setting up a mock UT TEST..

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:01 am

so now that we have a few ducks to work on duck search in the water ect i want to set up a mock UT test..i have a few newbie questions so bare with me and ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED

...1) to work on heel (jersey is trained to heel on/off lead) what is the best way to set this up, should i use cones or flags in a row for this or does anyone have other suggestions AND in the test can you give the HEEL command at all?...2) the duck drag..how far away should i drag the duck out AND in the test am i allowed to take any steps towards her in the retrieve? 3) how long is the steadiness at the blind usually...4) decoys laid out in the field and the dummy thrown out..how far out should the decoys be set out so i can simulate the distance in the test...again thanks for any and all advice, tips ect....ruth

larry · Post by **larry** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:21 am

Ruth, get a copy of the NAVHDA aims and rules book, this will answer all of these questions. Also consider attending a NAVHDA handlers clinic this would be very helpful. There are several in the north east this summer. My chapter (Southern Tier of NY) is having one June 25 & 26, and we still have a few openings.

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:23 am

We use push-in poly stakes for heeling stakes--the kind that push in with your foot pressure. They can be bought in farm stores for around $2 each.

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:25 am

I should say fence posts. They're made for temporary electrified livestock fencing.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:30 am

@larry..thanks i will get a copy of the handbook and i will look into the handlers clinic, thats great i didnt know they had one

but i am setting up a mock test in the mean time tomorrow while i have hubby home (hes only off on saturdays this month) so i would like some tips and help today if i can....ruth

@wems..thanks, i will call the store to see if they have them, how many should i pick up?...ruth

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:36 am

Make the drag simple at first. Build on success.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:40 am

volraider wrote:Make the drag simple at first. Build on success.

thanks brian, how many yards to start and should i let her see the drag?....ruth

larry · Post by **larry** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:50 am

Ruth, You can go on-line to www.NAVHDA.org and see the test rules under testing.

Byrdgirl · Post by **Byrdgirl** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:48 am

Hi Ruth,

Not sure if this is helpful or not but a few weeks back we worked on some of these things with our training group and I took pictures and video taped some parts of it. At least it will give you a visual of what we did. Good luck on your training this weekend!

http://gsphuntingdog.blogspot.com/2011/ ... -test.html

~Robyn

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:24 am

Byrdgirl wrote:Hi Ruth,

Not sure if this is helpful or not but a few weeks back we worked on some of these things with our training group and I took pictures and video taped some parts of it. At least it will give you a visual of what we did. Good luck on your training this weekend!

http://gsphuntingdog.blogspot.com/2011/ ... -test.html

~Robyn

oh my gosh, thats funny, i had set that blog to my favorites this morning when i was googleing preparing for a utility test

i looked at it all and i had set it to show my husband when he gets home today..it is a great help, thanks for sharing it..im really excited but nervous too..i think im most nervous about the steady by the blind part of the test..any additional tips would be great

..ruth

bhairhoger · Post by **bhairhoger** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:06 am

Steady at the blind
Put the dog on whoa, sit, or down. Walk out of sight from the dog and fire one blank wait 10 seconds then fire the second plank shot. Walk back to the dog. When you train for this I always had someone stand behind the dog just like the judges would. If the dog moves have that person correct the dog so the dog things that the judges will correct her during the test if she moves.

I always trained the whole sequence at one time. Walk her through the healing stakes, then steady at the blind, then the retrieve just like they do in the test. The decoys are normally placed just a few yards off shore and the duck is thrown into the water to allow for a 40 yard retrieve.

Here is a link to the test rules.
http://www.navhda.org/testrule.pdf

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:26 am

bhairhoger wrote:Steady at the blind
Put the dog on whoa, sit, or down. Walk out of sight from the dog and fire one blank wait 10 seconds then fire the second plank shot. Walk back to the dog. When you train for this I always had someone stand behind the dog just like the judges would. If the dog moves have that person correct the dog so the dog things that the judges will correct her during the test if she moves.

