Creek the Ripper

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:39 am

I posted this on Upland Journal but thought I might try here for input. Seems like more trainers here are willing to shed some light on different subjects.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts

Golly geez am I gettin frustrated with my 13 month old boy. I worked him all summer long on Pigeons and had him steady to wing and shot. Now with these Forest Grouse he has regressed into a ripper. Now I know Forest Grouse are tough for a pointin hound due to not much scent on the ground but I'm considerin a check cord in the woods to show him what we expect. Almost daily we stake out a Pigeon to walk around in front of him, flush, fall to the ground with not so much as a blink of his eye? Pigeon no worky. Am I gettin impatient with this youngster or are my thoughts dead on? I'm torn between lettin him go and let him figure it out for himself or the old hands on approach of correcting him
Signed,
Flusher guy out of his element

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:01 am

Well im new to the game and DEFINITELY dont consider myself a "trainer".. ive been training my own GSP pup the best i can and have still alot to learn BUT theres a few things i wonder..why expecting so much from a 13 month old "pup" to be steady only after the summer, it takes constant training for steadiness, steadiness is a way of life not taught then finished..second is this dog whoa broke?? third i dont think taking the dog into the woods in a hunting situation to correct issues is a good idea stick to yard work with the check cord or the dog will associate hunting with corrections and it will take out his desire imo, someone with way more experience may disagree with me but just my thoughts..i have seen friends of ours let their dog get away with breaking, ripping birds, not retrieving to hand during hunting season with the attitude they will "fix" it after the seasons over in training which is very confusing for the dog, if its not being obedient in the field go back to yard work but i wouldnt do it in a hunting situation setting the dog up for failure if you know he has been ripping birds..also having a heavy hand and strangling its arse will do more damage then good, never ever correct a dog when angry or frustrated, put the dog up and go back to training later with a better state of mind jmo....ruth

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:26 am

Yes he is whoa broke. I can stop him on a dime. Obedience is great. His desire for birds I don't think could be broken no matter how bad I screw up. That's why I'm considerin the heavy hand. New to this game myself, I've owned exclusively Labradors for twenty seven yrs & hunted them in the Uplands for the most part. Yes, 13 months thats why I ask if I'm being impatient. He's off then on but yesterday watched him rip a Ruffed Grouse deliberately with no hesitation. Good input though, thanks.. Yard work is constant, it just seems like we have got into a rut we can't get out of lately.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:13 am

like i said new to the game so im looking forward to answers on this post to learn as well but i did call a friend with EP's and he wonders if your dog has gotten it in the face from a bird while on a retrieve, maybe a cripple, he said thats what will sometimes trigger ripping birds....good luck, wish i could be more of a help..ruth

adogslife · Post by **adogslife** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:14 am

Not to be rude,
where did you ever get the idea that you would be hunting a pointing dog its first real season BROKE?
Let this dog figure it out for himself. As long as he obeys HERE,FETCH,WHOA (when not on birds) he will learn to handle these birds.
Break him after this season.

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:30 am

IT takes time. Pigeons are not Grouse. They don't usually put up with much pressure. Many time you will see on here don't shoot birds not handled. Although, IF opportunity arises, I usually shoot one for them to retrieve when they are not around, working another area.

Not sure what grouse you mean, Ruffs, Blues, Spruce. I only have experience with Ruffs.

I will also take my dog on rides on the dirt logging roads and watch for one that crosses. I will note where the bird went into the woods, put my dog on a cc, walk it over to the area and let the dog trail it till it points, busts, or bumps the bird. Regardless of what happens, I whoa the dog. IF it is a pointed bird and I get a chance to shoot it I will, (easier if you have someone help shoot the bird while you work the dog) I, initially don't worry about the steadiness after the shot at this point. But you can use this as a training exercise. It is kind of random luck, but I think helps the dog to transition from the yard work and pigeon training. But other wise just hunt the dog let him figure out and learn what he can and can not get away with. The bird will teach him that stuff. The other thing, if you see him take one out or bump one use that as a training moment. But only if you witness it.

