Effect of temp and wind on scenting

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Kiki
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Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by Kiki » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:37 pm

I guess as a general rule, scenting conditions aren't that great when the temps are high and wind is blowing hard, but how much difference would you see. If you have a dog that consistently gives a good showing at 60F with 7mph winds, what do you think would happen if it had to run at 90F with 15-20mph winds or with little or no wind at all? Thanks for your time.

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by Dashin Gun Dogs » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:18 pm

You never know how a dog will react until you put them in the situation.
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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by Sharon » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:05 pm

The wind isn't a big problem . Bone dry land with heat makes it awfully hard for a dog to find a bird. If the dog is so hot , it is panting, scenting is difficult. I could be wrong but that is what I have learned from my experiences.
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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:02 pm

Humidity makes a big difference in senting also. There is absolutely no way any of us knows what to expect beyond judt knowing what seems to effect scent in a general way.

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by Firemedic » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:17 pm

Kiki wrote:I guess as a general rule, scenting conditions aren't that great when the temps are high and wind is blowing hard, but how much difference would you see. If you have a dog that consistently gives a good showing at 60F with 7mph winds, what do you think would happen if it had to run at 90F with 15-20mph winds or with little or no wind at all? Thanks for your time.

Just make sure your dog is conditioned to run in that 90 degree heat......

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by Kiki » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:48 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I know I still have a lot to learn. It's definetely hard to say how every dog will react to any given situation. Trial and error are your only way to find out.
Just make sure your dog is conditioned to run in that 90 degree heat......
Where I live there aren't too many days thru out the year that are below 80F. Most days are between 85 and 89. Not great conditions to be running or for scenting. They do make for a great day at the beach though! Every time we go out running, I bring water for her to drink and cool off. Can't wait to get to higher altitudes where the temps aren't so high.

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:26 pm

Temperature works kind of like this: The warmer the weather, the more humid the air. Warm air holds more moisture than cold air, thus more scent. That's why in very cold weather, minus 0, the dog's have a terrible time scenting birds. Probably ideal conditions are a temperature of about 65 degrees with a relative humidity of about 55%.

Wind is a dog's enemy. A light breeze carries scent, a strong wind disperses it and causes it to swirl. The dog may never be sure where the scent is coming from and you get very soft points. A 5-10mph wind seems ideal.
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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by K9luke » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:19 pm

Carry water and a canteen cup or something similar. Keep the dogs nose wet and it will be able to scent better than with a dry nose.
Temps dont matter much as far as a dogs ability to catch scent, but humidity is a huge factor.

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by h&t » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:50 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:Temperature works kind of like this: The warmer the weather, the more humid the air. Warm air holds more moisture than cold air, thus more scent. That's why in very cold weather, minus 0, the dog's have a terrible time scenting birds. Probably ideal conditions are a temperature of about 65 degrees with a relative humidity of about 55%.

Wind is a dog's enemy. A light breeze carries scent, a strong wind disperses it and causes it to swirl. The dog may never be sure where the scent is coming from and you get very soft points. A 5-10mph wind seems ideal.
I know what you mean about humidity, but technically cold air can hold more water than warm (compare winter sea shore and summer desert :-) )
Without getting into physics of relative and absolute humidity, I 100% agree that more humid air carries scent better.
I've even seen (pseudo)scientific calculations on scent density against humidity.
And steady breeze is the best wind. Even at 5-10 mph wind, if it's shifting and swirling - not good.

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by displaced_texan » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:22 pm

h&t wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:Temperature works kind of like this: The warmer the weather, the more humid the air. Warm air holds more moisture than cold air, thus more scent. That's why in very cold weather, minus 0, the dog's have a terrible time scenting birds. Probably ideal conditions are a temperature of about 65 degrees with a relative humidity of about 55%.

