NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

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GUNDOGS
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NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by GUNDOGS » Sun May 29, 2011 12:59 pm

We bought 2 more launchers when we went to florida to use in training with JERSEY..my question is can someone tell me the best way to set them up (how far apart) and give some advice on using mulitple launchers in a training set up.also any do's and dont's would be great too..thanks...ruth :D
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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by bwjohn » Sun May 29, 2011 4:45 pm

launchers are a great aid for training.

never let the dog get right over top of the launchers, can really scare your dog.

as far as setting them apart from each other, it depends. I generally set mine far enough apart so that the dog will calm down a little bit and start really hunting again, so it depends on your dog. Also, if he is young they need to be far enough apart so that when he is chasing a bird or something that he will not run over top of the other launcher.


another good setup, when the dog gets older, is to put them together. launch the first bird, make them stand and then launch the second bird to really push the steadiness.

good luck,brandon

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by volraider » Sun May 29, 2011 5:30 pm

ruth,

i set my launchers up a good distance apart. i work on commands in between birds. i teach the dog to stand still (whoa) and i work on recall and handling. i always hold onto the checkcord in case the dog breaks and the launchers don't release the bird. launchers will fail either batteries or not set right. with your puppy you need to launch the bird when she's in the area of the launcher up wind not in the scent cone and work on stop to flush. she doesn't have to point every launcher for you to have a successful workout. don't pop the launcher when you think she should be pointing only launch the bird after she has established point and she moves. popping launchers at first scent causes false pointing. make sure you let the launchers set for 5 or 10 minutes to give time for the scent to get out.

brian

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by GUNDOGS » Sun May 29, 2011 5:59 pm

thanks Brandon and Brian for the help...if she works upto the launcher and is too close when she points but is steady how should i handle that? because when she has gotten too close to a bird i planted in cover its easy i just flush it or it flushes on its own but the launcher may scare her if shes too close and it is set off right?..so i shouldnt pop the launcher when she points and is steady at all? i should let her stay there and when she moves THEN pop it? ..i will definitley use a check cord for the reasons you said, thanks..any and all tips are appreciated cause im taking her out tomorrow and its funny that im so nervous, nothing makes me more nervous then training with electronics i just get nervous of things not going right and it messin her up :? by the way i have the D.T remote launchers if that helps any, thanks..ruth
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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by volraider » Sun May 29, 2011 6:32 pm

if she works upto the launcher and is too close when she points but is steady how should i handle that? because when she has gotten too close to a bird i planted in cover its easy i just flush it or it flushes on its own but the launcher may scare her if shes too close and it is set off right?

You don't let her get to close to the launcher, launch the bird before she gets to close and work on stop to flush. If she's roads in launch the bird, if she is to close launch the bird, if she points and moves launch the bird then stop her with the checkcord. Don't jerk her around on the checkcord just let it stop her. She's still young and you do not want to put to much pressure on her right now. I would intro her to the launcher by taking her upwind of the launcher with a bird in it and whoa her while she is not smelling the bird. Launch the bird then let her go up and smell the launcher and around it. Then work her cross wind into the next launcher and she should point it.
Last edited by volraider on Sun May 29, 2011 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by birddogger » Sun May 29, 2011 6:45 pm

He is already pointing, so I don't think I would use the whoa command when he started getting close to the launcher. Personally, I would wait until he was a little older to start any steadiness or any real formal training, but that's just me.

Charlie
Edited: volraider, I read your post again and I think I misunderstood you. I think you were advising to whoa the pup one time just to introduce the launcher. That is different....Sorry.

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by Trainer8307 » Sun May 29, 2011 8:50 pm

You can accomplish many things with remote launchers. My posts tend to get a little long so I am going to try to be brief.

First, I NEVER work a dog on launchers that isn't on a check cord. That way, you control how close the dog gets to the launcher and from what direction. I only work a dog on one bird per training session with the exception of pups. I may use two birds and I will space those about 50 feet apart so I can work them right up the line. It is tempting to keep putting them on birds in these situations but I have found it best to make short sessions and do it daily.

A second suggestion is with a green pup I will on occasion use a caged bird and work the pup into it with the launcher several feet behind it. They point the scent of the caged bird but they can chase the pigeon coming out of the launcher. Be careful, the good ones may not be tricked by that setup. They will know the caged bird is still there. If that happens, stop using the caged bird. The big thing you should be cautious of with launchers is a pup or older dog can get slapped in the face from a bird coming out of a launcher. Then, you may have a problem you can't overcome.

Multiple trap setups are great later when the dog is steady to increase style after flush. I put three pigeons in the large launchers to simulate a covey rise later on but that's another story. Good luck.

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by bwjohn » Sun May 29, 2011 9:29 pm

by close to the launchers, I mean an yard or two. i have actually seen some dogs get hit with a bird out of a launcher, not what you want to happen.

I would launch as soon as you can tell the bird has scent, just have to know your dog a little bit for that.

I wouldn't use whoa, let the dog establish point first, whoa is to slow him or stop him after that.

brandon

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by GUNDOGS » Mon May 30, 2011 5:49 am

Thanks guys, i will give some background on her and let you know how much training and birds killed over her to help with any advice, shes 5 months old, shes performed entire hunting senarios very well...i know my pup VERY well and she can handle SOME pressure but i do know better than to put too much on her and i do know what she can handle..i know this pup VERY WELL seeing as im with her every waking moment :D to me shes not a typical pup..ive been around and seen pups 5 months and even training with others with pups almost a year old they cant believe how old she is and how well she performs and handles with total cooperation.. shes has been exposed to about 110 birds so far in training (pigeons, chukar and pheasant), is VERY familiar with gunfire..out of the 110 birds 32 birds have been shot for her she has retrieved them all and i would say 25 of them to hand the other 7 she has dropped about 5 feet from me but were working on that ( i keep a log on her, i told you i was obsessive with organization :mrgreen: )..she has been in a blind for training 3 different times and retrieved a dummy to hand each time with decoys set up with no issue..also WHOA is not an issue with her, this pup will WHOA anytime, any place if the command is given..my husband has WHOA'D her while in full pursuit of a squirrel and she dont question it whatsoever..i will definitely be keeping her on the checkcord seeing as i swear by the checkcord and definitley believe it is needed for controlling the situation especially given the info on the launchers and how the mishaps can occur (thanks brian)..she has her NA PRIZE 1 and we are working towards her FDJ title coming up very soon.. thanks for all the advice and any other tips ect would be appreciated..thanks...ruth
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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by GUNDOGS » Tue May 31, 2011 5:05 am

Training went good, but i need some practise with the launchers :? i will get the hang of it..i was alone and working jersey with the check cord and the remote ect so next time hubby will be coming to lend a hand..or two :lol: ..jersey did great..the first time the launcher went off she was a bit surprised, heck it scared me and i knew it was coming :oops: :lol: ..i love working with jersey, she is so patient with me and makes training her so darn easy..after talking to her breeder brian, i will put the launchers farther apart thursday when we go back out..because this is all new (working with launchers) i would love any other tips or advice anyone may have..thanks so much....ruth :D
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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by Retiredbirddogman » Tue May 31, 2011 5:45 am

George Hickox recommends planting a "scent bird" for the dog to point and then put the trap several yards away from the scent bird. This helps avoid the potential problem of the trap scaring the dog and will give the dog better scent than the bird in the trap will. I had them point the trap for years, but have recently used the scenario reommended by Mr. Hickox and have found it to be a good change. Of course, this requires you to make sure the dog is not able to "catch" the scent bird.
Good luck.

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by GUNDOGS » Tue May 31, 2011 6:35 am

Retiredbirddogman wrote:George Hickox recommends planting a "scent bird" for the dog to point and then put the trap several yards away from the scent bird. This helps avoid the potential problem of the trap scaring the dog and will give the dog better scent than the bird in the trap will. I had them point the trap for years, but have recently used the scenario reommended by Mr. Hickox and have found it to be a good change. Of course, this requires you to make sure the dog is not able to "catch" the scent bird.
Good luck.
thanks, i will look up this method..i follow alot of George Hickox advice in training..thanks again for the help :D ....ruth
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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by RayGubernat » Tue May 31, 2011 9:11 am

Gundogs -

First thing you need to do is to practice with the launcher yourself, without the dog. Some launchers take a bit longer to actuate than others. This is partly an electronic delay and part mechanical thrower delay. To get the timing right... which is absolutely critical...you need to know exactly how long the delay is between your mashing the button down and the bird flying away. My launchers have a feature which allows me to dial dwn the launching force which is great for young or sensitive dogs as it is less likely to get starteled by the slam crahs of the trap opening, but the lowered force means that it takes longer for it to open and longer for the bird to get out of there.

You need to, as mentioned previously, work the dog on a checkcord until it is reasonalbly reliable. This will help givbe you contro in case your timing is alittle off, or the dog does something unexpected.

If the dog does end up pointing too close, and to me, anything closer than about three yards or meters is too close...my suggestion is to physically pick the dog up under its chest and waist, walk back several steps and gently place the dog down...front end first. Then with one hand between her legs, first raise up and then gently lower her back end to the ground. With her butt in the air, push forward gently to stiffen the dog's front end and then gently lower the back end down. Finish off with a gentle, but firm, forward push as the dog's legs touch the ground. This will encourage the dog to stiffen up and resist, solidifying the point. Say nothing at all to the dog all during this process. Let the bird scent do the talking.

