Puppy Training Concerns?

[DogNewbie]

As I begin training my new pup, more and more questions arise!! Thanks in advance for the help!

What should my training consist of with a 3 month old GWP? We've been together a week and a half now and I've been doing maybe 10 mins a day of training. In training I focus mostly on sit and heel but I'm also taking time to kennel train him as well. However, outside of the 10 min training session I often feel like I am constantly training him anyway. Lots of "off" and "come" commands throughout the day. We also go for a 45min walk/run every morning and I i've started using a "leave" command when I want him to stop focusing on a squirrel or another dog. I'm worried I'm not allowing him to be enough of a puppy sometimes. I'm I expecting him to learn too many commands at once? Should I back it down a bit and really focus on one or two commands at a time and once he gets those move on? Any thoughts? Thanks again,

Tim

[RoostersMom]

I'm doing the same things with the little GSP pup I've got for now. She's learning housebreaking, some retrieving, intro to water and the great outdoors, off, here, leave-it, sit and working on whoa. They are like little sponges right now and as long as you can use the words consistently and they start to understand, I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Number one at this age is exposure to as many different situations as you can. Crying kids, home depots,motorcycles, bicycles, parks, an obedience class if you can find one you like, play days with friendly dogs - water exposure, different terrains, loading into the crate for trips... etc, etc. Just get him out in the great wide world and introduce him to everything you can.

[GUNDOGS]

As I begin training my new pup, more and more questions arise!! Thanks in advance for the help!

What should my training consist of with a 3 month old GWP? We've been together a week and a half now and I've been doing maybe 10 mins a day of training. In training I focus mostly on sit and heel but I'm also taking time to kennel train him as well. However, outside of the 10 min training session I often feel like I am constantly training him anyway. Lots of "off" and "come" commands throughout the day. We also go for a 45min walk/run every morning and I i've started using a "leave" command when I want him to stop focusing on a squirrel or another dog. I'm worried I'm not allowing him to be enough of a puppy sometimes. I'm I expecting him to learn too many commands at once? Should I back it down a bit and really focus on one or two commands at a time and once he gets those move on? Any thoughts? Thanks again,

Tim

as ive said many times people think at 3 months a pup should just "be a pup" BUT that in my opinion is true only to a certain extent as puppies are learning all the time and you can teach them MANY things without pressure, making it fun and bonding in the meantime without taking away their independence and puppy hood..just be realistics about how much the pup will learn at that age as its still a baby therefore in order to have a great training experience its best to make the training into games..for example you can teach a pup to retrieve at 3 months old no problem just sit in a hall way with doors closed and throw a ball down the hall and pup will bring it back without having the ability to take off..you can also take a 3 month old pup on a check cord and give the command COME and give a pull so the pup learns when you say COME what you want is to come to you and praise it up..you can teach WHOA by putting the pup on a check cord or leash and at feeding time put its food down and say WHOA encouraging pup to stay back until you say OKAY to release, this can also be used before being allowed to go outside, tell pup WHOA each time before going out and then release to go out the door..intro pup to water if you are able to and SOCIALIZE it to all people, sounds, environments, dogs and car rides..work on crate training and decide whether you will allow the pup on the furniture, your bed ect and stick to it....the main thing is you are right the pup is always learning and everything you do the pup is watching and learning BUT ive never seen a pup that couldnt handle a bit of training, the key is balance and expectations you have to be realistic on what a pup at 3 months can learn..also i will add that off lead walks in a SAFE field or school yard or wherever you can take it is a great way to let pup explore and become confident without you saying a word, only call the pup back to you if you need to, other than that enjoy walks and watch the pup quietly and you will learn alot about him/her .....ruth

[DogNewbie]

Thanks for the posts! It's nice to know I'm doing somethings right! Sounds like as long as I'm keeping that tail waging, no harm done! I'm planning on going out next week and getting him into a field with planted pigeons. Anything I should be careful about letting him do? i.e. chase flying birds, catch birds etc..

Thanks!

Tim

[RayGubernat]

Thanks for the posts! It's nice to know I'm doing somethings right! Sounds like as long as I'm keeping that tail waging, no harm done! I'm planning on going out next week and getting him into a field with planted pigeons. Anything I should be careful about letting him do? i.e. chase flying birds, catch birds etc..