I always trained the whole sequence at one time. Walk her through the healing stakes, then steady at the blind, then the retrieve just like they do in the test. The decoys are normally placed just a few yards off shore and the duck is thrown into the water to allow for a 40 yard retrieve.

Here is a link to the test rules.
http://www.navhda.org/testrule.pdf

thanks brad, are you allowed to whoa the dog at the test? i read the test rules, i prefer videos to get a better image so ive been googling some sites and got a few to watch.. and i left a message for a mentor to call me about attending a handling clinic..how long is the dog tested under the judges in the UT in total? thanks for the help...ruth

Prairie Hunter · Post by **Prairie Hunter** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:27 am

Hi Ruth,

I do not know what point you’re at in your dog’s training. However, I train for each portion of the test separately. Only after my dog is very reliable at each portion of the test would I attempt to string them all together. There is a certain level of mental toughness required to switch gears from one portion of the test to the next. If the dog is uncertain, or lacks confidence in one aspect of the test, there is a good chance that lack of confidence will carry over to the next portion of the test. That is a receipe for failure.

I don’t mean to imply you cannot work on more than one thing in a day’s training. You certainly can. I might do field work in the morning, the train for the duck search or steady to blind later in the day. But, it will take a while before a dog is ready to try to do it all in one day.

Based on your comments, you have never trained for heeling through the stakes, so set up a course and drill your dog until it demonstrates it will be able to remain at heel consistently throughout the length of the course. The same goes for the other parts of the test. Set up training scenarios exactly like the test, and drill the dog on them until it is consistently reliable. Once the dog understands, and can do, what is being asked of it, you will want to start making the training scenario more difficult than the actual test (a longer heeling course with more turns, multiple resends for the duck search, more shots fired for steady to blind, more distractions, etc. . . .). Running a mock test is not nearly as important as having the dog performing solidly on each aspect of the test.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:37 am

Prairie Hunter wrote:Hi Ruth,

I do not know what point you’re at in your dog’s training. However, I train for each portion of the test separately. Only after my dog is very reliable at each portion of the test would I attempt to string them all together. There is a certain level of mental toughness required to switch gears from one portion of the test to the next. If the dog is uncertain, or lacks confidence in one aspect of the test, there is a good chance that lack of confidence will carry over to the next portion of the test. That is a receipe for failure.

I don’t mean to imply you cannot work on more than one thing in a day’s training. You certainly can. I might do field work in the morning, the train for the duck search or steady to blind later in the day. But, it will take a while before a dog is ready to try to do it all in one day.

Based on your comments, you have never trained for heeling through the stakes, so set up a course and drill your dog until it demonstrates it will be able to remain at heel consistently throughout the length of the course. The same goes for the other parts of the test. Set up training scenarios exactly like the test, and drill the dog on them until it is consistently reliable. Once the dog understands, and can do, what is being asked of it, you will want to start making the training scenario more difficult than the actual test (a longer heeling course with more turns, multiple resends for the duck search, more shots fired for steady to blind, more distractions, etc. . . .). Running a mock test is not nearly as important as having the dog performing solidly on each aspect of the test.

no have never trained for heeling through the stakes, im going to get some (20) to set it up and practice..jersey will heel on or off lead really well but i want to set things up as they will appear at the test (with the stakes) so she recognizes it and doesnt get distracted..thats another question i have, mulitple resends for the duck, at the test if she needs to be resent do they fire off another shot for her? i really appreciate all the info, you guys are alot of help getting me started

..ruth

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:55 am

WOW, thank you to all of the nice people who are givin me so much help and great do's and dont's for the test..i appreciate all the posts AND all the pm's as well..also, youre welcome to the few people who pm'd thanking me for asking things they would be too shy to ask

..just goes to show you not only the OP is reading and learning on their thread,these posts help me and many others too..thanks again....ruth

bhairhoger · Post by **bhairhoger** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:58 am

Ruth I sent you a PM

Prairie Hunter · Post by **Prairie Hunter** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:07 pm

Ruth,

You are doing the right thing by setting up the training to mimic the test. She may heel well, but remember, you will only have a 3’ wide space between the stakes. It is very tight. Unless the dog is used to that, it is easy for her to get confused and go around a stake rather than between them. By the time you’re done, you will probably want to double the length of that course and add more turns just to make sure she can do it during the test with no problem.

No, they will not fire a 2nd shot if the dog needs to be resent during the duck search. In fact, I never train with a shot at all until about 2 weeks before the test. If your dog has had birds shot over it, it will go out looking for a fallen bird upon hearing a shot. I want my dogs to go out and search because I sent it, not because it heard a shot. Do 2 or 3 resends without a shot during training.

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:24 pm

Another thing is to have people with you during training. As Brad said earlier their will be people around during the test so have people around during training.

Prairie Hunter · Post by **Prairie Hunter** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:29 pm

volraider wrote:Another thing is to have people with you during training. As Brad said earlier their will be people around during the test so have people around during training.

You are absolutey correct. Several times, I have seen dogs get spooked by all those people standing around because they never saw that during training.

larry · Post by **larry** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:41 pm

Prairie Hunter wrote:Ruth,

You are doing the right thing by setting up the training to mimic the test. She may heel well, but remember, you will only have a 3’ wide space between the stakes. It is very tight. Unless the dog is used to that, it is easy for her to get confused and go around a stake rather than between them. By the time you’re done, you will probably want to double the length of that course and add more turns just to make sure she can do it during the test with no problem.

No, they will not fire a 2nd shot if the dog needs to be resent during the duck search. In fact, I never train with a shot at all until about 2 weeks before the test. If your dog has had birds shot over it, it will go out looking for a fallen bird upon hearing a shot. I want my dogs to go out and search because I sent it, not because it heard a shot. Do 2 or 3 resends without a shot during training.

As Prairie Hunter says as you dog gets better with each section to be tested make it more dificult than the test. More healing stakes tighter together, much longer duck retrieve, double the length of the drag track, more than 2 shots at remain by blind, etc. If you get your dog doing these more dificult tasks then the test will be easy.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:19 pm

larry wrote:
Prairie Hunter wrote:Ruth,

You are doing the right thing by setting up the training to mimic the test. She may heel well, but remember, you will only have a 3’ wide space between the stakes. It is very tight. Unless the dog is used to that, it is easy for her to get confused and go around a stake rather than between them. By the time you’re done, you will probably want to double the length of that course and add more turns just to make sure she can do it during the test with no problem.

No, they will not fire a 2nd shot if the dog needs to be resent during the duck search. In fact, I never train with a shot at all until about 2 weeks before the test. If your dog has had birds shot over it, it will go out looking for a fallen bird upon hearing a shot. I want my dogs to go out and search because I sent it, not because it heard a shot. Do 2 or 3 resends without a shot during training.
As Prairie Hunter says as you dog gets better with each section to be tested make it more dificult than the test. More healing stakes tighter together, much longer duck retrieve, double the length of the drag track, more than 2 shots at remain by blind, etc. If you get your dog doing these more dificult tasks then the test will be easy.

got it

thanks......ruth

jarbo03 · Post by **jarbo03** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:41 pm

Glad I opened this post, lot of good info here. My pup is only 5 months old, but this is the future path I want for him. Now I just wish NAVHDA did things a little closer to home.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:16 am

jarbo03 wrote:Glad I opened this post, lot of good info here. My pup is only 5 months old, but this is the future path I want for him. Now I just wish NAVHDA did things a little closer to home.

jarbo03, im with you wishing NAVHDA did things closer to home..we travel at least 3 hours to every training day and we were going to travel 8 hours away for her test here in canada until ohio firmed up their fall UT test and its only 4 hours away so we switched test dates and chapters to save the 4 hours of driving..it takes some leg work to check out training days and which chapters offer them but the connections are priceless..one person leads to another and before you know it you have people calling and offering to help if you make it known you need it

(at least with us anyway

)..love the avatar pic your pup is nice!! my pup is 5 months old too, i love this age, its before they become teenagers and decide not to listen to ANYTHING

..good luck with training....ruth

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:07 am

Make sure you set the heeling stakes by the edge of the water when running a mock test!!!! The water is the diffence maker it gets them jacked up an can cause problems pulling you to get to the water inless you have trained for it. Its the little things you over look that you think you already have intack an don`t train for.

