Water problems

[cheetome]

I think i may have ruined my dog on water retrieving. I had been working with several friends training water work and my dog has been behind and not progressing like the others have. i had her out and she was retrieving bumpers willingly but only if she sees this happen. long story short I lost my temper and threw the dog in the water and roughed her up. No excuse for it I know. She just decided when I said fetch she would run away and not fetch. Now she will go into the water no problem if no command is given or if she sees the duck thrown and swim to cover but if I say fetch she wants to run. If it is a blind she won't even try to enter the water. Now this started before my lapse in commen sense and judgment but continues now still. I did get out place a bag on a pole for a mark and plant several dead birds. She would not go on the fetch command but would get them if I rowed the canoe over there. she would swim back deliver to hand but refuse to go back unless I started the canoe that way. Can this be fixed or did i ruin her? Please no hammering on me fo my lost temper. I relize my mystake and lack of judgment and feel quite bad about it as it is. Would appreciate some good solid help though. Thank You

[RoostersMom]

How old is she, and why don't you consider sending her to a trainer for force fetching?

[gonehuntin']

Water force will cure all of your problems.

[cheetome]

She is 17 months old and a pro trainer isn't in my budget. What water force program do you suggest?

[adogslife]

Is this the same dog in the gun shy post about a year ago?

I'll be harsh here
you need to get with a pro, for you and your dog

[ultracarry]

If you want the dog to go in the water when commanded then get with a pro. Looking your temper and causing the problem only shows a fraction of what would happen if you were to force break a dog. I have seen a guy ruin a dog because of his temper.....

[birddogger]

Trying to force a dog to do something by loosing your temper and ruffing them up can certainly do no good and will possibly do harm but it sounds like the probelm already existed before this. I doubt that you ruined your dog from this one incident. Just learn from your mistake and don't be so hard on yourself. I will bet there are more people on here that have made similar mistakes than will admit it. That being said, I agree with the others that you need to find somebody that can help you. Also take GH's advice on force breaking.....Check out Evan Graham's dvd's.

Charlie

[4dabirds]

I agree with the force breaking comments of the other post . But before you go that route try changing the command . The dog may be associating the word with the correction. Start off by having the dog retrieve on land , say dead bird or any word you chose then say fetch . after a while the dog will respond to the word you said before fetch. Once you get the dog responding on land transition to the water. Remember the dog is place oriented so start out at a different location this should help to make it easier on the dog . Take your time with this. Frustration comes from a lack of knowledge and one of the most important thing you can learn is this is not a race with your buddies to see how fast you can train your dog.It is more like making a fine wine it takes time and energy . To put this into perspective no dog under the age of three has ever won the national championship at the ames plantation. That is taking into account the best breeding in the nation with the best trainers in the nation with the best handlers in the nation with some big money as well. If those people cant do it in less then three years working full time, it is kind of silly to put ourselves as amateurs under any kind of time table.

[Trekmoor]

I too would change the retrieve command word, the dog is most likely associating your present command word ...... and maybe visual command too ,with unpleasantness. It may also help if you go back a few stages and allow or even encourage a strong run-in on the training bumpers. Try to put the fun back into retrieving for the dog.

I can't comment on the F.F. approach , I never use it . Like you I've had temper losses and I still regret them. Dogs learn nothing but fear from temper losses.

Bill T.

[Trekmoor]

Meant to say in my first post. Be wary about using the same entry point, same bit of water you lost your temper at for a good while. Dogs often have a long memory of places where bad things happened.

Bill T.

[snips]

I would not go around the water for awhile and play on land...Let it get forgotten, the more you press it the worse it could get...Then maybe go back with another dog playing, hopefully she'll get into it..Just give alot of yeahs and atta girls.........This is man made and she needs some time to relax and have fun....You cannot pressure a dog that is dong it because they love it, or love to please you, when they are no longer pleasing you it is over. It is your job to build her confidence and let her know she is pleasing you...

[Vagabondo de Deserto]

What you need is a tough hard headed Lab. You try to rough them up & they'll bite you. No forced water method other than the one you tried & you can see how far that got you. Remember all dogs progress differently & it sounds like your dog is takin longer than most, no worries it's not a competition or if it is knock it off. You need to chill, back off, relax & have a good time with bumpers and not force it for awhile. Basically take it from the start again to gain her trust and when the time is right move on. We all learn these lessons usually the hard way.

Good luck

[gonehuntin']

She is 17 months old and a pro trainer isn't in my budget. What water force program do you suggest?

Either the Evan Graham Smart Fetch series or Fowl Dawgs.

You should have had these and studied them first. Now you have to educate yourself and you have some catching up to do.

[EvanG]

She is 17 months old and a pro trainer isn't in my budget. What water force program do you suggest?

What part of the country do you live in? If you're close I may be able to help you personally. If not I may be able to connect you with solid trainers in your area. First and foremost, learn about water forcing. It's relatively simple for a well force fetched dog that has had a full education in the process.

This is a clip on Swim-by. But bear in mind that each dog seen here was water forced first. If you have any worries about style watch these dogs go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-DGEq7u9ig

EvanG