Wild Bird Summer Camp

[Crosspoint]

I've heard folks talk about taking young dogs to places like North or South Dakota for summer camp. The point being that a pup can get very high levels of wild bird contact, and the weather is not as brutal as the deep South in July / August.

I've not yet had the pleasure to travel to the Dakotas or Nebraska, but would be very appreciative of some information on a place of two I could run a couple of pups with a high expectation of wild bird contact. Not looking to shoot anything, just looking for the experience of something other than pen raised birds.

Any advice from this group would be appreciated.

[Vizsla Vince]

Check this website out
http://www.sdgfp.info/Wildlife/hunting/ ... ionMap.htm

This is a link to the South Dakota DNR pheasant distribution map. Lots of good info on this site.
As far as how good an idea it is to expose young pups to wild birds, I'lll be watching this post, too. I'm working on my first gun dog myself.
So, all you veterans, help us pups out!!!

[original mngsp]

Wild birds teach a young bird dog way more than pen raised birds in a setup situation. That is one of the hardest things for most of us amateurs that live in urban or suburban settings, getting dogs on wild birds.

[AHGSP]

Crosspoint,

Where are you located at?? Never know, you might have better options closer to home in the right areas....

[Ayres]

I know a lot of people like to utilize wild birds and I understand the benefits (wild birds flush quicker, faster and harder)... but for training a dog I really like being able to set up a controlled situation so I end up with the exact training experience needed for the day.

If you're "happy timing" then finding a bunch of wild birds could be fun and very rewarding for a young pup.

[Vizsla Vince]

I know a lot of people like to utilize wild birds and I understand the benefits (wild birds flush quicker, faster and harder)... but for training a dog I really like being able to set up a controlled situation so I end up with the exact training experience needed for the day.

If you're "happy timing" then finding a bunch of wild birds could be fun and very rewarding for a young pup.

I tend to agree. Although my experience with gun dogs is limited, my life experience has taught me htat if something can go wrong, it will. It would be a perfect shame to ruin a perfect dog with an ornery wild pheasant digging his spurs in pup's side. We spend way too much time & money on these dogs to ruin them with unknown variables.

IMO, wild bird training would be a fine activity if you already have trained pup on live birds in a controlled environment, and know a little better what pup can handle & what he can't.

It took only one night for my fa6ther-in-law to ruin his brittany from fetching, and only one day for his best friend's kids to ruin a springer, making him gun shy with cap guns.

BTW, y'all are welcome to correct my errors.

Just a pup!

[Wagonmaster]

It took only one night for my fa6ther-in-law to ruin his brittany from fetching, and only one day for his best friend's kids to ruin a springer, making him gun shy with cap guns.

BTW, y'all are welcome to correct my errors.

we all make errors in training, even the best pros. the trick of it is to work through a method that does step by step, so if at a particular step you mess up, you can take the dog back a step or two to something it will do and does know, and then work forward again. there is also a knack to knowing when to push the dog a little, to get it past a particular fear/phobia.

i would bet the brittany and the springer could have been straightened out. just takes time, perserverance and patience. and it is best to have a good base to start with. personally, i like to build a great deal of bird desire in young dogs, as the first step in training. that way, there is always something positive to take the dog back to if there is a problem in training. delmar's "happy timing" is a good example.

[NDBDHunter]

I've just moved from ND and I know that on ND public ground there are dates you cannot run/train dogs between. I believe the dates are 15 April to 15 August. But on private land, there are no restriction???? Check the reg's. But after 15 Aug you can run your dog on public land with the exception of PLOTS grounds which opens 01 Sept. The young sharptails generally hold really well for a pointing dog. In the spring Huns also hold well.

I've heard that there are some pro trainers that come to the Dakotas that bring dogs here to work for $

I live just across the border into MN and since the snow left, about 3 weeks ago, I've been running my dogs in ND on wild birds. Its a great experience for young dogs, but if your trying to break a dog to wing and shot it would be best to do that in a controlled environment before you allow them the freedom of the prairie. Maybe with an e-collar you could reach out and touch'em but, if you're like me and not use e-collars, stuff happens outside of your control and I end up running alot to chase a dog who failed to stop on a wild flush and refuses to come. You gotta do what you gotta do.


I let my pup be a pup for her first year, chasing whatever she wanted to. She flushed well over 100 sharptails and Huns. The second year I checkcorded her into a bird or two and now she points'em if she smells'em. I think she's a much better prospect as a Gun dog then if I would have put pressure on her at a young age. She has so much confidence in the field it shows in her run and style.

Make a trip here in the early fall and you can still take advantage of those young sharptails. There is so much public ground to hunt you couldn't hunt it all in a life time. Many people flock to particular areas in ND and SD, such as the south west for pheasants but there are birds on some kind (Sharptails, Huns, Ruffed grouse and Pheasants) in every part of the state.

[Wagonmaster]

working dogs on the prairies on wild birds is great for the dogs. training starts July 16, when it becomes legal. they are training on sharptail grouse for the most part though, not pheasants so much. young sharptails will hold very well for a dog, and will fly well enough that a dog cannot catch them.

i don't know the situation on public land. all the trainers i know have permission on private land. it is not very difficult to get permission. a great area to go look would be the Towner/Rugby area, or further north near the Can. border.

it is not exactly easy to do on foot though. most of the summer trainers are on horseback. it is not that the walking is that difficult. the prairie is nice and flat. but the birds are where they are and are not where they are not. they are not just everywhere. you have to cover some country to learn where they are and to get dogs into them.

wild birds teach a lesson planted birds just can't. they teach a dog to point well off the birds. cause the wild ones will not tolerate any pressure from the dog.