Thanks!

Tim

Tim -

While it is not a huge deal for a 12-14 wk old puppy to catch a bird or even two, it ain't really a great idea either. Planting a pigeon usually means putting it to sleep and that will allow a dog to get waaaaay too close and catch the birds. This is not something you want to encourage because it will come back to bite you.

First of all, let's consider just what you are trying to accomplish. With a puppy of this age, all I would be looking for is to see what kind of drive and desire to find birds the youngster has. I would want to get an idea of what kind of nose the dog has, but that is very much secondary. I want to see iff the puppy has a fire in its belly, and if I cna fan that fire into an all consuming inferno. I want to awaken ALL of the desire a puppy posesses.

Personally I would rather set out a couple of quail or chuckar or even a hen pheasant or two, if I were going to use unfettered birds.

My first choice would be pigeons, actually, but I would put them in remote release traps and pop the trap when the pup came into the vicinity. If I was following on foot, I'd have a bag with a couple of pigeons in it and would toss one into the air as the puppy came around to me so the pup would see it and, hopefully, give chase.

If I were running the pup off a 4 wheeler or horse, I would have a bag of pigeons and would periodically toss a bird into th air out in front of the dog, encouraging it to chase. An area pro does this with his setter prospects to fire them up. It also has several side benefits that will bvecome important later on.

That same local pro gave me a great piece of advice that I will pass on to you.

PLAN your work. Then go out and work your plan.

Think about what you want to accomplish before you ever clip the lead on the dog. Set a goal for the session. Think about exactly what you are going to do to accomplish your goal, what you will need, how you will set it up and how you will execute. Think also about the things that can...and will...go wrong and how you should react. Training is all about timing. If you have a plan, your timing will be better because you won't be caught off guard.


Most important is to have fun. If you are having fun, so is the pup. Things usually work out better that way. A well developed sense of humor is a prerequisite for bird dog training.

RayG

[RoostersMom]

I let them chase all they want. I don't like them to catch the birds - others will be o.k. with that. If they do catch one, you just need to have a checkcord on the pup so you can reel him in. That way if he catches a bird, you can get him back to you before he might start chewing on it. Let him hold it in his mouth - good praise.. and then after he's pranced around with it a while, you can take it. Don't make the mistake of grabbing things from his mouth when he's young - he'll start to avoid coming to you with anything then.

Second Ray's advice on throwing birds out in front of the pup. The first few pigeons you can hold in front of him and let him get excited about them. Then let them fly from your hand. He should be interested in them as they fly. Do this a few times to build interest and make sure he's not afraid of the flapping and flying going on.

[DogNewbie]

Great advise! Thanks! Luckily I'll be guided by a fellow GDF member for this first field session so I'm confident he has a good handle on the dos and don'ts. My pup seems to be getting accustomed to loud noises already so we might start some gun training as well! I'm sure I'll keep coming up with questions as I go and I'm always looking for advise! Thanks again!

Tim

[Sharon]

As I begin training my new pup, more and more questions arise!! Thanks in advance for the help!

What should my training consist of with a 3 month old GWP? We've been together a week and a half now and I've been doing maybe 10 mins a day of training. In training I focus mostly on sit and heel but I'm also taking time to kennel train him as well. However, outside of the 10 min training session I often feel like I am constantly training him anyway. Lots of "off" and "come" commands throughout the day. We also go for a 45min walk/run every morning and I i've started using a "leave" command when I want him to stop focusing on a squirrel or another dog. I'm worried I'm not allowing him to be enough of a puppy sometimes. I'm I expecting him to learn too many commands at once? Should I back it down a bit and really focus on one or two commands at a time and once he gets those move on? Any thoughts? Thanks again,

Tim

Sounds good but I believe in letting a puppy be a puppy too. He's a baby at 12 weeks. Where do you take your 45 minute walk?..I think it's important to get pup into the woods/fields at that age, off leash if possible.

