Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

lucas85
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Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by lucas85 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:46 am

Hi Everybody

What are your best ideas for a Gun Shy Dog to overcome it's weakness?
Got couple of ways of dealing with it myself but some new ideas would be appreciated.

Lucas

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:17 am

So do you give credit to the person for their ideas in your blog ?
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Cajun Casey » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:19 am

Well, you said new, so I suppose birds doesn't qualify.......

Are you familiar with stress reduction garmets like the Thundershirt (TM)? We are seeing a lot of positive results with storm fear and socially shy dogs using it.
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by GUNDOGS » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:23 am

kninebirddog wrote:So do you give credit to the person for their ideas in your blog ?
+1...ruth
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Sharon » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:45 am

lucas85 wrote:Hi Everybody

What are your best ideas for a Gun Shy Dog to overcome it's weakness?
Got couple of ways of dealing with it myself but some new ideas would be appreciated.

Lucas

You don't need ideas , you need an expert. Very hard to fix. What caused it in the first place?
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by beaverdam » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:57 pm

Get the dog bird crazy. When the Dog is bold on birds and actively chasing a bird have a friend fire a blank gun. Make sure they are at least a 100 yards out. If the Dog doesn't react to the gun have the shooter move in 5 yards every time you do this.Do this over a months time. And repeat with a 22, 20 and 12 Gage. Go slow and this will work. And don't worry about steadiness at this time, let the dog have fun chasing the birds.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:22 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Well, you said new, so I suppose birds doesn't qualify.......

Are you familiar with stress reduction garmets like the Thundershirt (TM)? We are seeing a lot of positive results with storm fear and socially shy dogs using it.
This is new to me. Tell us about your methods and results. I don't understand the concept.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Cajun Casey » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:41 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Well, you said new, so I suppose birds doesn't qualify.......

Are you familiar with stress reduction garmets like the Thundershirt (TM)? We are seeing a lot of positive results with storm fear and socially shy dogs using it.
This is new to me. Tell us about your methods and results. I don't understand the concept.

Ezzy
Basically, it's thoracic compression that helps inhibit the panic biofeedback by applying pressure to the vagus nerve. It's used in tTouch therapy and is provided by several different methods utilizing body wraps or jackets. It can also be accomplished by pressure point application around the xyphoid process.
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:18 pm

So how do you apply this pressure while you are hunting?

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Cajun Casey » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:20 pm

ezzy333 wrote:So how do you apply this pressure while you are hunting?

Ezzy
You wouldn't. This is a training and desensitization tool. You don't take a whoa post hunting, do you?
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:23 pm

I don't take a whoa post anyplace. But I do work with a dog and a gun in the field. The dog hears the gun for the first time while chaseing or hunting birds. Just doesn't make much sense other than something to talk about.

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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Cajun Casey » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:32 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I don't take a whoa post anyplace. But I do work with a dog and a gun in the field. The dog hears the gun for the first time while chaseing or hunting birds. Just doesn't make much sense other than something to talk about.

Ezzy
I work with rescue dogs and dogs that are high strung and that have had some very bad experiences. We try to give them every advantage. My latest is a pointer who was tossed out of the back a truck down the side of the expressway overpass. He's very forgiving, but I will suit him up before trying him with gunfire on chase.
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:44 pm

Great hope it works. But doesn't sound at all practical for correcting gunshy when you are in the field. And have not seen any evidence it would work or that anyone has ever tried it.

Why do you think a pointer falling out of a truck would be gunshy?

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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Cajun Casey » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:54 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Great hope it works. But doesn't sound at all practical for correcting gunshy when you are in the field. And have not seen any evidence it would work or that anyone has ever tried it.

Why do you think a pointer falling out of a truck would be gunshy?

Ezzy
Gun spooking may have been why someone threw him away. He didn't fall. He was tossed. The gal that picked him up wanted to keep him as a pet, but her boxer had other ideas, like having him for lunch. I told her I'd take him and start him in the system, maybe find him a new home as a gundog if he makes it, or as a pet if he doesn't. I have a little female pointer that will nearly kill herself to get away from gunfire. Whoever threw her away out on the highway made sure to kick her hard enough to break off her floating ribs on one side.