IMO
Rick

Ken Lynch · Post by **Ken Lynch** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:35 am

Break out of the rut and use different birds in training. Stake out a quail, chukar, and pheasant instead of the pigeon. Also do you lead him up to the bird or is he free running? Is he your only hunting dog? If so this season might not be much fun. Be prepared to put him on lead and quit for an hour or more as soon as it is confirmed that he rips out a bird. If it is only a few minutes between the bird rip and dog in hand go so far as to take the dog to the location of the rip and whoa him. Make him stand there for a minute or two without saying anything further. Then take him back to the truck on lead and put him up. Let him think about it for an hour or more. Then go hunting again. I had two female GSPs that drove me crazy in Maine when they were 10 months of age. I got them into good numbers of Woodcock. They would hold for the first flush and shot. However, they would break at the shot. They would run and bump another Woodcock and chase and bump and chase. I could see or hear Woodcock taking flight all over the place. Sometimes take half hour or more to round them up. I put them down one at a time and I was by myself. It was the most frustrating hunting trip I ever had. Got to the point I just wanted to sit down in the cover and cry. The next year the same dogs were older and steady as a rock. Sometimes it just takes time for the dog to mature and figure the whole hunting thing out. Consistent training all year long also helps. Good luck with your young teenager.

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:18 am

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx

Ken love this. Made me laugh.
Rick

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:08 am

Not to be rude

No, rude is okay. I'm a big boy I can handle it

where did you ever get the idea that you would be hunting a pointing dog its first real season BROKE?

Again, flusher guy here and not sure what to expect

Not sure what grouse you mean, Ruffs, Blues, Spruce. I only have experience with Ruffs.

Ruff's & Blues. So far he seems to handle the Blue's better than The Ruff's

I will also take my dog on rides on the dirt logging roads and watch for one that crosses. I will note where the bird went into the woods, put my dog on a cc, walk it over to the area and let the dog trail it till it points, busts, or bumps the bird. Regardless of what happens, I whoa the dog. IF it is a pointed bird and I get a chance to shoot it I will, (easier if you have someone help shoot the bird while you work the dog) I, initially don't worry about the steadiness after the shot at this point. But you can use this as a training exercise. It is kind of random luck, but I think helps the dog to transition from the yard work and pigeon training. But other wise just hunt the dog let him figure out and learn what he can and can not get away with. The bird will teach him that stuff. The other thing, if you see him take one out or bump one use that as a training moment. But only if you witness it.

This is exactly what I was thinking for a solution if the situation does arise. Like stated it happens by chance. Birds trailside for a training opportunity. Now that I'll be looking for a grouse trailside it will probably never happen again.

Also do you lead him up to the bird or is he free running? Is he your only hunting dog?

Bird staked out in the yard? Lead into with CC. Birds in remote launchers? Free running. He is my only hunting hound

I also run him on wild Quail which do stand for more pressure than Forest Grouse will allow for the most part, so that could be the issue as well.

adogslife · Post by **adogslife** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:41 am

You have an opportunity to offer exellent expose for your young dog to two species of wild birds, why would you want to put the breaks on his learning? The best training you can give a dog is wild birds and all you can think about is his busting and chasing.
Teaching a dog how to handle wild birds is the birds' job. I think you are missing the big picture.

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:52 am

QuilGordon,
Just what kind of pointing dog do you own, it very well maybe you own a slow maturing dog breed and your expetations for running a completely broke dog at this age are way out of reality.
RGD/Dave

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:23 pm

Of course, sorry

German Shorthair

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:49 pm

Beautiful picture.

It has been my experience that dogs see every bird differently.

One of mine was staunch on pigeons like yours but when we switched to chukars I had to start over. When pigeons and chukars were fine we went pheasant hunting. Seeing that big noisy bird bursts from the cover made it time to start again.

A CC in the bush is always caught on something .I'd use an e-collar in the bush.(Assuming the dog is conditioned to the collar.) Timing is everything. The moment that dog moved his hips to indicate "I'm going." and I would correct him- not over and over again for everything. Just that movement. Don't get frustrated. It's all fun after this hurdle is conquered.

PS I am assuming he is well who trained.

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:46 pm

One of mine was staunch on pigeons like yours but when we switched to chukars I had to start over. When pigeons and chukars were fine we went pheasant hunting. Seeing that big noisy bird bursts from the cover made it time to start again.