Wind is a dog's enemy. A light breeze carries scent, a strong wind disperses it and causes it to swirl. The dog may never be sure where the scent is coming from and you get very soft points. A 5-10mph wind seems ideal.
I know what you mean about humidity, but technically cold air can hold more water than warm (compare winter sea shore and summer desert :-) )
Without getting into physics of relative and absolute humidity, I 100% agree that more humid air carries scent better.
I've even seen (pseudo)scientific calculations on scent density against humidity.
And steady breeze is the best wind. Even at 5-10 mph wind, if it's shifting and swirling - not good.
I was going to point out the same thing about humidity and temperature... gonehuntin inverted it, humidity drops as the temperature rises, all other things remaining the same.
I have English Pointers because they don't ever grow up either...

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by nikegundog » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:45 pm

displaced_texan wrote: I was going to point out the same thing about humidity and temperature... gonehuntin inverted it, humidity drops as the temperature rises, all other things remaining the same.
Are you talking about humidity (absolute) or relative humidity?

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by northern cajun » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:58 pm

nikegundog wrote:
displaced_texan wrote: I was going to point out the same thing about humidity and temperature... gonehuntin inverted it, humidity drops as the temperature rises, all other things remaining the same.
Are you talking about humidity (absolute) or relative humidity?
From a study in a desert setting with dogs looking for Land turtles.


There was no significant relationship
between the time of day and detection distance (r = 0.03, p = 0.7199) and detection distances in each
trial were not significantly different (n = 163, p = 0.0157), although environmental conditions between
trials (relative humidity, temperature, wind speed means) were significantly different. Detection times
ranged between 0745 and 1753. The dogs were able to detect tortoises from variable distances with a
level of equal proficiency [20] despite variable environmental conditions that are thought to affect
scent behavior and so affect vapor transport.

Temperatures (T) recorded during the trials ranged from 12 C – 27 C. Relative humidity (RH)
ranged between 16% and 85%. Wind speed ranged between 0 m/s and 9 m/s. Pearson correlation
results for detection distance and mean humidity during the trials was negative and significant (r = -
0.33, 2-tailed p < 0.0001) and was significant and positively related to both mean temperature (r =
0.35, 2-tailed p < 0.0001) and mean wind speed (r = 0.27, 2-tailed p = 0.0005). The greater the wind
speed, the greater the detection distance. Given our understanding of the processes necessary for a dog
to detect tortoise odor, we know that higher temperatures will cause more evaporation and higher
winds will transport the odor farther. This analysis is complicated by the inter-relationships among T,
RH and wind speed. As expected, when T increased wind speeds increased and RH dropped (Table 2).
It is likely that there was insufficient variation in climatic conditions during this study (e.g. a day with
high RH and high temperature) to fully separate the influence of these parameters. RH is more
challenging to interpret; since we do not know exactly what the tortoise odor compounds are we
cannot be sure how RH influences their behavior.
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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:54 am

displaced_texan wrote:
I've even seen (pseudo)scientific calculations on scent density against humidity.
And steady breeze is the best wind. Even at 5-10 mph wind, if it's shifting and swirling - not good.
I was going to point out the same thing about humidity and temperature... gonehuntin inverted it, humidity drops as the temperature rises, all other things remaining the same.[/quote]

Actually, I just got that information this winter. What I do for a living now is sell flooring products. We put about 1000sf of bamboo in a home in Dec. with no one living in the house. In two months, the bamboo split right up the center of the planks. I checked the RH of the house. The RH OUTSIDE was 76%. Inside, since they were dehumidifying, it was 26%. Hence the split planks.

It was pointed out to use by an April Aire technician that WARM AIR holds more moisture and thus has to be dehumidified. COLD AIR holds less moisture and thus has to be humidified.

Perhaps HUMIDITY and RELATIVE HUMIDITY are different???
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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by 4dabirds » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:09 am

kIki I was in Hawaii in July that is one beautiful state .I wish I could go back with my dog. One thing you have to take into consideration is that dogs breath through their nose and mouth at the same time.when the dog hits it's lactate threshold it loses this ability. The better condition the dog is in the longer it will take to get to this point. I think moisture in the air barometric pressure as well as temperature and the different combinations of these all have an effect. If you use planted birds you will see dramatic differences in your dogs ability to scent. I am sure you will have more success in the mountains there which seem to hold a lot of moisture during the day. At least that was my experience on the big island. Got soaked on a motorcycle ride up to the volcano.

