Puppy barking - in kennel and in truck

[gdog]

Puppy (5 months) sleeps inside of a crate in the house at night. No issues at all. Spends time running free in fenced back yard, but is put in outdoor kennel when we are not home. Not long durations...few hrs at most. I have scolded pup for barking in kennel, but 5 mins later he's at it again. I do not let him out while he is having a fit. I'll try and wait till he stops for a short reprieve before letting him out. He is by himself in the kennel. Went to dinner with the wife..first night out in I don't know how long....and come home to pup having an absolute fit. See on caller ID neighbors have called....no message....pretty sure why they were calling. This was the first time pup was in the kennel while dark out.

Went hunting this weekend with my 2 dogs. Take the adult out and leave the pup in crate/truck. Pup has an absolute fit and barks/howls. Non stop. Go back scold pup...not 5 mins later at it again. Much worse in truck then in kennel. I could understand (at this age) a few minutes since he's not getting out to run....but I'm talking non stop fit in the truck.

My scolding is not getting the point across. He's too headstrong I guess. I have a bark collar....have not used it. He has had no experience with e-collar yet. I've been holding off using the bark collar and hoping as he got a little older it would mellow out, but this weekend in the truck was too much.

Is there any negative to putting the bark collar on a 5 month old pup at this point?

[birddog1968]

Stop the kennel barking first, its whats going to cause you the most trouble.....once thats done the same command should work in the car.

If you would like me to forward you in a PM how I do that (as taught to be by a well respected professional) I would be happy too, Ive posted it before but the flack just ain't worth it.....It works and it sets you up as someone not to be messed with (disobeyed), which is the way it should be.

I have two problems with the bark collar, one from a friends experience and one from personally seeing bark collared dogs.....not that they don't work wonders for some.....

[gdog]

Stop the kennel barking first, its whats going to cause you the most trouble.....once thats done the same command should work in the car.

If you would like me to forward you in a PM how I do that (as taught to be by a well respected professional) I would be happy too, Ive posted it before but the flack just ain't worth it.....It works and it sets you up as someone not to be messed with (disobeyed), which is the way it should be.

I have two problems with the bark collar, one from a friends experience and one from personally seeing bark collared dogs.....not that they don't work wonders for some.....

PM away...I'd like to see your suggestions. I searched on this topic and saw some of the past posts. I'm game to spend some time curbing the behavior (other then just strapping the collar on) if there are benefits to the method over another. I have already been trying to resolve, but it's coming to a point that some progress needs to be made and I'm not having much luck.

[Brittlver]

You should send a pm to me also. I would be interested in hearing it as well. I have a bark collar on my dog as well but don't like using it to much as it is rubbing her neck and causing it to become red. Stupid things. LOL

[pgidley]

Out of curiosity, would you mind sending me a PM as well?

[jimssetters]

Ditto on the PM please

[DogNewbie]

For the hunting issue, maybe try working the pup first so he's tired out when it's his turn to crate. Maybe that'll teach him that he'll always get his chance to hunt?

[displaced_texan]

Can I get a PM as well?

[nj gsp]

Forget the flak - just post it already! Or please send me a PM too...

[phoenix]

put me on that pm as well. im fighting this with my pup Jax too!

[proudag08]

Forget the flak - just post it already! Or please send me a PM too...

+1 No one can say you didnt try to avoid it...

[QuillGordon]

My boy started somethin similar while heading down the road in the crate in the bed of my truck. Three nicks from the e-collar is all it took and he hasn't done it since.

[jimmiya]

Could you pm me?

[Timberdoodle]

PM me as well please. I promise not a bit of flack from me.

[Lalospalo]

Can you PM me also I have a 10 month old who is starting to bark for no reason. I am am about to go to the bark collar but want to try as much as I can before it get there.

[cooperstorm]

PM me also.

[robbyz]

Please PM me aswell. I am having a similar problem. Thanks.

[dakotashooter2]

I have mixed feelings on the bark collar. I have seen them NOT work on as many dogs as they work on. I have had better luck using the e collar in conjunction with verbal reprimand. Particularly if the dog is already familiar with the e collar.

[Adamdirk]

i would appreciate the im too thanks birddog

[MNeric]

PM me as well? My 18 month old GSP whines/yelps when I walk out of sight in the yard and he's inside the fence. I've tried verbal and e-collar without much success.

[Xhipi1]

PM me also if possible or just post it on here. might be much easier for you . Thanks

[birddog1968]

man Im gonna have to start charging for the Pm's


Give me some time....I'll send em out.

[4dabirds]

