Ever trained with chickens?

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bstranger
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Ever trained with chickens?

Post by bstranger » Thu May 12, 2011 4:08 pm

Has anyone trained their pointing dogs with chicks? The black ones even look like quail a bit, just curious. Thanks

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topher40
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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by topher40 » Thu May 12, 2011 4:23 pm

Waste of time, there would be no inherent value a chicken could provide.
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Highland Gundogs
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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by Highland Gundogs » Thu May 12, 2011 10:24 pm

My dog has done some training on my neighbors chickens without me.

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wills1235
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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by wills1235 » Thu May 12, 2011 11:38 pm

I'm training my new pup to stay away from my chickens. Any concern this will make him bird shy?
The best place to hunt is where the birds are. Next best is where they ain't. Anywhere else works too.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by gittrdonebritts » Fri May 13, 2011 12:23 am

wills1235 wrote:I'm training my new pup to stay away from my chickens. Any concern this will make him bird shy?
As long as you act like there nothing special and keep your cool and keep him controlled no, if your angry and beat on him for it you might have problems but most dogs can distinguish desirable game birds from "junk" birds with time and training.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by rkappes » Fri May 13, 2011 5:49 am

I was talking to a guy last week and he told me he uses ducks for upland training. Seemed odd to me. He was an old timer and said that it works well. Didn't know what to think.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by gittrdonebritts » Fri May 13, 2011 12:11 pm

rkappes wrote:I was talking to a guy last week and he told me he uses ducks for upland training. Seemed odd to me. He was an old timer and said that it works well. Didn't know what to think.
I know a few guys who use ducks mainly in the summer cause they take the heat better than upland birds

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by Ruffshooter » Fri May 13, 2011 2:01 pm

I would not train with chickens unless you want to use your dog to find the KFC's for you. :wink:
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

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bstranger
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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by bstranger » Fri May 13, 2011 2:07 pm

Well, I have an english setter that is about 18 and a half weeks old.

And, I am a curious guy, and I didn't want to order 5 chukers for 75 bucks, which is the only option I had as far as getting birds.... so I went ahead and bought some chicks that looked to be about 5 weeks old...

I took him out today and walked him around pyramid in IL, in the north fields.... went out and threw them down randomly and went back to the car and got my dog and went to some other places first to see if I could find some wild quail. He had never been on a live bird, and I have been wanting to get him on something. So after about ten mins of walking, we actually flushed some wild quail! He ran just right through it, no pause, nothing. I just stopped and tried to bring him back through it and let him sniff... no care at all for the scent even. Took him over to where I thought they landed, nothing, didn't find them. Took him over to the first two spots of where I dumped the chicks, nothing couldn't find them.... At the last spot finally we found the chick, but he didn't point, or really care about it.... Was a frustrating day.. to say the least....
We got home, after he had napped the whole way home, and he went straight over to where I was keeping the rest of the chicks, and just kind half heartedly stared at the chicks that I have cooped up for about five minutes.....
I can't tell if he is too young, doesn't care, or doesn't have the genes to do it.... so confused

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by brad27 » Fri May 13, 2011 2:21 pm


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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by Chukar12 » Fri May 13, 2011 2:21 pm

Way too young for any worrying yet...get on craigslist, someone in your area will have bobwhites and if not courtnix or button. Let the puppy have a bird on the lawn or somewhere and say nothing. Keep it short, if he walks away pick up the bird and quit. If he wants to carry it let him, if he chews on it say nothing, pick it up if he drops it and put him away. If he chases it or points it...whatever, its all perfect and say noything. Soon he will show interest. If you have to eventually take a bird from the dog reach down and lift gently on the flank. The dog will drop the bird and turn to address your hand, say nothing, pick up the bird and quit.

AND THEN...order Huntsmith 1 and 2, Hickox, Greta Beginnings or Perfect Start and follow a program that isn't "just" birds for the dog. There is another post going about mistakes we all make and frustration is numero uno...

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by Chukar12 » Fri May 13, 2011 2:33 pm

I just noticed that I gave you my same excat opinion before. I apologize for the duplication, but you really do need a program and a knowledge base to work from. I would get that puppy aggressive around birds in a hurry by letting him have a quail or two.