Comments like this helps. Makes me realize I'm not the only one. Being new to the game of pointing dogs I realize I'm the numbskull here. I've learned a lot today and I'm eager to give some of the suggestions a try

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:28 pm

Did the dog road right in on the bird at first scent without a point?

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:49 pm

He did not point at first scent. I stopped him with whoa. I could see the bird under a stand of pines.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:31 pm

QuillGordon wrote:He did not point at first scent. I stopped him with whoa. I could see the bird under a stand of pines.

Some dog's require pressure, some don't. Were I you, I'd give the dog a good shaking and put him back where he winded the bird. Some dogs have more point than others, some are more larcenous than others. A little well directed and applied pressure never hurt any dog.

4dabirds · Post by **4dabirds** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:51 pm

You have to take into consideration that dogs are place oriented. They only understand what they have learned in context of where they learned it. It would be a huge mistake to correct a dog in the situation that your dog is in. The reason being that your dog has not learned that this is the same game, therefore he would not understand the reason for correction and worse may associate the correction with birds and possibly start to blink birds. To let a dog at this age and ability hunt without having a mechanism for teaching may allow the dog to teach itself that chasing birds is o.k. .As far as the dog being whoa trained you have to take into consideration. motivation as well as distraction. Birds are the dogs greatest motivation so it stands to reason that they will be the dogs greatest distraction . If the dog will not whoa when commanded on a bird the dog is not fully whoa trained. Being the dog is not fully whoa trained using the collar at this time would be a mistake. So that brings you back to motivation as a factor in correction . If the dog has been collar conditioned to avoid stimulation by complying to a command the correction must be perceived by the dog as significant enough to stop the dog from pursuing its greatest motivation.So in my opinion in this situation you need to show the dog what you want, in this new picture to the dog ,without using correction. Also you should be training the dog in a controlled environment on a pigeon pole and stop to flush drills with a launcher so that the dog gets that picture in his mind as well . This way if the dog moves a bird and sees it he will stop in these situations as well. Hunting season is a great time to train it would be best to nail down all the problems as soon as possible before they become ingrained in the dog. Good luck.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:58 am

Some dog's have more pointing instinct than others. Some point staunchly from the time they are pups. Some NEVER do point reliably.

You've done everything to show this dog what you want, including whoaing her in the woods. Whoaing a dog on birds never works; they must point on their own.

Take it for what internet advice is worth, but I'd whoa the dog when you see her road the bird, pick her up and give her a good shake repeating "Whoa!" and set her back where she first winded the bird. Youngsters can be trying.

I had an old setter that lived to be about 13. He was a bird finding son of a gun, my son's pet. A pointer, he was not. Until his dieing day, despite shaking, enough electricity to light Chicago, cursing, and tears, he never was a reliable pointing dog. But could he find birds.

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:07 am

Hunting season is a great time to train it would be best to nail down all the problems as soon as possible before they become ingrained in the dog

Thats the worry.
I think we would have to do something extremely stupid to have this hound blinking birds. I'm with Gonehuntin a little shake up might not hurt. Also gamebirds in the yard followed by some controlled situations in the woods might help. Once the vegetation starts to die off it will be easier to see grouse under the pines & use it as an opportunity for a training session. From what I'm seeing he wants to get too close. Launchers and pigeons/gamebirds in the woods might not hurt either?

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:03 am

I was gonna stay out of this but I am going to chime in...I think "hunting" is a great time to train a young dog if the dog is "hunting" and you are not. A loaded gun requires 100% of your attention and so does a loaded bird busting 1 year old dog. Timing is everything when you make a correction and that is hard to do if you are giving any consideration to shooting a bird. If you want to hunt the dog and let it bump and chase for a year, its a different argument amongst trainers but many go that route. However, when you start to 'break" a dog out then it should be stuck to...IMO

I use wild birds and a blank pistol alot during the season it allows me to use the natural setting and keep my attention where it belongs, on the dog.

There is the "Ben O Williams" defense, he sort of describes his dogs just learning naturally..and they do. They break on shot, and he is a man who has shot thousands of birds and has the patience and discipline to allow wild birds to train his dogs by not shooting birds and rewarding the dog when things don't go just right. He and his 1 billion Hungarian Partridges

I argue that most of us do not have such discipline and or that many birds for opportunities and reps.

