WATER FORCE TROUBLE

[cheetome]

I have been working with my 18 month old DK on blind water retreives. I bring her to the water sit her and then send her with a point and a fetch comand. This was going good but one day last week she decided half way out to turn around and not search for the bumper. I called her in and set her up again and she refushed to enter the water and instead took off. I gathered her up grabbed her by the collar and shook her and reset her again she refused to enter the water again so I staked her out and brought my other DK out and made her watch the whole thing. I made her watch a few more retreives by the other dog and then gave them both a few fun bumpers and called it quits for the day. I went back out about a week later and all she wants to do is look for a way out. Should I back up in the force training?

[4dabirds]

It sounds to me like the dog does not understand what is expected. Has this dog been force retrieve trained.? Is it the first time doing blind retrieve? Is this the first time retrieving from water after force retrieve?

[KellyM87]

Is she just coming in/out of heat?

[ultracarry]

+1 4dabirds.

If the dog has not been force broke you may need to start now. The dog found out they can ignore your command without an immediate consequence and gave you the bird. Time to take it away from everything that's fun and forcebreak .

My dog started to drop birds about a foot or two away and not want to pick it back up. Little did she know humans are stronger willed and always in charge. Make sure you choose a forcebreaking process that allows you to have control for the water retrieves so she learns you are always in charge and can get an immediate correction. Hope ypu don't have anything planned for the next two to three months.

[EvanG]

How are you going about this? What method?

EvanG

[adogslife]

Can you explain your force method?

[cheetome]

I have been using Smart Fetch videos. I have gone all the way through force to pile ect. I don't over do my training sessions and can usually read when the dog is getting bored or tired. She will take after a thrown bumper she marks but just quit on the blinds. I'm thinking I will have to back up a little to be sure she isn't getting confused.

[Dashin Gun Dogs]

Is she FF completely in the yard and the field? If yes, then maybe she doesn't enjoy swimming. Maybe she knows you won't go into the water and make her retrieve. Sometimes intelligent dogs have to be forced to do it in all locations. You may have to get into the water with her to make her do it.

If you purchaded the Smart Fetch videos, then I would listen to the man that made the videos. These are his methods and he knows the best way to get dogs through that particular method of FF.

[cheetome]

She loves the water actually. I think I may need to get right in the water with her and make her do it. She is a quick learner. I don't have her all the way through force in the field yet. Force breaking is still a work in progress.

[Dashin Gun Dogs]

Well if she isn't FF completely then don't do things that you can't enforce. You need to finish the FF process before jumping too far ahead.

[adogslife]

You've answered your question.
You need to follow the program.

[crackerd]

I have been using Smart Fetch videos.

Must've got the pirated version, because what you say below doesn't at all jibe with Evan's program - especially his water forcing method which works like a charm.

She loves the water actually. I think I may need to get right in the water with her and make her do it. She is a quick learner. I don't have her all the way through force in the field yet. Force breaking is still a work in progress.

Again, does not jibe. Although...Evan, you didn't go and sell the SmartFetch pointing dog language rights to a third party, did you?

MG

[cheetome]

I don't have the water force dvd. I have his 2dvd set but have not received the water force yet. I did order it the other day.

[gonehuntin']

I'm going to assume here that when you say "blind water retrieves", you are really forcing to a pile of visible bumpers?

I will also assume that they are only about 50' away.

IF you have done a thorough job in the ff, you may wish to consider two options: 1) place a helper on the bank with the bumpers hook one rope to the dog's collar, one to the SNAP of the lead hooked to the dog's collar. You keep one end, your helper the other. When you say "fetch", and you should probably have transitioned to "back" at this point, have you're helper take up slack on the rope and gently pull the dog. You will nick her and command fetch. Keep up the gentle pressure on the rope and the "fetch, nick, pull" sequence until the dog turns around and goes.

When she gets to the pile, both of you put equal pressure on the two ropes if she doesn't immediately pick up a bumper, command "fetch", and nick her. The two ropes stop her from bolting.

Alternately, you can do this by yourself with a portable whoa post and pulley hooked up to it.

My gut reaction is that this dog is not thoroughly forced on land, and that's why you're having problems in the water. You may have to back up.