crunchin birds all of a sudden

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jimbo&rooster
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crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by jimbo&rooster » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:44 pm

All of a sudden at 2yrs old my GSP has started to try and eat birds. Last season he retrieved probly 40-50 birds and all were fit for the table. Yesterday I put out a few quail and he did a good job pointing but I only got one shot. He chomped it and tried to swallow it. I busted him and pulled it out of his throat.

Today I was out working him again and put out 1 bid and shot it and this time I had a long check cord on him and he started to chomp it as I reeled him in. Again I busted him and pulled it out of hit throat.

Is it time to force fetch him?

Jim
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:38 pm

I can tell you one thing you keep busting him when he has a bird in his mouth & you will have more problems then crunching birds.You keep hitting on him when he's around birds & he may start to avoid them all together.
FF will probably help you out but I've never FF a dog,never had to so I won't attempt to tell you how to do it when there are many experienced people here that do it every day.
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by Sharon » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:34 pm

jimbo&rooster wrote:All of a sudden at 2yrs old my GSP has started to try and eat birds. Last season he retrieved probly 40-50 birds and all were fit for the table. Yesterday I put out a few quail and he did a good job pointing but I only got one shot. He chomped it and tried to swallow it. I busted him and pulled it out of his throat.

Today I was out working him again and put out 1 bid and shot it and this time I had a long check cord on him and he started to chomp it as I reeled him in. Again I busted him and pulled it out of hit throat.

Is it time to force fetch him?

Jim
I probably would have done what you did unless I remembered as Vonzepplin said , that the dog quite possibly didn't know what you were mad about. "Is it because I found the bird?" We know what we mean but the dog doesn't. Are you feeding the dog enough? :wink:
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by snips » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:43 pm

I would put a very good HERE command on him with the ecollar..When he pics up a bird tell him Here, followed by a low nick. Dogs that want to munch birds are not coming when called, so you are reinforcing Here command, and getting your retrieve.
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by Dashin Gun Dogs » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:50 pm

There "here" command will most likely not work. You will need to have him FF, and I would shoot anymore birds until that is done. The only thing that will help after the FF, and if he still eats the bird is to "help him eat it." You shove it down his throat until he wants to spit it out, and hold it there. After 2-3 times of picking up a bird and you "help him eat it", he wont' swallow another one. I have fixed a couple from a certain string of pointers that were like that, and I know it works. I made sure I FF them first; I never tried it without FF first.
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by jimbo&rooster » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:20 am

Thanks guys. I have FF a few labs and had always intended to FF this guy too. I just wanted to get some other bugs worked out first. It just amazes me that he just started to do this. he retrieved pigeons all summer reliably, he has had about a month or 2 off from "bird work" and i have been running him on some wild birds to get him ready. and the first bird i put down after that he crunched it then the same with the second. I hate to see all of this happen a month out from the opener of what looked to be his first real season of wild birds....... I guess he'll go on the table starting tonight.

Jim
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by Dashin Gun Dogs » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:24 am

Depending on how your FF methods, I would be very careful of using an e-collar the same way I have seen them used on labs during FF. For pointing dogs, you want to FF them manually the entire way, and then you go back and introduce the e-collar.
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by jimbo&rooster » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:46 am

I have never used an ecollar for ff I like the ear pinch method and have had good luck with it on the 3-4 dogs ive used it with. This particular dog has never had great mouth habits. he has always rolled birds but never hurt one. I suppose it was just a matter of time.

Jim
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by Dashin Gun Dogs » Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:00 am

Jim, isn't it funny how you know when something is bound to happen. Good instincts. I always just FF all of my pointing dogs. If the dog isn't completely what I want after hunting, I can sell it as a finished dog.
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by RayGubernat » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:00 am

Jim -
Before you go into the FF whole hog, you might want to try something else that is a little less stressful.

Shoot a good sized bird, like a pigeon or chuckar or pheasant over the dog's point...leave the dog standing and go get the bird yourself. Bring it back andf give it to the dog with a fetch command. Let the dog carry it as long as they wish. Then have the dog give you the bird. wioth a give command. After a bit, give the dog another fetch command and let him carry it some more. If the dog lays down to eat the bird, command heel and make the dog carry the bird. Make the dog heel with the bird in its mouth and if it drops the bird, make it carry the bird.

Ripping the bird out of the dog's mouth might just encourage the posessive behavior. Allowing the dog to carry it around, and then requiring the dog to carry it around might convince it that posessing the bird is no big deal and ain't nearly as much fun as going hunting for another one.