I would switch to some thrown down or launched game birds with the dog on a check cord with a flank hitch or pinch collar whichever point of contact you have been using, and then transition to your wild birds the same way and do not shoot until the dog is reliable to your satisfaction.

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:28 am

Quill

Forget the pigeons for now, forget the launchers for now, forget cashing in your hunting coupon for now, coming home empty handed is ok with a young dog like yours, just let the dog go and let him/her be a young dog. If and when he points a wild bird and holds it until you get to him then go ahead and shoot it. Western Blue and Ruff grouse are not the best games birds for pointing dogs because many times you and the dog see them before they flush. A young dog can't resist the temptation of a bird in sight.

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:32 pm

Western Blue and Ruff grouse are not the best games birds for pointing dogs because many times you and the dog see them before they flush. A young dog can't resist the temptation of a bird in sight.

You got that right. He has pointed and held a few Blues. So he does know what needs to be done. He goes back and forth but mostly back. I think you fellers are right with resist the shot. I was under the impression as long as they are on point whethered whoa'd or not go ahead and shoot. My mistake

troutbum13 · Post by **troutbum13** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:01 pm

Thom,
I think we hunt the same birds along the wasatch and my dog struggled with forest grouse a bit too.

did you woah train with an ecollar? I found that teaching stop to flush with the eollar really helped. I could still use pigeons but b/c we were working on the upwind side of the birds he did not know if they were pigeons or wild birds. I would walk him in upwind of a bird and launch the bird when we were close enough for it to be exciting, when he tried to chase I would apply stim until he stopped( this was all taught in the yard on the woah table first)

Once he was stopping on pigeons, I moved him to wild birds. If he ripped a bird I would wait until the bird was in flight and then stim until he stopped. This only took a couple of times for him to get it. Once he realized if the bird flies my fun is over he staunched up in anticipation of the flush.

Never stim while the bird is on the ground, that is between the bird and the dog, but once the bird is in the air correct as required.

not an expert but that seemed to help for my pup....

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:41 pm

Yah, if your in the Wasatch you know what I'm talking about. With pigeons I used remote launchers and once he hit scent and didn't point I would say nothing & pop up the bird. We did this to the point of; he hits scent, points, I walk in kick around, launch pigeon, shoot pigeon, walk back to hound & release with deadbird for the retrieve. It became ridiculously boring for him and me. Get in the woods and he looses his freaking mind. Bought gamebirds maybe but they are going to have that pen raised scent to'em and me handling so I have my doubt's. He is e-collar broke as well and I have started stim after the bird is in the air when he's chasing. I need to be quicker with the stim though, I have gun and usually a camera around my neck so I have been slow to correct. I need to get my boy out there with me to handle the gun

4dabirds · Post by **4dabirds** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:39 pm

Chukar12 wrote:I was gonna stay out of this but I am going to chime in...I think "hunting" is a great time to train a young dog if the dog is "hunting" and you are not. A loaded gun requires 100% of your attention and so does a loaded bird busting 1 year old dog. Timing is everything when you make a correction and that is hard to do if you are giving any consideration to shooting a bird. If you want to hunt the dog and let it bump and chase for a year, its a different argument amongst trainers but many go that route. However, when you start to 'break" a dog out then it should be stuck to...IMO

I use wild birds and a blank pistol alot during the season it allows me to use the natural setting and keep my attention where it belongs, on the dog.

There is the "Ben O Williams" defense, he sort of describes his dogs just learning naturally..and they do. They break on shot, and he is a man who has shot thousands of birds and has the patience and discipline to allow wild birds to train his dogs by not shooting birds and rewarding the dog when things don't go just right. He and his 1 billion Hungarian Partridges I argue that most of us do not have such discipline and or that many birds for opportunities and reps.

I would switch to some thrown down or launched game birds with the dog on a check cord with a flank hitch or pinch collar whichever point of contact you have been using, and then transition to your wild birds the same way and do not shoot until the dog is reliable to your satisfaction.

+1 0n this

gonehuntin' wrote: A pointer, he was not. Until his dieing day, despite shaking, enough electricity to light Chicago, cursing, and tears, he never was a reliable pointing dog. But could he find birds.

Never questioned the method of training ? Had to be the dog!

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:55 pm

Never questioned the method of training ? Had to be the dog!