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bstranger
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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by bstranger » Fri May 13, 2011 2:48 pm

It's ok, I have been reading the gun dog book by richard a. wolters, and I have read the green one as well, by his understudy it sounded like. And, just whatever people have or haven't done in the past on this forum. But, I agree with you none the less.

I was just frustrated I guess... You always imagine the best, you don't expect the worst. He does great with wing on a string games that we randomly play with, I have a bottle of quail scent and put that randomly and let him play with some wings occasionally. He points pretty solid and has been getting his nose up more lately so I wanted to see how he would do.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by brad27 » Fri May 13, 2011 2:53 pm

He does great with wing on a string games that we randomly play with, I have a bottle of quail scent and put that randomly and let him play with some wings occasionally.
ditch the wings and scent. go on craigslist and find some common pigeons. they usually run $3-$5 a bird. watch the video i posted above.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by Chukar12 » Fri May 13, 2011 3:17 pm

It can 'shore enough be frustrating...You will get little or no help with anybody on Wolter's they were sort of quirky techniques at best and not really supported. I dont think the sentiment is the same on his water dog work however. Those smells have to be associated with live body scent and movement to awaken "prey drive" in that dog...pigeons will work, but quail are smaller less hardy (you want this passive dog dominating his birds) and taste and smell better as reported by 9 out of 10 pointing dogs....

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by bstranger » Fri May 13, 2011 4:00 pm

Thanks for all your information and knowledge sharing. He has no shyness in the field, or lack of enthusiasm, and he is always willing to learn and please so I don't have a stubborn dog. I agree with your comments though, as I do need to jump start his instincts to get him to be more "birdy". It is funny though that he chases and occasionally points butterflies and dragonflies....

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by gittrdonebritts » Fri May 13, 2011 7:21 pm

bstranger wrote:It's ok, I have been reading the gun dog book by richard a. wolters
I have a copy of the gun dog video by wolters and in my opinion wolters should have stopped after he did his retriever books didn't like anything about his way of doing things there are much better books and videos out there JMO go to LSC or GDS and look for some thing else would be my advice, and the pup is really to young to worry about pointing at this time let him be a pup get him in the woods and fields and just have fun with him do the basic intro work and again just have fun with him.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by ACooper » Fri May 13, 2011 7:25 pm

wills1235 wrote:I'm training my new pup to stay away from my chickens. Any concern this will make him bird shy?

I have seen it happen, some people have no problems. It is a situation I would avoid.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by birddogger » Fri May 13, 2011 7:45 pm

There will always be some frustration but I think you are getting frustrated a little too early. Forget about the chickens, wing on a string and scents. Relax and let your puppy and yourself have fun.

Charlie
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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by wills1235 » Fri May 13, 2011 11:41 pm

Chukar12 wrote:It can 'shore enough be frustrating...You will get little or no help with anybody on Wolter's they were sort of quirky techniques at best and not really supported. I dont think the sentiment is the same on his water dog work however. Those smells have to be associated with live body scent and movement to awaken "prey drive" in that dog...pigeons will work, but quail are smaller less hardy (you want this passive dog dominating his birds) and taste and smell better as reported by 9 out of 10 pointing dogs....

Wolter's techniques quirky? I know a whole group of guys been training Wolter's all their lives (one guys is 75+) and they swear by Wolter. I've never heard anyone knock him or any of his disciples before.
The best place to hunt is where the birds are. Next best is where they ain't. Anywhere else works too.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by ezzy333 » Sat May 14, 2011 11:01 am

You travel in different crowds than I do. I can think of one person before you that thought he was OK and probably a thousand or two that have recommended you throw his stuff away.

Interesting the difference.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by nikegundog » Sat May 14, 2011 1:25 pm

You travel in different crowds than I do. I can think of one person before you that thought he was OK and probably a thousand or two that have recommended you throw his stuff away.

Interesting the difference.

Ezzy
Over a million books sold and you can't think of one person that his work is OK, WOW.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by ezzy333 » Sat May 14, 2011 2:26 pm

nikegundog wrote:
You travel in different crowds than I do. I can think of one person before you that thought he was OK and probably a thousand or two that have recommended you throw his stuff away.