[AHGSP]

If in real good Woodcock or Grouse country, they make for excellent training as well and tend to be in tighter woods where the feet will serve you well if you don't have access to horses.

[Wa Chukar Hunter]

I am going to summer camp this year - We start training on wild birds anytime after the 30th of July - but only after the spear grass has dropped.

Training camp is a great investment of money - in that dogs will be exposed to more birds in the 3 months than anywhere else.

I will be sharing a camp with Lou Gleber - for me it is a great opportunity as a young pro to learn the ropes from a very good old pro.

Keith Hickam

[DGFavor]

Crosspoint - Yes, 100%, go do it. Mother nature will bring out the best in your dog. What man made concoction in "birddogdom" could possibly compare to the finding and handling of real birds??

Keith - Where were you this spring? Didn't see ya' at any of the dog games. I saw a pretty nice runnin' Lou-Ellen at the Oregon SD and Nat'l Am. Chukar SD trials. (Is that a bird crate on the front of your 4 wheeler on your website? Oh the shame of it all... )

100% poultry free,
Doug
www.hbv.netkennel.com

[Wagonmaster]

I was at Booneville earlier this year. The Southland Championship runs there, and the pointer/setter people have been there for some time.

There were many great photos and mementoes on the wall, pointer, GSP, Britts, Irish setter.

One of the ones of note (going from memory) was a saying by John S. Gates, probably a little outdated, but valid sentiment:

"If anybody but God had a hand in planting the birds for the trial, I don't want anything to do with the trial."

We use planted birds nowadays because we have to, they are what we have, and because they are good for the necessary yard training. But for training quality bird dogs there is nothing like wild birds.

[DGFavor]

John -
"If anybody but God had a hand in planting the birds for the trial, I don't want anything to do with the trial."


That is great! My sentiments exactly and I'd include training in that as well. I haven't bought a training bird in 5 or 6 years. The only plan I have when I go training, since I don't know where the birds are, is to keep gently bending that dog between 10 & 2 and hopefully find birds. If we get a find, try and get the other dogs in for a back. That's it...my complete training strategy. Not sure if it works well for trials but I think it makes bird dogs. As you mentioned, juvenile sharpies are the best for steadying up a dog...not uncommon to get 5 or 6 rises out of one bunch as they commonly get up in ones and twos.

The sharpies are dancing on my place now. Hopefully we'll get a good hatch.

Good quote!

[Vizsla Vince]

Zoomie's been training himself on birds @ the f.p. in my neighborhood.
There's a large abandoned gravel yard right next to the fp that we visit. There are these little birds that look like sand pipers, & they zip along the ground & nest in this field. The birds let Zoomie get within maybe 25 feet, & then " pip pip pip" they go running off! These birds have been teaching Zoomie to slow down alot, & point.
These little guys have a pretty cool trick, too. They nest in the middle of the field, no cover. So, when Zoomie gets too close to a nest, one of them will flop around on the ground, like he's got a broken wing, to distract the dog, & lead him away from the nest. As soon as zoomie gets close enough to the "wounded" bird, He'll get up & fly away! Very cool to watch!

[ezzy333]

Vince,

Those are Killdeer. Always around in the summer and love to nest on gravel where you can't hardly tell their eggs from the gravel.

Ezzy

[Vizsla Vince]

Thanks, Ezzy. I didn't know what that little dance was until yesterday when I brought it up to my mom. She told me about the ol' bait & switch.

[Wagonmaster]

when i was a kid, a cousin and i, walking through the woods in No. Minn., came across a whipperwill. they nest on the ground like the killdeer, and do the same "broken wing" trick. but they are rare to see, especially during the day, and a very unique looking bird. heavy mustache.

on the killdeer, i gotta tell you they do not do much for a dog. maybe get it interested in flitty things. but dogs do not equate them with game birds species, and eventually learn to ignore them.

[Vizsla Vince]

John,

Thanks for the heads up. I'm not hanging my hat on killdeer as a be all to my training. I do appreciate that Zoomie is teaching himself to slow down when spotting something instead of just charging like an idiot. I kind of see it as similar to a wing on a string. Just helps him pace himself.

[Ayres]

My vizsla still stops in the yard when he spots robins on the ground. He never scents them and really could care less about them, but they're a bird and they're on the ground so he stops and watches them until they fly off or until he loses interest (usually about a second and a half).

You're right, Vince, that tweeties aren't the best training tool; but then again we don't use them as tools. We just observe our dogs interacting with their wildlife surroundings, and that's never a bad thing.

[Vizsla Vince]

Just alot of fun to watch

[Wa Chukar Hunter]

I didn't get back from TX until April. I ran in a small trial at Great Falls - I got a 3rd in Open All Age with my dog Tanner. My pointer Man (well not mine anymore -sold him) Took 1st in Open AA derby and I had a 3rd in Open SD Derby with another friends dog.

The llewellin you saw run - she is Storm - my dog Tanner's older sister.

[DGFavor]

Sheesh Keith, Never noticed the change in location - Cascade, MT?! Wow, that's nice. Would have liked to run up and support that trial since those guys are usually so good to come down to our stuff. Had to work.

Yah, Mike's setter did a good job. Hope he keeps coming out and running. One of these days a couple of judges are gonna put up shooting dogs in the shooting dog stakes so he best be out there running when they do! But that's another topic. :roll:

Doug

[Wa Chukar Hunter]

Storm won the AF Open AA stake at Madras a couple weeks ago.