When, and in what order do you folks teach your commands? (Please remember that this is for a dog that's aspiring to be a DC, not just a FC)
Justus is 9 weeks old on Thursday. He has learned "sit", but we've since been trying to make him forget that training so that he won't sit down in the show ring. He's beginning to learn to walk on a loose leash because we stop the instant he starts to pull, and if he doesn't keep up we nearly drag him with us until he picks up the pace. But, we really haven't been working on "heel" because I'm not quite sure how.
Right now his attention span is like a fly, so we don't to an entirely lot of training with him. I can't even begin to think of training him to "stay".
I've got a small canvas dummy and he likes to retrieve it, but after a few tosses he learned that he gets to keep it if he doesn't run right back to me. I know he wants to play a lot, and I realize that he's a pup and should be playing a lot, but are there ways that I can structure his playtime so that he's learning too? When should I put a few drops of scent on the dummy?
Thanks for any feedback!
When to start teaching certain commands?
When to start teaching certain commands?
- Steven
Justus Kennels.com
Justus James Ayres SH CGC - Justus - Rest in Peace, buddy.
Wind River's JK Clara Belle - Belle
Wind River's JK Black Tie Affair - Tux
Justus Kennels.com
Justus James Ayres SH CGC - Justus - Rest in Peace, buddy.
Wind River's JK Clara Belle - Belle
Wind River's JK Black Tie Affair - Tux
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Featherman
Ayres,
Stop everything, take a step back and a deep breath and slow down!
At 9 weeks old, work on the pup getting socialized, gettting used to his surroundings and learning his name. If you have already taught him to sit, shame on you. It's problematic in the field as well as the conformation ring.
Give it a month before you try your hand at training anything. Everything should be fun, romps in short grass fields, playing with a bumper, chasing you or butterflies.
If you must play retrieve, do it in the house in a short hallway where he has no choice to come back (past) you. no more than three times, a couple of times a week. Leave him wanting more. And no, scents aren't worth the cost or even the time they take to apply.
If you really want a DC, half that (the FC) will require him to be bold. Proper socialization at this time and NO PRESSURE is the key to success. Let him be a puppy, take him everywhere, let life be an exploration and then slowly integrate your training plans.
Rushing things will only cause problems that you may not be able to correct.
Good luck, go slow and make sure he is enjoying it as much as you.
Jon
Stop everything, take a step back and a deep breath and slow down!
At 9 weeks old, work on the pup getting socialized, gettting used to his surroundings and learning his name. If you have already taught him to sit, shame on you. It's problematic in the field as well as the conformation ring.
Give it a month before you try your hand at training anything. Everything should be fun, romps in short grass fields, playing with a bumper, chasing you or butterflies.
If you must play retrieve, do it in the house in a short hallway where he has no choice to come back (past) you. no more than three times, a couple of times a week. Leave him wanting more. And no, scents aren't worth the cost or even the time they take to apply.
If you really want a DC, half that (the FC) will require him to be bold. Proper socialization at this time and NO PRESSURE is the key to success. Let him be a puppy, take him everywhere, let life be an exploration and then slowly integrate your training plans.
Rushing things will only cause problems that you may not be able to correct.
Good luck, go slow and make sure he is enjoying it as much as you.
Jon
I realize he's a pup, but some things do have to be taught now. For instance, along with learning his name (which he has) we've got to teach him to be a house dog. That means he has to learn what's acceptable. Jumping and biting hands, arms, and face isn't acceptable behavior, and we've got to do that training now before he thinks it's ok. Normally other puppies would do that training, but since he's home with us now and there are no other pups around, we're his playmates. (If he nips us too hard then we yip. If he does it again, we yip and stop playing with him for a minute and leave the room)
The same thing goes when taking him on walks. If we don't teach him now that pulling on the leash is unacceptable, then he'll continue to do it. Right now we just gauge if he's understanding it or not, and if not then we just carry him home and let him run around off-leash in the backyard. If he is understanding and walking back to us when we've stopped instead of pulling, then we keep walking. But there's no sense in letting him pull the leash and thinking it's an ok thing to do.