Interesting the difference.

Ezzy
Over a million books sold and you can't think of one person that his work is OK, WOW.
I know a lot that bought and read it and said it was worthless. But I am sure there are more than two tha tliked it but I just never heard them express it.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by northern cajun » Sat May 14, 2011 4:35 pm

Not chickens but Guinnea fowl great for making sure a dog has whoa down and they will put pressure on the dog all the noise and what not and they run all over, never had a problem that was created by doing this.
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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by bstranger » Sun May 15, 2011 2:06 am

We have used the wolters books on two Brittnies, and two setters.... The setters turned out amazing, and one of the brittnies, you couldn't keep him from hunting, he didn't care about people one bit, just let him hunt all day and he was happy.

And, I watched some of the videos I was told to look at in the posts before, and did exactly that with a chicken in the garage just to get him a little more excited.... That has already made him a lot more birdy.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by Duckdon » Sun May 15, 2011 12:18 pm

topher40 wrote:Waste of time, there would be no inherent value a chicken could provide.
I disagree with you Topher40. In our area we eat chickens.....Duckdon

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by ymepointer » Sun May 15, 2011 6:14 pm

northern cajun wrote:Not chickens but Guinnea fowl great for making sure a dog has whoa down and they will put pressure on the dog all the noise and what not and they run all over, never had a problem that was created by doing this.

I believe Henry P Davis suggested Guinee fowl for training birds too in a Very old book. I agree with Norhern cajun, if you have to depart from chukar, quail, or pigeons, skip the ckickens and get some Guinee fowl...I think they fly pretty well and run pretty good to. We can get guinee fowl here at most feed stores.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by Birdman250 » Sun May 15, 2011 9:38 pm

northern cajun wrote:Not chickens but Guinnea fowl great for making sure a dog has whoa down and they will put pressure on the dog all the noise and what not and they run all over, never had a problem that was created by doing this.
I too have used Guinnea fowls to steady my dogs as stated..I tried using chickens but they don't make all they noises and commotion like the Guinnea. Plus, the chickens don't fly as well..The Guinnea would taunt the dog and thus, steady to wing and shot or wild flush was great.
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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by Chukar12 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:15 am

by wills1235 » Fri May 13, 2011 10:41 pm



Wolter's techniques quirky? I know a whole group of guys been training Wolter's all their lives (one guys is 75+) and they swear by Wolter. I've never heard anyone knock him or any of his disciples before
As with all books, it was written to sell to a target audience. Its self description speaks of speed and quick training for the person with limited time and space resources. Standing birds is taught with a wing and a string methodology that promotes sight pointing and overused causes major problems with a pointing dog that should be stopping on scent. It is my opinion that the text and methods rush the process too much and severely limits the potential of a dog.

All that being said, many folks have used it successfully and with some their days afield consist of trips to a game farm where pen raised birds are hunted in 20 acre fields. Dogs can crowd those birds all day long, they can flag, sit on point, bump and chase as long as the gunner is in range, so on and so forth and the hunter is perectly happy. There is no reason this training cant accomplish that. If you want more from the dog, we have learned far better methods in achieving it. They take more time, but they produce a better bird dog.

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by mcclinj » Mon May 16, 2011 10:25 am

Bstranger,

I introduced my pup to birds at 12 weeks and she couldn't have cared less...I felt the same frustration. But people told me and are telling you not to worry, A few weeks later when I tried again, it was like someone flipped a switch in her, and now I cant take her for a walk without stopping every 10 seconds to point or chase a robin or sparrow along our path.

-John

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Re: Ever trained with chickens?

Post by bstranger » Sat May 21, 2011 7:20 pm

Ya, I have kinda got him off wing and a string and all that. I have just been reinforcing commands and doing more random woah's and others, just letting him play and teaching him his manners for now.

He is a sweetheart in the house and a running mad man in the field, so I am beyond happy with him at this point. If he is half the hunter that I think he will be he will be ok. I was just rushing him a bit, and I am excited seeing his personality more and more each day.

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