' go.

You must travel a lot to hunt a lot of pheasant if you live in N. Wisc.

SD two or more weeks a year.

[huntcrazed]

You brake them to the wing and shot and if you truly hunt a lot of birds you can let them slide a little where they brake to retrieve when the shooting is done with out having to say fetch or whatever command you use.....you can always go back if you had to.
I know how some of you will say that does not work and how they will brake before the shooting ends....but it is amazing how good a great dog can become when it gets into thousands of birds yearly....the truth is there is an advantage if there is emphasis in recovery to be on the wounded game earlier than later as it makes a difference how good the specific dog is in finding wounded game.

I personally believe if the dog has had a good dose of experience and ability in finding wounded game it should be steady to the shot and kill.

If it is a meat dog or a pup getting experience it is good to be allowed to go after the shot for meat on the table on wounded birds and experience that it will be useful if it gets trained later to be broke.

With out wanting to high jack this thread I wonder if anyone has seen a dog consistently retrieve the wounded birds first on a multiple kill with a covey rise and how is that possible with a dog even if they have tons of experience to happen every time?

Mario

[displaced_texan]

I sincerely apologize! For second i thought you had the right kind of dog, now I know to add you to my prayer list!

Much appreciated!:lol: