House life>>>Work Life.

[cstokes/southeast,ks]

What were some of the ways that you helped your indoor pointer distinguish just playing in the yard and time to go to work in the field? I’m hoping to make the next pup a indoor dog, Although I don’t want to do it if its going to settle her down so much that she forgets what her real job is.

My plan is to be very strict when it comes to where he rides in the vehicle. When its hunting/work time he is in the dog boxes with the rest of the dogs. Also while she is young running her with older experienced dogs. I plan to keep the training situations and home life very distinguished.

[ezzy333]

Never heard of anyone having a problem with a dog knowing what it is doing. There isn't any difference really as the pup will learn what is expected when in the house and will also know what is expected when in the field. It's just a non issue. Dogs that are kept in the house do tend to bond more with you than a kennel dog but that is the only difference I have ever seen.

Ezzy

[Winchey]

Birds. They know when they are going to work, I don't know if it is routine or they can read your mood or excitement when you are going to run on birds or whatever but they figure it out pretty quick. If he is well bread birds will always fire him up more than a romp in the yard.

[cstokes/southeast,ks]

The dog is very well bred and I dont expect a problem. All my bird dogs have been outside dogs, and they know one thing and thats when they get out of the kennel or the weather turns cool and wet its time to hunt.

[ezzy333]

The dog is very well bred and I dont expect a problem. All my bird dogs have been outside dogs, and they know one thing and thats when they get out of the kennel or the weather turns cool and wet its time to hunt.

I make sure mine get out of the kennel everyday of the year. They go where I want them to go and they behave pretty well no matter where we go or what we decide to do. I will guarantee they will know if you are going hunting before even you are sure.

Ezzy

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Cstokes,
Having trained more than a few pointers for Grouse hunting I can tell you that keeping your pointer in the house, will not have any adverse effect on his actual Grouse hunting
talents. It actually helps bond the dog and the master into a Grouse hunting team. If you plan on playing FT games with the dog that is a completely different situation. For real Grouse hunting you want the dog to bond with you and become a companion hunter, in FT games the dog needs to be completely independent bird finder.
Pine Creek

[MO_GSP]

my gsp is a house dog and he gets "fired up" real easy when we play in the yard or go for a run but when he sees me get his bag out(full of training goodies) he just dang near goes crazy standing by the door whining and shaking his skinny lil butt like hes about to pee himself, so i don't see a problem at all

[ezzy333]

Cstokes,
Having trained more than a few pointers for Grouse hunting I can tell you that keeping your pointer in the house, will not have any adverse effect on his actual Grouse hunting
talents. It actually helps bond the dog and the master into a Grouse hunting team. If you plan on playing FT games with the dog that is a completely different situation. For real Grouse hunting you want the dog to bond with you and become a companion hunter, in FT games the dog needs to be completely independent bird finder.
Pine Creek

But the dog can be independent and still hunt with you. Probably as many FCs that are house dogs as there are kennel dogs. The theory that a good trial dog had to be kept in a kennel went out years ago.

Ezzy

[Winchey]

Cstokes,
Having trained more than a few pointers for Grouse hunting I can tell you that keeping your pointer in the house, will not have any adverse effect on his actual Grouse hunting
talents. It actually helps bond the dog and the master into a Grouse hunting team. If you plan on playing FT games with the dog that is a completely different situation. For real Grouse hunting you want the dog to bond with you and become a companion hunter, in FT games the dog needs to be completely independent bird finder.
Pine Creek

How many field trials have you seen?

[4dabirds]

Culture clash by Jean Donaldson is a good book that will help you withbehavioral issues at home as well as in the field. You can get it on amazon .com for under 10 dollars.

[gonehuntin']

Every dog I've ever had has been a house dog. It has NO adverse effect on them. What id DOES to is to create a far more socialized dog with a much stronger bond to the handler.

[displaced_texan]

Cstokes,
Having trained more than a few pointers for Grouse hunting I can tell you that keeping your pointer in the house, will not have any adverse effect on his actual Grouse hunting
talents. It actually helps bond the dog and the master into a Grouse hunting team. If you plan on playing FT games with the dog that is a completely different situation. For real Grouse hunting you want the dog to bond with you and become a companion hunter, in FT games the dog needs to be completely independent bird finder.
Pine Creek

But the dog can be independent and still hunt with you. Probably as many FCs that are house dogs as there are kennel dogs. The theory that a good trial dog had to be kept in a kennel went out years ago.

Ezzy

Bingo.

Dogs know what's going on, I've hunted over many dogs that were hose dogs as well, they knew when it was time for business.

Ironically the most independent dog I've ever seen was a very people oriented house dog, and the biggest boot polisher I've ever seen in the field was never allowed in the house. It's about training, and to an extent the dog. (The independent dog mentioned is just a black hearted deer chaser.)

[gittrdonebritts]

For real Grouse hunting you want the dog to bond with you and become a companion hunter, in FT games the dog needs to be completely independent bird finder.

being a Companion hunter and a FT competitor have a lot in common the dog doesn't have to be completely independent from you to be competitive that's just a joke to me, many FT greats were companion hunters in the off season, and lived in the home with there owner many dogs need that connection to want to go harder and faster and find birds in FT's honestly were are you getting that info from. but since you train "grouse Dogs" :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: you must know more about it than us :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Chukar12]

This thread is interrupted for a weather alert...BE CAUTIOUS OF A STRONG WARM TO HOT GUST OF WIND OUT OF THE NORTH EAST...

Please don't worry about your hunting, field trial or companion dog being less effective a anything based on being in the house...now there are behaviors and different personalities in dogs to be cautious of, remember they are dogs not humans....

holy cow

[Sharon]

Cstokes,
Having trained more than a few pointers for Grouse hunting I can tell you that keeping your pointer in the house, will not have any adverse effect on his actual Grouse hunting
talents. It actually helps bond the dog and the master into a Grouse hunting team. If you plan on playing FT games with the dog that is a completely different situation. For real Grouse hunting you want the dog to bond with you and become a companion hunter, in FT games the dog needs to be completely independent bird finder.
Pine Creek

How many field trials have you seen?

Hmmm In a FT the dog is working for you still I hope. Independent in that he doesn't need the handler to orchestrate his every move but still a team.

[4dabirds]

What were some of the ways that you helped your indoor pointer distinguish just playing in the yard and time to go to work in the field? I’m hoping to make the next pup a indoor dog, Although I don’t want to do it if its going to settle her down so much that she forgets what her real job is.

My plan is to be very strict when it comes to where he rides in the vehicle. When its hunting/work time he is in the dog boxes with the rest of the dogs. Also while she is young running her with older experienced dogs. I plan to keep the training situations and home life very distinguished.

Dogs are place oriented and use cues in their environment to determine what it is they should be doing or not doing. They adjust very well to different environments because they are masters at reading subtle cues that tell them what is going on.If i come downstairs with my hunting pants on the dog knows instantly that is what is in store for the day. Cues are the language the dog is learning from and they know what the game is even when we do not.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Gentlemen & ladies,
If you actually believe your independent FT dog is really hunting for you, you probably believe in Global warming also.
RGD/Dave

[ezzy333]

Gentlemen & ladies,
If you actually believe your independent FT dog is really hunting for you, you probably believe in Global warming also.
RGD/Dave

Yes we do know there is Global Warming but the arguement is whether it is man made. Gotta get with the program if you are going to have a good discussion. Now, we know the difference between a FT Grouse dog and a foot hunters Grouse dog is range so tell us weaker minded people what is the distance the dog can get from the hunter or handler before it isn't hunting for you? There has to be a cut off point when we know the darn dog is hunting for itself and has no interest in you except that it tries to stay out in front of us as we walk through the woods or along the logging roads. Would it be some where near a 100 ft or so? And why do you suppose they want to stay in front and hold the point till you get there? Must be a mystery that is known only by the fabled PA Grouse hunter. Too bad George Byrd didn't know what that distance was as he was from WV.

Ezzy

[brad27]

Gentlemen & ladies,
If you actually believe your independent FT dog is really hunting for you, you probably believe in Global warming also.
RGD/Dave

You shouldn't talk about things you know nothing about.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Ezzy,
For some foolish reason you actually believe that how big a dog works has something to due with Grouse dog bidability and the dogs instinctive ability to work with his master as a companion. A premise typical of people who spend litle time in the Grouse woods. 1st a great Grouse dog works scent and is not always out in front of his master, as expected of an independent FT type dog. Let me clue you in on how a Grouse actually lives in the forest, a Grouse is a foraging bird who spends 90% of its life on the forest floor, the only time a Grouse flies is when it absolutely has too. Grouse walk mostly in circle patterns large and small searching for food. These circles join and run in many different directions forming many different figure 8
patterns in their covers. A Great Grouse dog figures this out very quickly and actually covers these circles picking up air scent to set the Grouse for his masters gunning.
How big a dog runs only enters into consideration when the Grouse populations are extremely low and the dog must cover great distances to find a Grouse covert.
From the way you stated your question you know little about Grouse dogs or Grouse hunting, as is the case with most FT people.
You and Al Gore are ment for each other, climate change is right up your alley.
RGD/Dave

[brad27]

RGD,

For some foolish reason you actually believe that how big a dog works has something to due with a FT dog bidability and the dogs instinctive ability to work with his master as a companion.

Nice try though.

[Munster]

CStokes, It is funny what you said about letting him ride in the car with you and then in the kennel when you go to hunt. I have done that for as long as I have owned dogs. When I had my Shepherds, they rode with me in the car around town. But when it was time for work, they rode in thier kennels.
I have adapted the same theory with my Munsters. When I want them to be pet.companions, they ride with me in the cars back seat. When it is time to hunt/train/test they ride in thier kennels.
I think maybe they get a chance to get qued into what we are going to do. They can get thier game faces on so to speak.
I also use diffrent collars or leads for diffrent things.
I have a lead I walk them on and then I have a slip type tracking lead that I put on them for tracks. They get the diffrance, because with the regular lead they heel nicly. But when the tracking lead comes on thier noses hit the dirt and they are driving.
It is actually cool to see that they know the differances.

[Winchey]

The only time I bring a kennel in the car is when we are working, the rest of the time he rides shotgun or sleeps in the back seat. But it's not to tell the dog we are working. It is to prevent $2800 damage to the interior of the car like the time I figured he would be fine in there while I ran another dog. Lesson learned.

[Winchey]

Ezzy,
For some foolish reason you actually believe that how big a dog works has something to due with Grouse dog bidability and the dogs instinctive ability to work with his master as a companion. A premise typical of people who spend litle time in the Grouse woods. 1st a great Grouse dog works scent and is not always out in front of his master, as expected of an independent FT type dog. Let me clue you in on how a Grouse actually lives in the forest, a Grouse is a foraging bird who spends 90% of its life on the forest floor, the only time a Grouse flies is when it absolutely has too. Grouse walk mostly in circle patterns large and small searching for food. These circles join and run in many different directions forming many different figure 8
patterns in their covers. A Great Grouse dog figures this out very quickly and actually covers these circles picking up air scent to set the Grouse for his masters gunning.
How big a dog runs only enters into consideration when the Grouse populations are extremely low and the dog must cover great distances to find a Grouse covert.
From the way you stated your question you know little about Grouse dogs or Grouse hunting, as is the case with most FT people.
You and Al Gore are ment for each other, climate change is right up your alley.
RGD/Dave

You're so wise.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Wincey,
Not me sir, but those who taught me were wise, I just learned from the masters, some of the books they wrote you might want to read,
How to Train your own Grouse Dog, by Davis, you FT boys and girls will love this book. Learn about the only dog in history to win both the Grouse Dog Chanpionship and Ames in the same year. Training Grouse and Woodcock dogs, by Logan Bennett, A Grouse dog trainer and Professional Biologist, who worked with Knight on the 1st Woodcock studies ever done for both the Federal Govt and the PGC. Bennett owned a Ryman Setter that was so good at finding Woodcock, they used the dog to point Woodcock for Federal banding studies.
The Grouse hunters Guide by Walrod, and Woodcock, by JA Knight, Grouse by, JA Knight, the PGC legenday Biologist, and writer. The new Woodcock study by Eric Mill head biologist for the PGC SGL. These men were and are professionals at what they have done, Biologist who worked for the federal Government or the PGC or both, or men who helped start Ames, and were some of their 1st judges. Prior to attacking me you might want to do a little reading. Hay Ezzy hows that for attitude.
Brad 27 I talk about things I do know and have learned from people who are professionals at their chosen careeres, not men who put out bogus political information,
to steal from general public.
RGD/Dave

[Grouse Dog Guy]

There has never been a dog win the Grand National Grouse and the National at Ames! You need to get your facts right about a lot of things or people will think your stretching the truth.

[displaced_texan]

There has never been a dog win the Grand National Grouse and the National at Ames! You need to get your facts right about a lot of things or people will think your stretching the truth.

Gentlemen, if you understood him and his life you would realize that he is never wrong...

RGD- We know that you have the greatest dogs, and the biggest area to hunt with the finest guns, and the most perfect birds.

If he's in Kansas and looking for a Pointer I'd say all your rambling and bragging is completely irrelevant to what the OP is trying to learn and accomplish with his dog.

[ultracarry]

Have fun with your puppy when you get it. Let it jump on the couch and sleep there with you after you have had one too many. Feed it candy, ice cream, Chinese food, Starbucks coffee and the dog will love you for it.

I think I ruined my dogs independence soo much.by letting her live in the house (on my days off). If I were to do it all over I would have my wife at the trainer and my dog in the house. makes more sense to me. Maybe my dog will run an All Age stake this year, after she wakes up from the bed in the hotel room or her crate in mine.

[Grouse Dog Guy]

There has never been a dog win the Grand National Grouse and the National at Ames! You need to get your facts right about a lot of things or people will think your stretching the truth.

Gentlemen, if you understood him and his life you would realize that he is never wrong...

RGD- We know that you have the greatest dogs, and the biggest area to hunt with the finest guns, and the most perfect birds.

If he's in Kansas and looking for a Pointer I'd say all your rambling and bragging is completely irrelevant to what the OP is trying to learn and accomplish with his dog.

RGD, is a legend in his own mind that walked through the looking glass one to many times. He sees himself as Peter Pan and try's to lead the poor unknowing away to Never Never Land where he makes his dreams come true by sprinkling fairy dust on their heads.

[ezzy333]

Ezzy,
For some foolish reason you actually believe that how big a dog works has something to due with Grouse dog bidability and the dogs instinctive ability to work with his master as a companion. A premise typical of people who spend litle time in the Grouse woods. 1st a great Grouse dog works scent and is not always out in front of his master, as expected of an independent FT type dog. Let me clue you in on how a Grouse actually lives in the forest, a Grouse is a foraging bird who spends 90% of its life on the forest floor, the only time a Grouse flies is when it absolutely has too. Grouse walk mostly in circle patterns large and small searching for food. These circles join and run in many different directions forming many different figure 8
patterns in their covers. A Great Grouse dog figures this out very quickly and actually covers these circles picking up air scent to set the Grouse for his masters gunning.
How big a dog runs only enters into consideration when the Grouse populations are extremely low and the dog must cover great distances to find a Grouse covert.
From the way you stated your question you know little about Grouse dogs or Grouse hunting, as is the case with most FT people.
You and Al Gore are ment for each other, climate change is right up your alley.
RGD/Dave

Dave, I wasn't the one who thought that how big a dog works is the deciding factor or even has anything to do with a dog working with it's master. You were the one that told me that. I have learned everything I know about grouse hunting from you, my Master mentor. You said that there was a difference in the independent FT dog and the Grouse Dog. And from what you said the difference is the distance they hunt from you. I just want to know what is the distance that says a dog is no longer hunting for you? Is that too much to ask?

I'm sorry I mentioned the global warming thing but you brought it up. I am well aware there is and has been global warming as well as global cooling since the beginning of time. I hope you know that too. I think the argument you were trying to start has to do with MAN MADE global warming and unlike Al Gore I can find no evidence that it exist or is even possible. Is that what you find too?

I did notice a while back that you said the coverts you hunt in PA were thousands upon thousands of acres of forest and when I looked at the map it said the area you said you hunted was near twice the size of PA. I asked how you did that but you never did answer me so I am still confused on that one too. But I think I am learning that you tend to exaggerate quite a bit so I kind of take what you say anymore with a grain or two of salt. But it hurts me to do that since I think of you as the last of the old times mentors still around.

Oh, just noticed that you said there was a dog that won the Grouse dog Championship and the NFC the same year? Now I am confused again because you just told me the two types of dogs are completely different. How did that happen?

Waiting anxiously for your answer,' I have three excellent bird dogs and am wondering if they could ever be a Grouse Dog. I have always thought a bird dog was a birddog and a good one could learn to hunt anything with some experience. Have I made another mistake and do I need a grouse dog, pheasant dog, and quail dog if I am going to hunt the different birds?
'
Ezzy

[Winchey]

For one there is not a debate about climate change. The vast majority of the scientific community will confirm it is fact. You get a few people who deny and they seem to get as much publicity as the rest. How much of it is man made? I don't know but I will side with the greatest scientific minds. But this is all besides the point.

I SEEN 50 GROUSE THIS MORNING! Good thing they weren't from Pennsylvania because we were running the wrong dogs.

[displaced_texan]

I did notice a while back that you said the coverts you hunt in PA were thousands upon thousands of acres of forest and when I looked at the map it said the area you said you hunted was near twice the size of PA. I asked how you did that but you never did answer me so I am still confused on that one too. But I think I am learning that you tend to exaggerate quite a bit so I kind of take what you say anymore with a grain or two of salt. But it hurts me to do that since I think of you as the last of the old times mentors still around.


Ezzy

We had a similar discussion about population of Pennsylvania and how it was broken down, urban and rural.


Turns out the problem was that I was going by numbers and what the census said, and I don't understand how things are...