Gunshot training?

[outdoorman]

I would like to see more written on the subject of introducing a puppy to gunshot, I have had several Llewellin setters that i have raised from puppy's, and everyone reacted differently to the sound of gunshot, i would start off by slapping my hands together, then shooting a 22 cal blank pistol, than later a 12 ga shotgun while shooting clay's.

[RoostersMom]

We tie the shot ALWAYS to a retrieve when the pup is learning. Starting way across the field with a blank pistol and retrieving a dead bird and move closer and closer - eventually getting to a shotgun at close range. This works very well. I had a great little snipet on youtube but can't find it now. Perfect Start really shows how to do it in detail. We've had great success with this method. So much so, in fact, that we get the "hey Stupid" look from the dog if we miss a bird in the field, they're so used to the gunshot=dead bird.

[4dabirds]

We tie the shot ALWAYS to a retrieve when the pup is learning. Starting way across the field with a blank pistol and retrieving a dead bird and move closer and closer - eventually getting to a shotgun at close range. This works very well. I had a great little snipet on youtube but can't find it now. Perfect Start really shows how to do it in detail. We've had great success with this method. So much so, in fact, that we get the "hey Stupid" look from the dog if we miss a bird in the field, they're so used to the gunshot=dead bird.

+1 on this. If I could add a little more to this, the introduction to the gun is just the first step. It is not about desensitizing your dog to loud noises. If the dog is sensitive to noises making noise around a dog will only exacerbate the problem. When training a dog, never do something to see what happens. Training is not about testing a dogs traits its about creating them. Dogs learn by association. This is misunderstood by a lot of people. Dogs use cues in there environment to determine weather something is safe or dangerous. The trick to dog training is that you want the dog to make the intended association. In this situation like rooster said the intended association is that the report of the gun = birds in the mouth. Making the intended association is best accomplished when you consider what the best motivation is for the dog. The one thing that motivates bird dogs is birds. It will be their greatest distraction as well. If this is their greatest distraction they will be less likely to transfix on the sound of the gun. In the beginning stage the gun is fired just as the dog is about to catch a clipped wing bird. As long as the dog does not show any notice of the gun you may continue. If the dog shows signs of hearing the gun move further away. As you progress from a hundred yards out with the 22 blank you should eventually be able to shoot the gun near the dog. It would be best to take your time with this , as a gun shy dog will not be a gun dog. If possible try to do this drill working your way up through the shotgun gauges. This would conclude your intro to the gun but it is only the first step. You should continue this training until the dog is making the association that a bird is forthcoming when he hears the shot. The introduction alone is not enough to guarantee the dog will not be gun shy. The intro and the association do not have to be done all in one day. Check out george Hickox web site . his video explains the process. He also has previously published articles that have great info in them .

[volraider]

In the beginning stage the gun is fired just as the dog is about to catch a clipped wing bird.

+1

[Greg Jennings]

I don't want them catching birds. I do shoot a cap pistol behind my back and at the ground at a distance from the pup when in full chase of a bird. The shot is thus associated with something super fun.

[volraider]

The most important thing is DO NOT take them to shoot skeet. If it worked in the past then you were lucky. Gun shyness is man made.


Brian

[4dabirds]

The most important thing is DO NOT take them to shoot skeet. If it worked in the past then you were lucky. Gun shyness is man made.


Brian

+1 on this I guess my post was too vague I thought I made this clear.

[isonychia]

I just shot a cap gun when I fed my pup once he got used to clapping hands and so forth, moved closer and closer, then when I was in the country would do the same thing with a 22 or 12ga.

[mxdad777]

DO NOT RUSH IT! It's okay if it takes a week to properly introduce your puppy to gun fire. And always have birds involved during this introduction.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

OutDoorMan,

This is the training technique we use, 1st we run the pup in the Grouse woods, letting the pup search and bump wild birds. When the pup is 35 yards out having fun getting familiar with his hunting habitat we fire a 22 blank pistol, most of the noise is muffled by the forest. We watch the pups reaction to the noise, we continue with letting the pup search and bump birds, until the pup is fully receptive to the blank pistol noise, this usually takes 3-4 day of repetative training depending on the individual pup, Setters sometimes take longer. As the pup matures a .410 shotgun is exchanged for the blank pistol, and the training operation repeated, the pup becomes receptive to the noise of the fired .410 or light 28 guage, the pups age and maturity differs with each individual dog.
The trainer must judge the pups maturity, and understand what he is looking at as the pup matures thru each training step, when the pup, who is usually between 8-12 months old (locks up) points a wild Grouse or Woodcock, the bird is flushed, and the Grouse or Woodcock is killed from a distance of about 25-35 yards,(no closer), behind and to the side of the dog, using either the .410 or 28 gauge with light shells.
Most times the young dog never pays attention to the fired weapon, keying on the wild bird, and instinctively retrieves the downed bird. From that point on, the pup understands that gun fire means dead bird, this learned imprint is very important. Next we progress to the 20 Gauge gun, then to the 16, and finally to the 12 Gauge double gun.
I like to hunt the entire 1st season with the 28 and 20 Gauge double guns with light shells, allowing the pup to fully mature before I go on to the 16 and finally to the 12.
We have never had a gun shy dog using this technique. All our gun dogs become super excited and hunt even harder when a shotgun is fired. Each different dog breed and individual pup takes to this gun fire introduction differently, some quickly some slowly, it all depends on the pup.
Good luck with your training.
RGD/Dave

Couple of mature Versatile Gun Dogs holding point on a Woodcock, during a training session. Repetative discipline on wild birds from mature gun dogs, is what we strive for, no matter the dog breed. Here a Small Munsterlander and GSP nail a Woodcock at the same time, and my brother makes them stand point until he is ready to flush the bird.