Stopping on scent and pointing are two different things.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:37 am

4dabirds wrote:
Never questioned the method of training ? Had to be the dog!

You're new to this and very inexperienced. Not all dog's are the same. Some pointers don't point, some lab's don't retrieve.

There is a HUGE difference between TEACHING a dog to stop at first scent, and a dog pointing through natural ability.

With an ecollar, you can teach an opossum to stop at first scent, but he isn't reliable at it and won't do it naturally.

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:39 am

I believe this has a lot to do with the species we are hunting at the moment. Forest Grouse Blue's and Ruff's roost in the tree's and come down to feed early to mid morning on the forest floor. They really don't move around much for the most part. Mountain terrain around here in the early season is loaded with perennial type vegetation and with the drop in temps at night it creates dew on the vegetation with humidity high when the temps rise again. There is very little air movement as we try to hunt in good weather as our mountains are notorious for quick moving thunder/lightning storms that come in an instant. Horrible scenting conditions really for the most part. A pup is usually right on top of the bird before he catches scent and with any curious movement he sees or busts the bird. I talked with a friend of mine that went from Springers to Setters last night. He's owned Setters for tens yrs now. He says his Setters still struggle with these Forest Grouse. However he has one Setter that I consider to be the best Chukar dog I've seen. I've personally witnessed this dog to be on point out a mile and a quarter in rough Chukar terrain and held the birds until we got there. Later in the season scenting conditons will improve with death of the vegetation so I'm probably asking for a miracle at the moment. I'll hang up the gun for now & use the forest as a training ground with the hopes of returning later with better results.

4dabirds · Post by **4dabirds** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 am

gonehuntin' wrote:Some dog's have more pointing instinct than others. Some point staunchly from the time they are pups. Some NEVER do point reliably.

You've done everything to show this dog what you want, including whoaing her in the woods. Whoaing a dog on birds never works; they must point on their own.

Take it for what internet advice is worth, but I'd whoa the dog when you see her road the bird, pick her up and give her a good shake repeating "Whoa!" and set her back where she first winded the bird. Youngsters can be trying.

I had an old setter that lived to be about 13. He was a bird finding son of a gun, my son's pet. A pointer, he was not. Until his dieing day, despite shaking, enough electricity to light Chicago, cursing, and tears, he never was a reliable pointing dog. But could he find birds.

Excuse me a new trainer for questioning the method of shaking and using enough electricity to light Chicago as a method to get a dog to point

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:00 am

4dabirds wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:Some dog's have more pointing instinct than others. Some point staunchly from the time they are pups. Some NEVER do point reliably.

You've done everything to show this dog what you want, including whoaing her in the woods. Whoaing a dog on birds never works; they must point on their own.

Take it for what internet advice is worth, but I'd whoa the dog when you see her road the bird, pick her up and give her a good shake repeating "Whoa!" and set her back where she first winded the bird. Youngsters can be trying.

I had an old setter that lived to be about 13. He was a bird finding son of a gun, my son's pet. A pointer, he was not. Until his dieing day, despite shaking, enough electricity to light Chicago, cursing, and tears, he never was a reliable pointing dog. But could he find birds.
Excuse me a new trainer for questioning the method of shaking and using enough electricity to light Chicago as a method to get a dog to point

That's OK, you'll learn!

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:05 am

QuillGordon wrote: There is very little air movement as we try to hunt in good weather as our mountains are notorious for quick moving thunder/lightning storms that come in an instant. Horrible scenting conditions really for the most part.

Generally in the mountains, the air is drifting down the mountains early morning, about 10:00 a.m. switches and comes up the mountain, and again in the afternoon, swings and drifts down.

Try to work the wind. Stay below where you think the birds are in the a.m., come in from on top later.

I've never hunted blues with a dog, but I can't believe they are any spookier or harder to hold than a ruf. I may be wrong.

Here's the thing, if the dog points and creeps in, it MUST be corrected. If it points and the bird launches, that's not the dog's fault.

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:06 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
4dabirds wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:Some dog's have more pointing instinct than others. Some point staunchly from the time they are pups. Some NEVER do point reliably.

You've done everything to show this dog what you want, including whoaing her in the woods. Whoaing a dog on birds never works; they must point on their own.