Now don't get me wrong, we have PLENTY of playtime. I'm only taking two classes this summer and my wife spends all day with him. We both romp with him in the living room with his toys and take him outside to play with the local kiddies. He absolutely LOVES kids and people (though he's shy, but somewhat curious, of any animal bigger than him). He has learned to sit for a treat, but that was a simple mistake that only took about an hour's worth of training. This is our first pup and we didn't know that teaching him to sit was a no-no, especially since "sit-stay" is a requirement for the CGC test. But, even so, since then we've been making him stand for a treat and it's working out well.
As for the show, we talked with another vizsla owner and he informed us that it's never too early to begin working on stacking the pup (also as shown in the book from http://www.thewelltraineddog.com ) So we're slowly doing that as well, once or twice a week, just to get him used to it.
I'm not planning on starting any field training now or anything. I'm just "one of those parents that like their kid watching educational cartoons." I mean, if there's something we can do that's fun and so that he's learning a lesson from it, then by all means we'd like to structure it that way.
Am I anxious to teach him things? Yeah. Especially things like "don't go wizzer on the carpet, do it outside!" and "this is breakfast, so eat your dogfood and quit barking at me while I munch my honeycombs." But don't get me wrong. We know he's a pup and all. We do treat him like a pup. We've got the 9-week training necessities down pat now.
But, when do you start teaching more advanced lessons like "heel" and "stay"... lessons that translate to be useful in the field as well as around the house? Two months? Four months? This is where we don't want to push him too much before he's ready. That's why I'm asking.
The same thing goes when taking him on walks. If we don't teach him now that pulling on the leash is unacceptable, then he'll continue to do it. Right now we just gauge if he's understanding it or not, and if not then we just carry him home and let him run around off-leash in the backyard. If he is understanding and walking back to us when we've stopped instead of pulling, then we keep walking. But there's no sense in letting him pull the leash and thinking it's an ok thing to do.
Now don't get me wrong, we have PLENTY of playtime. I'm only taking two classes this summer and my wife spends all day with him. We both romp with him in the living room with his toys and take him outside to play with the local kiddies. He absolutely LOVES kids and people (though he's shy, but somewhat curious, of any animal bigger than him). He has learned to sit for a treat, but that was a simple mistake that only took about an hour's worth of training. This is our first pup and we didn't know that teaching him to sit was a no-no, especially since "sit-stay" is a requirement for the CGC test. But, even so, since then we've been making him stand for a treat and it's working out well.
As for the show, we talked with another vizsla owner and he informed us that it's never too early to begin working on stacking the pup (also as shown in the book from http://www.thewelltraineddog.com ) So we're slowly doing that as well, once or twice a week, just to get him used to it.
I'm not planning on starting any field training now or anything. I'm just "one of those parents that like their kid watching educational cartoons." I mean, if there's something we can do that's fun and so that he's learning a lesson from it, then by all means we'd like to structure it that way.
Am I anxious to teach him things? Yeah. Especially things like "don't go wizzer on the carpet, do it outside!" and "this is breakfast, so eat your dogfood and quit barking at me while I munch my honeycombs." But don't get me wrong. We know he's a pup and all. We do treat him like a pup. We've got the 9-week training necessities down pat now.
But, when do you start teaching more advanced lessons like "heel" and "stay"... lessons that translate to be useful in the field as well as around the house? Two months? Four months? This is where we don't want to push him too much before he's ready. That's why I'm asking.
- Steven
Justus Kennels.com
Justus James Ayres SH CGC - Justus - Rest in Peace, buddy.
Wind River's JK Clara Belle - Belle
Wind River's JK Black Tie Affair - Tux
Justus Kennels.com
Justus James Ayres SH CGC - Justus - Rest in Peace, buddy.
Wind River's JK Clara Belle - Belle
Wind River's JK Black Tie Affair - Tux
-
Rusti's Mom
Ayres,
When we kept our three pups, my trainer said to do absolutely nothing with them until they were 4 months, but work with each one on a Quail wing. I did give them big rawhide bones to chew and carry around. The little guys looked so cute with the oversized bones. When he got them at 4 months of age and started the yard work, each one of them actually took the wood block in their mouths and carried it around. I personally think that letting them carry the big rawhide bones around helped with that. Other owner's pups the same age fought the wooden block. He has not had an ounce of trouble with mine.