[gonehuntin']

Here is a post I made on a different board some time ago. It is about a gunshy dog, but the same method applies to starting a new pup. Disregard any reference to a person, it was written for someone on a different board.

CURING GUN SHYNESS

A dog is very much like a person. Your fear of one thing can be so great, it outweighs
your desire to do another thing.

In this instance, your dog would love to retrieve, but something about that loud noise
(gunshot) has him so concerned, that the retrieve becomes secondary to his fear of the
noise.

So how do we counter this? There are two ways really, one using birds and the other to
just subject him to the loud noise in a pleasant surrounding over, and over, and over, and
over until he learns not to fear the noise. Goose/stoli uses one method, I use the other. It
doesn't really matter how he was gunshyed, my guess is the 4th of July, either method
will eventually overcome his fear of it.

Goose/stoli likes one method, I prefer the other. I'll try and explain it so you understand.
Your dog is a BIRD DOG. He was bred, born, made, to hunt and retrieve birds. That IS
his life. It isn't being petted, watching TV, or eating. It is getting a bird in his mouth and
retrieving that bird. That desire overcomes every other desire the dog has, the desire to
eat, the desire to breathe, nearly the desire for life. It is the most powerful driving force
the dog possesses. Don't believe that? When the dog is eating, yell mark and throw a bird.
I guarantee he'll bolt from the food dish and grab the bumper. Same if he's on a female
breeding her and you throw a bird. I guarantee if he hasn't locked up yet, he'll jump off,
get that bird and return to his other favorite past time.

So what does this mean to us? It mean that we channel his most powerful drive and use it
to cure his greatest fear. By first throwing clip wings with no shot and letting that drive
surface and grow, and letting the dog have fun, we enhance the drive God has given him
then cure him of the gunshyness by using it. It is the fastest method I know of to cure a
dog of gunshyness yet build that incredible desire. If you get impatient and rush it, it
won't work. Here are the steps in order. There is no time sequence. You proceed only to
the next step when the dog is completing the step he's on at 100%. If you proceed too fast,
you can lose all of the steps and have to start all over.

1). Get the dog birdy. With no gun involved, have a helper throw a clip wing pigeon and
let the dog retrieve it. Start short at 50 yards and work out to 100 yards. Never throw the
birds so many times the dog wants to quit. About 10 times a session is fine. If you don't
have a helper, throw them yourself.

2). Good. He's birdy now. You have to restrain him and when you let him go, he goes flat
out for each pigeon, grabs it and comes back. He is insane to get the birds. Now we add a
gun and a helper. Have a helper stand 100 yards out in a BARE field with a riffle and .22
blanks. Start with a .22 crimp then go to the regular .22 blank. Have the helper throw the
bird in the air without firing and send the dog. Have the helper yell MARK before
throwing the bird to get the dog's attention. After the dog makes a couple of retrieves,
have the helper yell MARK, fire the riffle in the air with the muzzle pointed away from
the dog and send the dog while the bird is still in the air. You use a riffle because the
report is softer than with a pistol. A pistol directs the sound out each side and they're so
loud they even hurt your ears. Use a riffle. Did the dog do it OK? Did he show any
hesitation? If all went well, throw another six birds, firing a shot when the bird is in the
air and sending the dog.

3).Step three is exactly the same as step two, but shorten the helper to 90 yards. Each time
you progress to the next step, shorten it up by 10 yards. If the dog shows any hesitation,
back up 10 yards.

4). Now 80 yards.

5). Now 70 yards.

6) Now 60 yards.

7) Now 50 yards.

. Now 40 yards.

9) Now 30 yards.

10) Now 20 yards.

11) Now, for step 11, get rid of the helper. Now you take the clip wing, throw it, and
when the dog is in full pursuit, fire the gun with the muzzle directed away from the dog..
He should completely ignore the shot and dive for the bird.

12)Now repeat step 11 EXCEPT don't shoot the gun when the bird is in the air. Wait until
the dog pounces for the bird, his full attention on the bird, and fire the gun. Timing is
crucial and is everything here.

13). The final step with the .22 is to sit the dog, throw the bird with the dog sitting at your
side, and shoot the gun when the bird is in the air and send the dog. Did everything go
OK? Then we're now ready to introduce the shotgun.

To introduce the shotgun back right up to step 1 and do the whole 13 steps over again.
Sound boring and that it will take you a long time? It is and it does. That's why you pay a
pro so much to cure a gun shy dog. If the dog is not a bird-a-holic, you won't cure him by
this method. If he isn't a bird-a-holic, dump him because that isn't the dog you want
anyhow.

With a new pup, you don't have to be this careful, this is how a gun shy dog is broken. If
you get a new pup you break him to the gun differently, but that's for another thread.

You sound like an impatient, young lad to me. Patience. If you have no patience and
aren't willing to follow a plan, you'll never train a dog. Patience, common sense, a
progressive program, understanding, discipline, a good dog. That's dog training.