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:20 pm

Hattrick wrote:Make sure you set the heeling stakes by the edge of the water when running a mock test!!!! The water is the diffence maker it gets them jacked up an can cause problems pulling you to get to the water inless you have trained for it. Its the little things you over look that you think you already have intack an don`t train for.

Thats my problem...Dog heels great until close to the water.....

larry · Post by **larry** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:21 pm

gpblitz wrote:
snips wrote:Hattrick wrote:
Make sure you set the heeling stakes by the edge of the water when running a mock test!!!! The water is the diffence maker it gets them jacked up an can cause problems pulling you to get to the water inless you have trained for it. Its the little things you over look that you think you already have intack an don`t train for.

Thats my problem...Dog heels great until close to the water.....
When training heeling coarse use your shotgun barrel to smack the dog across the front end vs. a buggy whip when the dog tries to get ahead of you. You'll be carring a shotgun thru the heeling coarse when you test so you have the reminder tool always in your hand.

Howie, thats cheating! LOL

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:59 pm

Larry....No thats winning!!!! lol Snips i had the same problem the week before the test i had a great heeler , we ran a mock test the staurday before she pulled me through the stakes.,(big water drive) I had 6 days left to test day I put the spike collar on her every day , put up heeling stakes at are pond ,when we entered the stakes every little look, sniff, any thing other than focusing on my knee she would get a pop on the spike even if she was just was thinking about.. On test day while waiting my turn i put spike collar on her while waiting did sum drills to get her attention..Just make the stakes it`s own training tool... Proplem fix we walked right through no problem. I like the gun barrel trick i`ll be using that for the VC.. good luck

Prairie Hunter · Post by **Prairie Hunter** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:31 am

gpblitz wrote:
snips wrote:Hattrick wrote:
Make sure you set the heeling stakes by the edge of the water when running a mock test!!!! The water is the diffence maker it gets them jacked up an can cause problems pulling you to get to the water inless you have trained for it. Its the little things you over look that you think you already have intack an don`t train for.

Thats my problem...Dog heels great until close to the water.....
When training heeling coarse use your shotgun barrel to smack the dog across the front end vs. a buggy whip when the dog tries to get ahead of you. You'll be carring a shotgun thru the heeling coarse when you test so you have the reminder tool always in your hand.

Now, you're giving away test secrets!

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:26 pm

Great tips i didnt think about them being set up by water and jersey is a water nut FOR SURE!! thanks for the barrel tip howie

i can use any and all help..we did a practice run with the duck drag and heeling and it went GREAT

as for the steady by the blind part thats another story

jersey will NOT stay when brian walks away from her into the bush..i check corded her and made her stay by our blind but she started yippin and carryin on to go with him..any advice or tips to get her to behave, stay and be quiet while he goes out of sight and fires off the 2 shots

...thanks guys and gals....ruth

larry · Post by **larry** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:15 pm

What works better than smacking your dog with the shotgun barrel is putting the e-collar oh the dog. When you want to make a correction when healing touch the dogs nose with the end of the barrel at the same time stimulating with the e-collar. Dog thinks the juice is comming from the gun tip, and as said before you wil carry the gun during the healing test.

Ruth, try having your husband walk away from the pup after puting on a sit stay. At first just short distances still in sight of each other with no gun shots, (basic obedience training). Graduly increase the distance and length of time on stay, start going out of sight. Once pup will calmly stay untill your return start adding gun shots, at first with a starter pistol. You need the dog to stay calm with no whining or barking. He will be scoered down if he is not.