I don't know what your training philosophy is, but gunshyness would not go to the field. And you don't correct it, you desensitize to it. A lot of work goes into dogs before they are set down to hunt, at least where I come from.
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Cajun Casey » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:02 pm

Here. Call and ask Steve what his customers think about it.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/thunder-shirt-gray.html
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by V-John » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:25 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Here. Call and ask Steve what his customers think about it.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/thunder-shirt-gray.html
I have one that was donated to rescue. I haven't tried it yet, haven't had the need to but will, I'm sure.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:57 pm

V-John wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Here. Call and ask Steve what his customers think about it.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/thunder-shirt-gray.html
I have one that was donated to rescue. I haven't tried it yet, haven't had the need to but will, I'm sure.

I can see this for the nervous anxious dog and know of Temple Grandin her book Animals in Translation is very interesting.. But the thundershirt in the field for Gunshy the shirt is designed to put pressure and have a calming effect on the nervous system.
In the field I want to Amp a dog up about and on birds if I am going to work through a Gun Shy Issue

now the spastic ones on the chain gang now there might be a good place to apply the shirt..specially on those dogs that spin dig and waste energy and Lord knows some of the dogs owners sure could learn to mellow out
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by bossman » Sun May 01, 2011 2:12 pm

I'm 100% with Sharon on this one. Gun-shyness is very serious stuff. Find a good professional trainer. I would be interested is reading your "couple of ways of dealing with It".. Thanks and good luck.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun May 01, 2011 2:28 pm

I used to work with gunshy dogs and had pretty good results but a friend of mine that trains dogs part time has specialized in working with them in the past few years and has had great results. I have worked with him a little and though it may take a couple of months I think almost everyone has gone home and been a productive dog. Just another case where you have to go back to the beginning and start by building desire for the birds and then baby steps to get to the end.

I have no idea what or how a THUNDER WRAP could be used when the whole program is based on getting the dog excited and then using that for the cure. There are always new ideas, methods, and equipment on the market but too many times I think they are a gimmick that are being promoted and marketed as a great new way to get great results without working for it and too many newcomers grab it and believe all of the hype. But in the long run it seems that in many cases the tried and tested ways that have worked for years turn out to be the best way of geting the job done.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Cajun Casey » Sun May 01, 2011 3:30 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I used to work with gunshy dogs and had pretty good results but a friend of mine that trains dogs part time has specialized in working with them in the past few years and has had great results. I have worked with him a little and though it may take a couple of months I think almost everyone has gone home and been a productive dog. Just another case where you have to go back to the beginning and start by building desire for the birds and then baby steps to get to the end.

I have no idea what or how a THUNDER WRAP could be used when the whole program is based on getting the dog excited and then using that for the cure. There are always new ideas, methods, and equipment on the market but too many times I think they are a gimmick that are being promoted and marketed as a great new way to get great results without working for it and too many newcomers grab it and believe all of the hype. But in the long run it seems that in many cases the tried and tested ways that have worked for years turn out to be the best way of geting the job done.

JMO

Ezzy
I believe that is what was being asked about in the original post. New ideas for dealing with gunshyness. The use of touch and pressure therapy is not new by any means, going back three decades with Linda Tellington, for one, but it is not traditionally used in the hunting dog world because most trainers are not in the business of dealing with problem dogs as a majority of their clientele.
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Sharon » Sun May 01, 2011 5:57 pm

bossman wrote:I'm 100% with Sharon on this one. Gun-shyness is very serious stuff. Find a good professional trainer. I would be interested is reading your "couple of ways of dealing with It".. Thanks and good luck.

Oh my God , I'm honored to have you agree with me. I'm going to print and keep your post for those days I'm called an ............. :D
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun May 01, 2011 6:03 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:I believe that is what was being asked about in the original post. New ideas for dealing with gunshyness. The use of touch and pressure therapy is not new by any means, going back three decades with Linda Tellington, for one, but it is not traditionally used in the hunting dog world because most trainers are not in the business of dealing with problem dogs as a majority of their clientele.
Most trainers get all of the problem dogs and all of the ones someone has already screwed up. That's their bread and butter. Most are really happy when they get a young unspoiled dog with some ability as they see very few of them. That is not the experience I have seen or heard the professionals talk about.