Take it for what internet advice is worth, but I'd whoa the dog when you see her road the bird, pick her up and give her a good shake repeating "Whoa!" and set her back where she first winded the bird. Youngsters can be trying.

I had an old setter that lived to be about 13. He was a bird finding son of a gun, my son's pet. A pointer, he was not. Until his dieing day, despite shaking, enough electricity to light Chicago, cursing, and tears, he never was a reliable pointing dog. But could he find birds.
Excuse me a new trainer for questioning the method of shaking and using enough electricity to light Chicago as a method to get a dog to point
That's OK, you'll learn!

gonehuntin was using a literary tool called "exaggeration for education",

I smiled at what he said because I know how he trains.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:14 pm

I hope a lesson is learned even if George Hickox or Rick Smith hasn't told us its the way.

Ezzy

4dabirds · Post by **4dabirds** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:53 pm

QuillGordon wrote:I believe this has a lot to do with the species we are hunting at the moment. Forest Grouse Blue's and Ruff's roost in the tree's and come down to feed early to mid morning on the forest floor. They really don't move around much for the most part. Mountain terrain around here in the early season is loaded with perennial type vegetation and with the drop in temps at night it creates dew on the vegetation with humidity high when the temps rise again. There is very little air movement as we try to hunt in good weather as our mountains are notorious for quick moving thunder/lightning storms that come in an instant. Horrible scenting conditions really for the most part. A pup is usually right on top of the bird before he catches scent and with any curious movement he sees or busts the bird. I talked with a friend of mine that went from Springers to Setters last night. He's owned Setters for tens yrs now. He says his Setters still struggle with these Forest Grouse. However he has one Setter that I consider to be the best Chukar dog I've seen. I've personally witnessed this dog to be on point out a mile and a quarter in rough Chukar terrain and held the birds until we got there. Later in the season scenting conditons will improve with death of the vegetation so I'm probably asking for a miracle at the moment. I'll hang up the gun for now & use the forest as a training ground with the hopes of returning later with better results.
I think you will be happy you took a step back it may just take a few reps with a check. Cord for the dog to understand the new picture.

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:46 pm

Ah he!! I quit, anybody know where I can get a leggy Fox Red Lab with upland lines that will finish out around 80-85lbs

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:03 am

QuillGordon wrote:Ah he!! I quit, anybody know where I can get a leggy Fox Red Lab with upland lines that will finish out around 80-85lbs

Foc Red, you're talking my favorite color of Lab now!!!!!!!!!

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:27 am

Labs are ideal for hunting these early season Forest Chickens. Just hard to keep up in all the deadfall. Yesterday we had a Ruff that he busted, seen where it flew, which was a tree. Took my hound back to point of contact & whoa'd him. Threw a rock at the bird it flushed from the tree. He stayed put. Headed in the direction of the bird, hound gets birdy working the cover and does a flash point and then starts moving again, I whoa him. Walk around and kick the surrounding brush, nothing. I release him, he goes up underneath some pines & I see the Ruff run out and the hound bolts after it, the bird flushes to a unknown pine. Gave him a little shake and put him back in his place of contact and whoa'd him again. I kick the surrounding brush as if something else might be in there and released. No more birds the rest of the day. I have a headache

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:07 am

QuillGordon wrote:I have a headache

Just bring some Excedrin. and a Pint for later.

adogslife · Post by **adogslife** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:08 am

You have a pup with plenty of drive
If he's pointing and flushing, let him,he'll learn by the end of the season not to move or he looses
If he's down right chasing for the fun of it, he needs correction
Right now he's still learning in the best classroom there is
It's my opinion he is picking upon your frustration
Relax
Enjoy

Break him at the end of the season

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:09 am

QuillGordon wrote: I have a headache

You're going to need a bigger bottle of excedrin. Wait until you work him on pheasant!!

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:42 pm

Three solid points today and a limit of Hun's in the bag. Go figure. No Advil tonight more like champagne (Budweiser)
Pics to follow

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:29 pm

That's good to hear. Patience is the name of the game.

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:46 pm

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:02 pm

Boy you take nice photo's. What are you using for a camera? BTW, I wouldn't worry about the dog, just keep hunting him.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:17 pm

Now them's some good pictures right there!

Charlie

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:07 pm

Thanks
Panasonic Lumix DMC FZ 40