Remember train in small steps do not start out with the same dificulty as the test.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:23 pm

larry wrote:What works better than smacking your dog with the shotgun barrel is putting the e-collar oh the dog. When you want to make a correction when healing touch the dogs nose with the end of the barrel at the same time stimulating with the e-collar. Dog thinks the juice is comming from the gun tip, and as said before you wil carry the gun during the healing test.

Ruth, try having your husband walk away from the pup after puting on a sit stay. At first just short distances still in sight of each other with no gun shots, (basic obedience training). Graduly increase the distance and length of time on stay, start going out of sight. Once pup will calmly stay untill your return start adding gun shots, at first with a starter pistol. You need the dog to stay calm with no whining or barking. He will be scoered down if he is not.

Remember train in small steps do not start out with the same dificulty as the test.

thanks larry..jersey will stay when she is whoa'd no problem and brian can walk away from her 20 yards without difficulty BUT as soon as we are trying it with him going out of sight she freaks out..i think she thinks hes going for birds without her

so she carrys on cause she dont want to miss anything..we tried it with her sitting and me holding the cc and she didnt move while he walked away and stood about 20 yards away and she watches him the entire time, then we moved near the bush and tried it where he went out of site and she sounded like someone was beating her she yelled so loud

..we definitely need to work on this one...thanks again for any help...ruth

larry · Post by **larry** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:49 pm

Ruth, try doing it in your yard, when going out of sight just go around the corner of a building.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:31 pm

Jezz Ruth! when does poor little Jersey just get to be a Puppy

lol

Scott Linden · Post by **Scott Linden** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:43 pm

While every test is different due to judges' opinions, terrain, weather, etc., you should go to a few before you test. This will give you the best idea of how things work in the real world. And good luck!

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:25 am

@larry thanks, we are going to do it in the back yard again..she seemed ok when we did it but i think she has figured out he is just behind the house or pool so she dont care but in the field she thinks he will leave so its just a matter of repetition cause she is too smart for her britches

....ruth

@gitterdonebirtts, i know you are joking but i do assure you she is a puppy and has LOTS of time to be one..she is 6 months old this weekend and we work with her with literally no pressure..she goes swimming, for walks, to petsmart, parks with the kids down the slides (on their lap), for icecream (she loooves ice cream) and loves to just curl up on her bed in the kitchen while i cook..this gives me an idea for a post, thanks...ruth

@scott, thanks for the advice...we are attending a handlers clinic this summer and are attending some UT tests in the next few weeks as well..also we are going to a few training days with members to go over the tests

we have 4 months so lots of work to do...ruth

northern cajun · Post by **northern cajun** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:54 am

snips wrote:
Hattrick wrote:Make sure you set the heeling stakes by the edge of the water when running a mock test!!!! The water is the diffence maker it gets them jacked up an can cause problems pulling you to get to the water inless you have trained for it. Its the little things you over look that you think you already have intack an don`t train for.
Thats my problem...Dog heels great until close to the water.....

Lots of distractions next to the water! Excellent point

PS the dog is usually healed on the side with the water ie closer to the water.

northern cajun · Post by **northern cajun** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:00 pm

Its already been said nothing beats a Handlers Clinic you can go to test and watch all you want, but going to a handlers clinic you will get an in depth view of the test and how the scoring is done especially since you are just beginning. This may modify the way you train for certain aspects of the test.

northern cajun · Post by **northern cajun** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:01 pm

RUTH not that it is used very much but there is an intermediate test UPT.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:15 pm

northern cajun wrote:RUTH not that it is used very much but there is an intermediate test UPT.

Thanks, we were going to do the UPT test and decided to go for the UT instead..i talked to 2 judges that said they are basically getting rid of the UPT test and not many chapters are even offering it anymore..UPT was a hard test to find in my area but when i found one the members i spoke to said theres not much difference in the tests and since we will be going to the handlers clinics and attending some tests to watch we chose to go for the UT...ruth