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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Cajun Casey » Sun May 01, 2011 6:12 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:I believe that is what was being asked about in the original post. New ideas for dealing with gunshyness. The use of touch and pressure therapy is not new by any means, going back three decades with Linda Tellington, for one, but it is not traditionally used in the hunting dog world because most trainers are not in the business of dealing with problem dogs as a majority of their clientele.
Most trainers get all of the problem dogs and all of the ones someone has already screwed up. That's their bread and butter. Most are really happy when they get a young unspoiled dog with some ability as they see very few of them. That is not the experience I have seen or heard the professionals talk about.

Ezzy
Gee, you must really spend a lot of time talking to a lot of trainers. That's quite a blanket statement of the industry. From the training journals of how many pros do you draw this conclusion?
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun May 01, 2011 6:39 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:I believe that is what was being asked about in the original post. New ideas for dealing with gunshyness. The use of touch and pressure therapy is not new by any means, going back three decades with Linda Tellington, for one, but it is not traditionally used in the hunting dog world because most trainers are not in the business of dealing with problem dogs as a majority of their clientele.
Most trainers get all of the problem dogs and all of the ones someone has already screwed up. That's their bread and butter. Most are really happy when they get a young unspoiled dog with some ability as they see very few of them. That is not the experience I have seen or heard the professionals talk about.

Ezzy
Did you happen to noticed that the young lady from Oklahoma made the staement first
most trainers are not in the business of dealing with problem dogs as a majority of their clientele
. This is the same young lady that has an answer for every problem or question asked on the board.

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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Cajun Casey » Sun May 01, 2011 6:46 pm

How old am I, ezzy?

Do you not wish to clarify my question on your personal experiences with trainers?
Would you rather contunue to run down a method and a product offered as a solution to the original dilemma even though you know nothing about it?
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by birddogger » Sun May 01, 2011 7:01 pm

Lucas85, you are not going to fix a gunshy dog by using some contraption that presses on a nerve! Sharon and bossman gave you the right advise, although you could do it yourself following beaver dam's advise if you have the time and patience.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun May 01, 2011 7:07 pm

Cajun Casey wrote: most trainers are not in the business of dealing with problem dogs as a majority of their clientele.
Sheesh. When I was training, MOST of the dog's I got HAD problems, that's why I got them.
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Cajun Casey » Sun May 01, 2011 7:10 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote: most trainers are not in the business of dealing with problem dogs as a majority of their clientele.
Sheesh. When I was training, MOST of the dog's I got HAD problems, that's why I got them.
I'm sorry. Maybe you should have looked for a different type of client.
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by pointersperform » Sun May 01, 2011 7:12 pm

There are a few different way to help a gun shy dog. We just previously fixed that problem in a young dog of mine. We actually stopped shooting over him the first few times we would just let him point and get excited and not even worry with the gun. The next time we had him out we started clapping around him just to get him used to hearing a little noise but it wasnt loud enough to actually make him nervous or anything in that matter. After a few times of doing that we would shoot a crimped .22 blank. Now the gun shot doesnt bother him at all.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun May 01, 2011 7:14 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote: most trainers are not in the business of dealing with problem dogs as a majority of their clientele.
Sheesh. When I was training, MOST of the dog's I got HAD problems, that's why I got them.
Exactly the answer I have gotten from everyone I have talked to. Last one to say it was just recently and was estatic about a dog he had just gotten that was going to spoil him for the rest of the year. But then what do I know? Britlover thinks I can't drive and Cajun is sure she knows more than I do. I think she is convinced she is older too. :roll:

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by slistoe » Sun May 01, 2011 9:38 pm

I had a dog with a problem and I didn't feel I had time to work on it with other things going on so I called a pro and asked about having the dog worked with. I apologized for contacting him with a dog with trouble and he replied "heck, if it wasn't for people screwing up their dogs I wouldn't have a job." As for "clientelle", this fellow had a couple of NFC dogs on his string.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun May 01, 2011 9:59 pm

I think most trainers are more interested in eating and having a home than picking and choosing their clientel.