He told us in the beginning, just let them be puppies and that is what we did.
Pat
When we kept our three pups, my trainer said to do absolutely nothing with them until they were 4 months, but work with each one on a Quail wing. I did give them big rawhide bones to chew and carry around. The little guys looked so cute with the oversized bones. When he got them at 4 months of age and started the yard work, each one of them actually took the wood block in their mouths and carried it around. I personally think that letting them carry the big rawhide bones around helped with that. Other owner's pups the same age fought the wooden block. He has not had an ounce of trouble with mine.
He told us in the beginning, just let them be puppies and that is what we did.
Pat
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icefire
any thing like whoa or heel puts pressure on the pup. When i raise a pup, they tend to house break themselve if given the opportunity. if the pup is VERY bold i would start birdwork around5-6 months old and no pressure till 8 or 9 months. because viszlas tend towards the softer side i would consider waiting longer. all i would do is take it out to fields and let it run and chase birds. no leash, especially no heel. if you have him on a leash let him pull you around. yes, it can be and IS to early to teach some of those things. when you are trying to foster boldness, allow uncontrolled fun/running at anytime and don't get to harsh with corrections for manners either. there will be enough pressure put on this pup eventually anyway
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Featherman
Ayres,
Stay - as a command has limited value so I typically don't teach it until I want a down-stay, one to two years old.
Look at your dog as a full bucket. For whatever you HAVE TO put in something else has to spill out. Put a strong heel on a dog and you loose independence or even range in the field - see the other post about the dog that won't move off heel. Make a dog sit and it will sit to relieve pressure from other unrelated training. Insist on constantly hacking a dog and your will loose range and desire.
Train a dog too early with too much pressure and your will change their personality.
Good luck,
Jon
Yes, his name and NO.I realize he's a pup, but some things do have to be taught now.
Keep leash time to a minimum and if he pulls, so what. He can't weigh more than 20 pounds. Yanking on a leash causes problems including damage to the dogs neck and wind-pipe. Nothing to be gained from making him comply.The same thing goes when taking him on walks. If we don't teach him now that pulling on the leash is unacceptable, then he'll continue to do it.
Take him for car rides, to the store, sit in front of the mall or on Main Street and let him learn from being places. He will less shy the more you expose him to different things.We both romp with him in the living room with his toys and take him outside to play with the local kiddies.
The CGC test isn't worth anything (and I'm a certified CGC Judge, and own CGC dogs). It is barely recognized by the AKC and isn't something to aspire to, much less train for.especially since "sit-stay" is a requirement for the CGC test
That's right but don't mistake that for training, that's just getting pup used to being handled.it's never too early to begin working on stacking the pup
Heel - give or take a year, depends on the dog.But, when do you start teaching more advanced lessons like "heel" and "stay"... lessons that translate to be useful in the field as well as around the house?
Stay - as a command has limited value so I typically don't teach it until I want a down-stay, one to two years old.
Look at your dog as a full bucket. For whatever you HAVE TO put in something else has to spill out. Put a strong heel on a dog and you loose independence or even range in the field - see the other post about the dog that won't move off heel. Make a dog sit and it will sit to relieve pressure from other unrelated training. Insist on constantly hacking a dog and your will loose range and desire.
Train a dog too early with too much pressure and your will change their personality.