RayG

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by GUNDOGS » Tue May 31, 2011 1:06 pm

RayGubernat wrote:Gundogs -

First thing you need to do is to practice with the launcher yourself, without the dog. Some launchers take a bit longer to actuate than others. This is partly an electronic delay and part mechanical thrower delay. To get the timing right... which is absolutely critical...you need to know exactly how long the delay is between your mashing the button down and the bird flying away. My launchers have a feature which allows me to dial dwn the launching force which is great for young or sensitive dogs as it is less likely to get starteled by the slam crahs of the trap opening, but the lowered force means that it takes longer for it to open and longer for the bird to get out of there.

You need to, as mentioned previously, work the dog on a checkcord until it is reasonalbly reliable. This will help givbe you contro in case your timing is alittle off, or the dog does something unexpected.

If the dog does end up pointing too close, and to me, anything closer than about three yards or meters is too close...my suggestion is to physically pick the dog up under its chest and waist, walk back several steps and gently place the dog down...front end first. Then with one hand between her legs, first raise up and then gently lower her back end to the ground. With her butt in the air, push forward gently to stiffen the dog's front end and then gently lower the back end down. Finish off with a gentle, but firm, forward push as the dog's legs touch the ground. This will encourage the dog to stiffen up and resist, solidifying the point. Say nothing at all to the dog all during this process. Let the bird scent do the talking.

RayG
Thanks RayG, i have been practicing with them for about a week without her before i brought her out..i was seriously shaking when i took her out on them, am i weird or what???? i definitley will always use the checkcord and thanks for the repositioning suggestion if shes too close to the launcher too...ruth
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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by Ridge-Point » Tue May 31, 2011 2:22 pm

I like to let my launchers sit for a little while to build a scent cone.

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by GUNDOGS » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:09 am

Ridge-Point wrote:I like to let my launchers sit for a little while to build a scent cone.
Thanks Ridge-point, i let them sit for about 10 minutes before i brought her out..is that long enough? thanks...ruth
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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by Vman » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:38 am

Don`t be a afraid to pull some feathers off the birds and let them drift down wind from the release creating scent, especially on calm days. wild bird leaves all kinds of scent too work with. birds in launchers, especially new launchers won`t have much scent to them. Especially as the grass gets taller through summer.
When using Launchers you are not trying to see if the dog can find game, it is what he does after he makes game, so give him somtheing to work with. :wink:

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by AmyinTX » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:10 am

Hi,

I'm VERY new here. I just rescued a EP 2 weeks ago and he is so much fun! We have been going to the Dog park every morning and he loves looking at birds, and trying to catch them. I a reading about these "launchers" do you use real birds? I don't hunt, and I don't want to kill anything..but I want to make my dog happy. Is there any artificial "birds" or exercises I can do with my dog to keep him happy? Thanks!




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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by sigav8r » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:47 pm

I'm right around the corner from you (Flower Mound). I have a German Shorthaired Pointer my wife and I rescued back in December. She will be a hunter and is already a pretty good one. Anyways, I have a launcher if you ever want to see what is involved. If you're not going to hunt your dog, it's not necessary. They have a couple of retrieving "toys". Look up DOKKEN bird dummy. You can find them at Academy sometimes. I actually got mine from Sports Authority in Denton. Also, take your dog to a local pond and let him/her retrieve from the pond. I took mine to the pond in our community and she was hesitant at first, but was swimming out 30-40 yards in 10 minutes and bringing her dummy back. Any questions, feel free to ask.

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by GUNDOGS » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:11 am

its great to see people that give birddogs a second chance threw adoption..thats great if you hunt them but if not it sure is fun for them to swim, retrieve and socialize either way..post lots of pics we all love seeing them :D .....ruth
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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by sigav8r » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:55 pm

Here's my girl Lucka doing some water retrieves. This was her first experience swimming and was making 40 yard retrieves by the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Udt8LoJ ... ata_player

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by Hattrick » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:09 pm

you can use live homers that would make ur dogs real happy:)

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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by GUNDOGS » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:46 am

sigav8r wrote:Here's my girl Lucka doing some water retrieves. This was her first experience swimming and was making 40 yard retrieves by the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Udt8LoJ ... ata_player
loved the video, nice retrieve, Lucka sure went far out and looks like she was born to swim..thanks for sharing, post more videos for us to see :D ...ruth
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Re: NEED HELP WITH LAUNCHERS...

Post by sigav8r » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:29 pm

Thanks Ruth! I'll try and get some more. She needs quite a bit more work, but at least she likes retrieving.

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