JMO

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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by kninebirddog » Sun May 01, 2011 10:10 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I think most trainers are more interested in eating and having a home than picking and choosing their clientel.

JMO

Ezzy
Yep ...
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by lucas85 » Mon May 02, 2011 2:31 am

kninebirddog wrote:So do you give credit to the person for their ideas in your blog ?
What's wrong in getting other user's opinion and share with it?

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by lucas85 » Mon May 02, 2011 2:37 am

bossman wrote:I'm 100% with Sharon on this one. Gun-shyness is very serious stuff. Find a good professional trainer. I would be interested is reading your "couple of ways of dealing with It".. Thanks and good luck.
I have a pointer and everything is ok with it. I just tried to get it used to the noise from the very begginging and it seemed to work out ok.
The reason I opened this post was because I was looking for some advice for my friend that has a gun shy dog.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon May 02, 2011 5:14 am

Cajun Casey wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote: most trainers are not in the business of dealing with problem dogs as a majority of their clientele.
Sheesh. When I was training, MOST of the dog's I got HAD problems, that's why I got them.
I'm sorry. Maybe you should have looked for a different type of client.
I was a DOG TRAINER, NOT some internet, self proclaimed expert that has never had to deal with problem dogs. A DOG TRAINER takes what is given to them; that's his job. If a dog doesn't have problems, it usually doesn't get sent to a trainer. The reason a dog IS sent to a trainer, is to CURE some PROBLEM.

Every one in a while you'd get a dog that had no problems and was sent in because of lack of time and knowledge by the owner.

Not often. From bird eating, through bolting and to gunshyness, you see them all. The kennel is filled with them.

Maybe some of the well known trainers won't take these dog's and deal with them, but for most of them, it's how they make their living. I made more money from Richard Wolters than all other writers combined. :D

Apparently you've never worked as a dog professional trainer. :?:

Or, are you someone that was run off here with one name, and came back under another? Your posts sound strangely familiar. :roll:
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by kninebirddog » Mon May 02, 2011 7:56 am

lucas85 wrote:
kninebirddog wrote:So do you give credit to the person for their ideas in your blog ?
What's wrong in getting other user's opinion and share with it?
Nothing wrong was just asking as I was very curious as to your signature line about the gun dog training blog, all I was wondering.


As for gunshy Birds and build up the desire for that bird..Personally if the dog isn't interested enough in birds anything else you try is never going to be really 100%
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by SHORTFAT » Mon May 02, 2011 8:35 am

If I'm not mistaken... the THUNDER WRAP would best be used in conjunction with the traditional training methods... I know my wife currently uses a type of pressure vest when working with autistic children... it simply helps the dog keep calm and not to panic. Never used one... and I ain't no expert... but I am at least familiar with the concept... I have the same problem with my EP right now, but have her to the point that she doesn't freak out when the gun goes off if she has a snoot full of feathers... started with a .22 blank at a distance and we are currently up to a 20ga blank... still at a distance. She doesn't like it, but she only looks back now and then puts her nose right back to work... I think patience when working with a skittish dog cannot be understated!.. :|
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by gittrdonebritts » Mon May 02, 2011 8:41 am

here is my 2 cents

I've been working with 2 yr old female britt that is well was gun shy and starting to be come bird shy and had a bad case of separation anxiety bad enough that she totally chewed through a wire crate and the wooden door leading to the basement one night to find me :!: I've had her since February, I used a combo of letting her chase and catch a lot of birds and I also used the Masters voice gun shy cure system at night, and I have had pretty good results the CD may be seen as a gimmick but used in conjunction with the hard work on birds it can be very effective, but there still is no magic cure, and a lot of time and effort has to be put in to help get the dog over its fear of the gun. JMO
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon May 02, 2011 8:44 am

SHORTFAT wrote:If I'm not mistaken... the THUNDER WRAP would best be used in conjunction with the traditional training methods... I know my wife currently uses a type of pressure vest when working with autistic children... it simply helps the dog keep calm and not to panic. Never used one... and I ain't no expert... but I am at least familiar with the concept... I have the same problem with my EP right now, but have her to the point that she doesn't freak out when the gun goes off if she has a snoot full of feathers... started with a .22 blank at a distance and we are currently up to a 20ga blank... still at a distance. She doesn't like it, but she only looks back now and then puts her nose right back to work... I think patience when working with a skittish dog cannot be understated!.. :|
Might have your wife look at the product or at the Anxiety Wrap and do an approximation with Ace bandage. It's the exact same thing they do with those children. I'd love to know if you try it and how it works.
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by 4dabirds » Mon May 02, 2011 3:56 pm