Good luck,
Jon
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sudiegirl
ayres,
here is my take on this, this is what i have learned with my 2 guys. we didn't get condor as a young puppy, so i am not sure what exactly was done with him. judge was not my first puppy, but he was my first puppy that i wanted to do more with than just lay on the couch and maybe fetch up a few tennis balls (all of my dogs have become more than that, but my point is.....) we were also told let the pup be a pup and training too early can/will put too much pressure. i AGREE!! i also understand YOUR take about having to learn manners in the house. i think that it is fine to teach manners in the house.... a pup HAS to learn his place in the pack.... and the first thing that he HAS to know is that you are the BOSS, not him playmates. he should NEVER NEVER be allowed to put his mouth on your hand ESPECIALLY biting and nipping, nor should he be allowed to stand over you in any way, remember you are the pack LEADER and so are the other PEOPLE in your house!!! i am not saying to be mean to him, but when judge tried to growl or bite or jump and nip people, we put him on his back and HELD him there (despite the fact that he yelped and screamed like we were cutting his legs off) until he stopped. he was not allowed up until he was still and quiet and we LET him up. (and keep in mind, this is a BOLD 11 month old pup still) as for sit.... i agree you should try and forget it.... and this could be totally wrong, but we used whoa instead... we didn't drill it in or beat him if he didn't do it.... but we would place him in front of his food or the treat(which he wanted) and get him to stand there... i think i help him around his waist (not hard, but he could not get loose) and CALMLY said whoa. (if he sits since you have already taught him this, just gently lift him back up and say whoa again and tell him how good he is) the reward? food and ALOT of praise from me. we used it like a game and he LOVED it b/c all the positive things that happened when he did it right. and we did not do it every 5 minutes either. later on, we used it and would stack him in the process. after that, we used it when we would fetch up in the house (where he "had" to come right back.... again.... praise praise praise!!!) we eventually carried this into the yard, and stayed very positive. we did teach come, but not heel until after 6 months. we used a wonder lead when it was time for him to stop dragging us with the leash (before that, he got to run in the yard and was not on a leash for the most part) trust me, a wonder lead nips dragging and pulling on the leash in the bud. we also took him EVERYWHERE with us in the car (but i did not leave him in the car... god only knows what he would have done to it!! :roll: ) if you just work on manners and basic house commands (no, his name, and whoa if you like), which, if he is in the house with you and driving you nuts you probably have to do, just be positive and treat it like a game (dont overdo it and end on a good note). he will soon learn acceptable behavior inside and around people and you still wont be putting too much pressure on him. he looks like a little darling... good luck!
sudie
here is my take on this, this is what i have learned with my 2 guys. we didn't get condor as a young puppy, so i am not sure what exactly was done with him. judge was not my first puppy, but he was my first puppy that i wanted to do more with than just lay on the couch and maybe fetch up a few tennis balls (all of my dogs have become more than that, but my point is.....) we were also told let the pup be a pup and training too early can/will put too much pressure. i AGREE!! i also understand YOUR take about having to learn manners in the house. i think that it is fine to teach manners in the house.... a pup HAS to learn his place in the pack.... and the first thing that he HAS to know is that you are the BOSS, not him playmates. he should NEVER NEVER be allowed to put his mouth on your hand ESPECIALLY biting and nipping, nor should he be allowed to stand over you in any way, remember you are the pack LEADER and so are the other PEOPLE in your house!!! i am not saying to be mean to him, but when judge tried to growl or bite or jump and nip people, we put him on his back and HELD him there (despite the fact that he yelped and screamed like we were cutting his legs off) until he stopped. he was not allowed up until he was still and quiet and we LET him up. (and keep in mind, this is a BOLD 11 month old pup still) as for sit.... i agree you should try and forget it.... and this could be totally wrong, but we used whoa instead... we didn't drill it in or beat him if he didn't do it.... but we would place him in front of his food or the treat(which he wanted) and get him to stand there... i think i help him around his waist (not hard, but he could not get loose) and CALMLY said whoa. (if he sits since you have already taught him this, just gently lift him back up and say whoa again and tell him how good he is) the reward? food and ALOT of praise from me. we used it like a game and he LOVED it b/c all the positive things that happened when he did it right. and we did not do it every 5 minutes either. later on, we used it and would stack him in the process. after that, we used it when we would fetch up in the house (where he "had" to come right back.... again.... praise praise praise!!!) we eventually carried this into the yard, and stayed very positive. we did teach come, but not heel until after 6 months. we used a wonder lead when it was time for him to stop dragging us with the leash (before that, he got to run in the yard and was not on a leash for the most part) trust me, a wonder lead nips dragging and pulling on the leash in the bud. we also took him EVERYWHERE with us in the car (but i did not leave him in the car... god only knows what he would have done to it!! :roll: ) if you just work on manners and basic house commands (no, his name, and whoa if you like), which, if he is in the house with you and driving you nuts you probably have to do, just be positive and treat it like a game (dont overdo it and end on a good note). he will soon learn acceptable behavior inside and around people and you still wont be putting too much pressure on him. he looks like a little darling... good luck!
sudie