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by orbirdhunter » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:27 pm

It seems to follow that a little more humidity and a little more wind makes for better scenting conditions...

Now to the other part. Relative Humidity is a percentage ratio based on temps......Warmer air has the Capacity to hold more moisture then colder air, but that doesn't mean that it automatically does. Specific Humidity is the actual measurement of the amount of moisture in the air...Moisture in the air is measured in GPP( grains per pound).

Example...... You have one room that is 68 degrees and 40%RH.......now if you heat that room up to 90 degrees the RH or relative humidity is probably going to be somewhere around 18-20%. However, in both cases the GPP or Specific humidty or the actual amount of water in the air is about 40GPP in both cases.
given the same amount of moisture in the air the warmer the air the lower the RH the colder the air the higher the RH....

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by tommyboy72 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:47 pm

Sharon wrote:The wind isn't a big problem .
Apparently you have never trained or hunted in 35-40 mph winds and seen dogs run over top of birds that any other day they would have hammered from 20 yards back. :D

I don't really expect my dogs to point in anything over about 90 degrees out here. It's just too dry for them to pick up the scent. Any hotter than 90 degrees and either we don't go out or it is more or less a fun run at least on wild birds.

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by Ron R » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:30 am

It looks like many of you seem to have scenting conditions figured out. I can honestly say that I'm never really sure how scenting is going to be. I work alot of dogs threw the week all year long and I swear that there are days when a person would think scenting is going to be horrible (upper 90's and dry) and the dogs seem to do fine. There are also days when it's the other way around, nice and cool morning with moisture in the air and dew on the ground dogs are crowding. I think it's a little more complex than moisture in the air, maybe the cover sets off more scent at times camouflaging the bird scent...who knows. I can't figure it out so I let the dogs tell me how it is. I quit trying to guess and never really think about it.
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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by Chukar12 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:47 am

I believe that all of the measurable environmental factors as discussed play a strong role. Dry and no breeze is an issue whether it is hot or cold. Some of the most perplexing dog work I ever see is in dead calm 10 degree mornings in the desert on valley quail in the desert floor. Singles from a broken covey are nearly impossible to locate, a little breeze changes everything, and there is almost always one on the ridges as opposed to the floor.

The real immeasurable factor is what the wind is doing. Think of air like water it moves much the same way, with eddy's and shifts driven not only by topography but more complicated than water it's path is altered by temperature and humidity. I believe this is why getting too specific or sure of ourselves about scenting conditions for a dog is tough to do. When we are training being tuned into the dog's reaction to scent is the key. The dog will signal when it hits scent and we need to react then if appropriate and not by when we believe the dog should be reacting.

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by Sharon » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:59 am

tommyboy72 wrote:
Sharon wrote:The wind isn't a big problem .
Apparently you have never trained or hunted in 35-40 mph winds and seen dogs run over top of birds that any other day they would have hammered from 20 yards back. :D

I don't really expect my dogs to point in anything over about 90 degrees out here. It's just too dry for them to pick up the scent. Any hotter than 90 degrees and either we don't go out or it is more or less a fun run at least on wild birds.
LOL I wasn't thinking of a hurricane. Swirling wind is bad but a straight LIGHT WIND is no problem.
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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by TXShooter » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:09 am

I work at a wafer fab in Houston where the wafers are made in clean rooms and you have to operate under very strict humidity levels to produce the different products. We have a SE breeze that comes off the Gulf and brings alot of moisture with it, this is what causes the humidity, not the temperature. During these times we cool the air to drop out the moisture to the desired value.

When Northers blow in we have to humidify the air in order to maintain those same specs.

Temperature is not the determining factor, it is the source of the moisture which contributes the most.

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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by northern cajun » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:26 am

I learned more about scent watching smoke bombs place in various types of terrain as Chucker said it is like water you would need some strong computational Fluid Dynamics to figure it out.

Regardless of all factors it still amazes me when a dog just slams a point!!
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Re: Effect of temp and wind on scenting

Post by jczv » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:04 am

A guy down the block from me put these on his website - just smoke bombs under different conditions. Gives a decent general overview.

http://www.skydancekennels.com/tips.htm

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