I find it interesting that when someone comes up with a method they have used , that is not necessarily a mainstream gun dog method they are attacked on this site as heretics. When the ideas are based in science even more so. It is as if the way we do things in our life should always stay the same in perpetuity . If this was the case in the evolution of man we would still be in caves and hunting with rocks. And the only dogs we would see would be the ones that were eating us. Some people will never evolve as trainers if they can not accept that times change with beliefs . The beliefs should be based in science not in some ones opinion however humble it may be. Some points I would like to bring up on this post. The first being that dogs in the 8 to 10 week age period are considered in the fear stage. During this period a dog is more likely to be permanently affected by a negative stimuli. The reason for this is that when the dog has is exposed negative stimuli during this period it is permanently marked in the dogs brain. A proton wraps around a neuron and it becomes a physical scar in the dogs brain. If this has occurred , the dog will never fully recover. Some training may help to diminish the behavior but will never extinguish it. Another point I would like to bring up is that when exposing a dog to gun fire it should not be an exercise in exposure. The idea is to get the dog to make an association . The dog should be thinking that gunfire = birds. the reason for this is that birds are the most motivational tool we have to work with as well as the ends to all means in the game. Banging pots or firing a blank gun when the dog is in this period as you might understand would be a cause to this effect of gun shyness.If someone properly monitors the dogs reaction in training while using a tape or a vest it certainly will not harm the dog. I would be leery to use any method or at least back off if the dog shows any sign of noticing the gun fire no matter how small it may be.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by birddogger » Mon May 02, 2011 5:25 pm

4dabirds, while I agree with a lot of what you said, I am confident enough to guarantee that on this particular problem, you are not going to cure it by pressing on a nerve! That is not an attack on anybody...it is just a fact.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by 4dabirds » Mon May 02, 2011 5:32 pm

birddogger wrote:4dabirds, while I agree with a lot of what you said, I am confident enough to guarantee that on this particular problem, you are not going to cure it by pressing on a nerve! That is not an attack on anybody...it is just a fact.

Charlie
i am assuming it is about the dogs state of mind while using a tried and true method . Does not sound like it could hurt the dog. I am for whatever is best for the dog.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Mon May 02, 2011 6:15 pm

4dabirds wrote:
birddogger wrote:4dabirds, while I agree with a lot of what you said, I am confident enough to guarantee that on this particular problem, you are not going to cure it by pressing on a nerve! That is not an attack on anybody...it is just a fact.

Charlie
i am assuming it is about the dogs state of mind while using a tried and true method . Does not sound like it could hurt the dog. I am for whatever is best for the dog.
I really question that. If you were for the dog you would listen to people with experience that have learned what they know from the dogs. They aren't looking in some book or waiting for science to tell them something they all ready know.

I can't think of a single trainer that hasn't changed over the years as he gained experience, but I will tell you they changed because the dogs showed them what works and what doesn't. What bothers me more is the people who have attended a seminar or read a book abd become experts but have no experience. I noticed that probably the first dozen or two of your posts always had a link to Hickox and his method. And then after a few weeks you kind of dropped that and you became the expert. And now you are taking polks at people who just won't change to what you espouse. I am glad and impressed you are taking an interest in training a dog. But you will learn more in a week with an old experienced trainer than you will in the next ten books you read. I'm sorry to say it is you that is refusing to change or grow as all you have done is find fault with the active trainers who are learning from hundreds of dogs what works and what doesn't. You are missing the golden opportunity to learn so much but you need to listen and not talk if you are ever going to grow into a dog trainer.

Ezzy
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by 4dabirds » Mon May 02, 2011 6:36 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
4dabirds wrote:
birddogger wrote:4dabirds, while I agree with a lot of what you said, I am confident enough to guarantee that on this particular problem, you are not going to cure it by pressing on a nerve! That is not an attack on anybody...it is just a fact.