Of course it might help if you fed the SOB. :lol: :lol: (YES I"M KIDDING)

Even if you decide to go ahead with the FF, the fact that the dog knows it can(and indeed MUST) carry a bird around and you won't try to play tug of war with it should facilitate the process.

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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by jimbo&rooster » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:05 am

A couple folks have joked about me needing to feed my dog, and while i know you are joking this has been a bit of concern for me. My dogs all lived in the house with me until about 6mos ago and they always had food down for them. when they went to the kennel to live after we moved, I was feeding them 2 times a day about 2 cups in the AM and 2cups in the PM and they all looked good. In the heat of the summer I cut them back to 4 cups a day but only in the evening when it was cooler. well since it has cooled off ive gon back to a twice a day feeding but that has only been in the last week. I had noticed since ive been starting to run my dogs again that he has been losing weight hence the going back to twice a day.

All joking aside is it possible that he might be hungry?

like I said I had noticed him starting to get thin and there is no signs of a health issue and he is looking good other than losing weight. I do take good care of my dogs.

Thanks Ray, I will try your method. he had been a fairly natural retriever up until this incident. I have had a few others mentioned by PM and a phone call to return this evening about it so hopefully ill get it lined out.

JIm
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by DonF » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:13 am

These birds he's taken to munching, how bad were they shot up? I've noticed dogs do one of two things on a goo pile. They either refuse it or eat it. Seldom they will retrieve it.
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by snips » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:30 pm

Dashin Gun Dogs wrote:There "here" command will most likely not work. You will need to have him FF, and I would shoot anymore birds until that is done. The only thing that will help after the FF, and if he still eats the bird is to "help him eat it." You shove it down his throat until he wants to spit it out, and hold it there. After 2-3 times of picking up a bird and you "help him eat it", he wont' swallow another one. I have fixed a couple from a certain string of pointers that were like that, and I know it works. I made sure I FF them first; I never tried it without FF first.
I have fixed MANY hard mouthed birds with the HERE command just the way I explained it...It is a last resort before FFing, but worth a try...Who knows, might just not have to FF if the dog knows he has to get his butt to you...And, you might pic up his food if you think he may be hungry...?
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by Dashin Gun Dogs » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:28 pm

Heck I don't look at FF as a bad thing. Everyone acts like it is a last resort. For myself FF is just part of training. I don't consider it "if I have too". It is a part of training and all my dogs go through it. Many of the Retriever folks FF all of their dogs, and those breeds are bred for retrieving. FF shouldnt be looked as at a last ditch effort. I understand for the novice trainer that it could be a last resort. As for a man like Jim, he has FF dogs and there is no reason not to complete it on this dog.

Why go to the field unprepared, when you can prepare and have a better suited hunting partner?
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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:53 pm

Dashin Gun Dogs wrote:Heck I don't look at FF as a bad thing. Everyone acts like it is a last resort. For myself FF is just part of training. I don't consider it "if I have too". It is a part of training and all my dogs go through it. Many of the Retriever folks FF all of their dogs, and those breeds are bred for retrieving. FF shouldnt be looked as at a last ditch effort. I understand for the novice trainer that it could be a last resort. As for a man like Jim, he has FF dogs and there is no reason not to complete it on this dog.

Why go to the field unprepared, when you can prepare and have a better suited hunting partner?
I'll bet there isn't one in a hundred retrievers or pointers that are owned by the common hunter that is FF and most of their owners don't even know what it is. And then there is me and a hundred more like me that have never FF a dog or found a need to. Does that make it wrong? Of course not, it is great for dogs that need it but a large percent of those are dogs that are being trialed and not the hunting dogs out in the upland fields.

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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by RayGubernat » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:26 pm

Chris -

I personally have never force fetched a dog, so, for me, it would be something to do when the other stuff ain't workin'.

I don't have a problem with it, but I just thought that right before hunting season might not be the best time. If it were May or June, it might be a great choice and make the most sense.

The method that gets you where you want with a dog with the least pressure on the dog is the one I want to try first.

If what Snips or I suggested works... job done and...let the hunt begin. The FF can then wait until next summer.

RayG

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Re: crunchin birds all of a sudden

Post by birddogger » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:57 pm

RayGubernat wrote:Chris -

I personally have never force fetched a dog, so, for me, it would be something to do when the other stuff ain't workin'.

I don't have a problem with it, but I just thought that right before hunting season might not be the best time. If it were May or June, it might be a great choice and make the most sense.

The method that gets you where you want with a dog with the least pressure on the dog is the one I want to try first.

If what Snips or I suggested works... job done and...let the hunt begin. The FF can then wait until next summer.

RayG
I agree that FF can wait but it can fix some mouthing problems and it is really not that hard to do, it is just time consuming.

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