[DogNewbie]

I live in Minneapolis so there aren't great off leash opportunities within the city besides dog parks, and for some reason I feel like that's where good puppies go to become bad dogs. Not sure why I feel that way. Anyone ever hear of dog picking up back habits at dog parks? Reminds me of this kid I played rugby with in college who had turrets syndrome. He was telling me about these turrets camps he used to go to growing up because his parents thought it would be nice for him to get to know some kids that were going through the same thing he was. Well what ended up happening was that all the kids ended up picking up on each others ticks and all the kids ended up getting much worse. But yeah, I am getting anxious about getting him into a field where he can really go at it and explore and start to fuel the hunt in him!

[chicken19590]

You are taking a BIG chance teaching sit to a pointing dog as one of the foundation comands. For the first 6 months soialization is the most inportant thing you should be doing along with come, whoa, kennel and developing pray drive and independence. The last 2 may be more in the breeding than the training. I say take it slow and do not rush things, this is how the pro's train.

[4dabirds]

Read the book culture clash by Jean Donaldson go to George hickox web site read in previously published article first 20 weeks this will help you slot. George is a pro that does seminars for training hunting dogs. He is on the purina pro staff and has trained numerous high point dogs and field champions. In my opinion it would be best to build confidence in the dog at this age. Proper intro to guns and birds is explained in his video . It is important to realize acclimating to loud noises is not something that should be taken lightly. Watch the video and you will understand what talking about

[DogNewbie]

Great article. Thanks for the heads up. Could some explain why teaching sit is a bad idea? Will that teach the dog to sit instead of point or something?

Tim

[Ruffshooter]

Teaching a puppy to sit.
1) It is easy to teach so there is very little emotion on our parts.
2) A treat is usually involved so this is a good thing they learn early on, so when thing go wrong or we get frustrated the pup may sit as a way to do something right to alleviate the stress of the situation or
3) Dogs have a tendency to sit when bored or when things are not going well or added pressure is used to get them to comply.

Personally, I have seen these things and don't specifically teach the puppy to sit until after they have been on birds and pointing.

Then I teach sit simply because I duck hunt with my dogs and in NAVHDA UT test it makes parts of the test easier, at least for me.

I may not have expressed this just right, maybe some one more articulate than I can do better.

Rick

[DogNewbie]

huh, well, hopefully that won't come back to bite me in the butt. I've been having him sit every time I put on his leash and while he's waiting for his food. How can I back track with that?

Tim

[proudag08]

viewtopic.php?f=89&t=27954&p=254863&hil ... it#p254863

pretty good debate here... FWW

[DogNewbie]

Interesting debate. Ok, so I've decided I should start focusing more on whoa than sit. What are the best techniques for teaching whoa? Check cord during meal time?

Tim

[4dabirds]

Dogs when confused will irevert back to what the know best or learned last. During training of new behaviors a dog may sit when you command whoa only if the dog knows it better than whoa. It is ok to teach sit to a pointing dog just be sure that the dog knows whoa as his best command. In the hickox video there is an explanation of whoa training using a barrel. I find this method to be very effective because dogs learn things best when ther is a visual cue to help them understand what it is you want. I use clicker training where the dog is rewarded for offering behaviors that it is not prompted to do. This gets the dog to use it's brain to find out what behaviors get the prize. When the dog is in a training design it does not get bored because the dog is motivated to perform (hungry) it is very effective .

[DogNewbie]

Well I started some "whoa" training this morning with Briar. He did pretty good I think. On our walk he was wanting to chase some crows so I held him back until he calmed down, gave him some slack and every time he moved I gave a little tug to his collar and reset him. Did the same with his breakfast. I think for the first session he really started to catch on that the name of the game was not to move. I haven't started using the actual command yet though. I was kinda following this video's direction but I was the anchor and Briar simply wanted to go forward. Has anyone used the method shown here?

Tim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYCTo_o3WSM

[4dabirds]

I like the barrel better than the whoa post .instead of fighting the dogs nature to resist the dog stands Still to benefit the dog.

[DogNewbie]

Also, is there anything to be concerned about letting a 3mon old pup learn "whoa" while looking at birds? Am I teaching him to site point?

Tim

[4dabirds]

Also, is there anything to be concerned about letting a 3mon old pup learn "whoa" while looking at birds? Am I teaching him to site point?

Tim

whoa training comes first then birds . Do not give the dog a distraction that will make him fail.