Charlie
i am assuming it is about the dogs state of mind while using a tried and true method . Does not sound like it could hurt the dog. I am for whatever is best for the dog.
I really question that. If you were for the dog you would listen to people with experience that have learned what they know from the dogs. They aren't looking in some book or waiting for science to tell them something they all ready know.

I can't think of a single trainer that hasn't changed over the years as he gained experience, but I will tell you they changed because the dogs showed them what works and what doesn't. What bothers me more is the people who have attended a seminar or read a book abd become experts but have no experience. I noticed that probably the first dozen or two of your posts always had a link to Hickox and his method. And then after a few weeks you kind of dropped that and you became the expert. And now you are taking polks at people who just won't change to what you espouse. I am glad and impressed you are taking an interest in training a dog. But you will learn more in a week with an old experienced trainer than you will in the next ten books you read. I'm sorry to say it is you that is refusing to change or grow as all you have done is find fault with the active trainers who are learning from hundreds of dogs what works and what doesn't. You are missing the golden opportunity to learn so much but you need to listen and not talk if you are ever going to grow into a dog trainer./Ezzy
I always put a link to Georges site when I think it is pertinent to the subject. and I have spent a week with a pro his name is george Hickox. here is the link you could use it.http://www.georgehickox.com

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon May 02, 2011 6:45 pm

Ezzy,

The vagus nerve compression at the xyphoid process is something I learned in person from...




get ready for it....



Delmar Smith.
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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by slistoe » Mon May 02, 2011 6:50 pm

4dabirds wrote: and I have spent a week with a pro his name is george Hickox. here is the link you could use it.http://www.georgehickox.com
A full week - that would cost a pretty penny.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Mon May 02, 2011 6:54 pm

Just what I said. A week with George and you became a disciple even though you have never attended anyone else's seminar. And that makes you eligible to tell people who have trained dogs for forty years that they don't know what they are doing and should listen to you.

I am not trying to say that everything you say is wrong but I am trying to say that if you are serious about dog training then listen instead of talking till you have had success in training several birddogs and even then be willing to listen and learn. At this point you are a rank amature that hasn't even cracked the surface of the dog training world. This is your opportunity to expand your knowledge instead of trying to convince everyone you know more than they do. It just won't fly today or tomorrow until you can show the results that surpass what anyone else is accomplishing. Listen and then let the dog be your trainer.

I've been involved in this game for 50 years and I still am learning everyday. Maybe someday I will be able to answer all of the questions too but it's going to be a few years.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Mon May 02, 2011 7:01 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Ezzy,

The vagus nerve compression at the xyphoid process is something I learned in person from...




get ready for it....



Delmar Smith.

OMG you learned from the best. What kind of dog did be break of gunshyness with it? How long did it take? was the dog just gunshy or was there some bird shyness involved too? Did he tell you what caused the gushyness or how old the dog was or did the dog show shyness with just one hunter or was it only with a group? These are the question I or Delmar would ask and want to know before he even started and would make a difference in the method and time frame used to correct the situation. I know he didn't teach you to throw a vest on the next dog you see that is gunshy and then take it hunting!

Delmar or no other trainer trains like that or ever have. You may be the first!

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Any new ideas on how to cope with Gun Shy Dog?

Post by kninebirddog » Mon May 02, 2011 7:22 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Ezzy,

The vagus nerve compression at the xyphoid process is something I learned in person from...




get ready for it....



Delmar Smith.

OMG you learned from the best. What kind of dog did be break of gunshyness with it? How long did it take? was the dog just gunshy or was there some bird shyness involved too? Did he tell you what caused the gushyness or how old the dog was or did the dog show shyness with just one hunter or was it only with a group? These are the question I or Delmar would ask and want to know before he even started and would make a difference in the method and time frame used to correct the situation. I know he didn't teach you to throw a vest on the next dog you see that is gunshy and then take it hunting!

Delmar or no other trainer trains like that or ever have. You may be the first!

Ezzy
I wonder if doing Pilates would help :roll:

If this was something that would have worked I believe Delmar and or his son and the rest of the family would have utilized
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