I have a very simple solution to this problem. First you have to understand the simple reason it is happening in the first place. Since dog can not speak they have to work out ways to communicate what they want. The perception of this by many trainers is that ,it is an offense that is punishable. So the dog is trying to communicate what it wants and it gets punished for it. The problem with this is that in many cases the dog has been trained to exhibit this behavior before and was rewarded for the very behavior it is being punished for. This only confuses the dog. When a dog is trying to garner a resource wether it is his freedom from a kennel or or for a treat the dog will try different strategies . When a strategy works it clicks in the dogs head and the dog has been trained in the strategy. This becomes the dogs way of communication. If this strategy was ignored the strategy would quickly extinguish and an alternate strategy would take its place . The dog will continue to try new strategies until one clicks. The longer this trained behavior is used as a strategy the longer it will take to extinguish. Keep in mind that if a dog barks in the kennel and you wait for the dog to stop barking before you let the dog out , the dog will cue on your timing and the behavior chain for the dog will be to bark then stop and wait for you to open the kennel. So this is still training the dog to bark to get out. What the dog needs to learn is that there is no advantage to barking in the kennel and the cue for getting out is when you walk over to open the door. Some dogs will bark incessantly and take the shock from the collar because the motivation is greater then the punishment. What I do is roll up a small hand towel and wrap rubber bands around it. When the dog barks in the kennel I throw the bonker at the door of the kennel. I will continue to do this every time the dog barks, dropping whatever i am doing to go back to the kennel to throw the bonker. Eventually the dog learns the strategy only gets the bonker thrown at him. Over time the dog will learn to recognize the cues that get him out will be your regular routine and he will know when it is his time to get out.

[ibbowhunting]

id like to read the pm please

[birddog1968]

I have a very simple solution to this problem. First you have to understand the simple reason it is happening in the first place. Since dog can not speak they have to work out ways to communicate what they want. The perception of this by many trainers is that ,it is an offense that is punishable. So the dog is trying to communicate what it wants and it gets punished for it. The problem with this is that in many cases the dog has been trained to exhibit this behavior before and was rewarded for the very behavior it is being punished for. This only confuses the dog. When a dog is trying to garner a resource wether it is his freedom from a kennel or or for a treat the dog will try different strategies . When a strategy works it clicks in the dogs head and the dog has been trained in the strategy. This becomes the dogs way of communication. If this strategy was ignored the strategy would quickly extinguish and an alternate strategy would take its place . The dog will continue to try new strategies until one clicks. The longer this trained behavior is used as a strategy the longer it will take to extinguish. Keep in mind that if a dog barks in the kennel and you wait for the dog to stop barking before you let the dog out , the dog will cue on your timing and the behavior chain for the dog will be to bark then stop and wait for you to open the kennel. So this is still training the dog to bark to get out. What the dog needs to learn is that there is no advantage to barking in the kennel and the cue for getting out is when you walk over to open the door. Some dogs will bark incessantly and take the shock from the collar because the motivation is greater then the punishment. What I do is roll up a small hand towel and wrap rubber bands around it. When the dog barks in the kennel I throw the bonker at the door of the kennel. I will continue to do this every time the dog barks, dropping whatever i am doing to go back to the kennel to throw the bonker. Eventually the dog learns the strategy only gets the bonker thrown at him. Over time the dog will learn to recognize the cues that get him out will be your regular routine and he will know when it is his time to get out.

Tell you what I will send you an incessant barker, how long will it take, you send her back fixed by your bonker method and I'll send ya 1000 bucks and sing your praises. Not fixed you pay me 1000 bucks for renting the dog.

[Doc E]

Bark Collar



.

[birddog1968]

Bark collar is a mask if it works .....fixing it is another story and not possible for all dogs.

[Sharon]

4dabirds

Thanks for the post. If it works for you it is worth my saving. Well made point about what a dog will cue off of.

There are many kinds of bark collars. Some are one level of correction which is too much for some dogs and not enough for others. I used one for 2 days before I realized that it was correcting when the dog drank water. If you but one , get one with levels of correction and not too sensitive.

My Dad had 10 beagles in the 1960s. He kept a hose over the run (not sleeping area), that he could turn on and off at the house. One blast of that "coming from no where" did the job.

[birddog1968]

I was joking about the training vs Dog rental thing BTW ..... There are some that can be broke of it and a few that will always make noise......bark collar is a good option as a last resort. I like trying to fix it, and have found/learned a way that works and with normal nuisance barking usually works quick. Water under pressure delivered right is a powerful thing It's all in the delivery.

I'll send out a few more Pm's then ya'll got to trade em among yourselves.


Here I will say - some nuisance barking can be cured very simply with a sharp command and some water , hose or squirt bottle whatever works. Some more persistant barkers need more water directed sharply to a region that gets the point across better, sometimes right dead in the snoot. Then there are those that will make you NUTS and require you to get in the kennel a few times and lay it on thick until they submit all the while using your command and the water. Then there are those that are always going to make some noise even if you got the worst part of it under control....there's your bark collar contestants in the way I would do it.

Barking can get you in real problems depending where you live it can also drive you batty, I just prefer to fix it and have found and seen water delivered in the degree necessary to achieve the goal , dog fixed....Its just force breaking the barkers (you have to commit and do it for as long as it takes), with only the level needed to achieve results. It can save some dogs from being given away, surrendered , put down..... I'm not saying don't use a bark collar , I've always been saying try and fix it first. If a bonker on the kennel works, GREAT ! I find water and a command delivered creatively works best over a wide range....

[gotpointers]

I got in on this conversation kind of late. Someone please fwd the fwd to my pm. Thanks!

[4dabirds]

Bird dog I agree with you incessant barking may take more then a bonker. The dog has to perceive the correction as significant relative to the dogs motivation for barking. I was really only referring to training a dog in a kennel to sit quietly until you are ready to let the dog out. If the dog is incessantly barking I think it would be best to teach the dog to bark on command and reward that behavior. Once the dog was responding well I would train the dog to stop barking and reward that action. Now that the dog is trained to stop barking for reward and has a command in place, the correction for non compliance has meaning. When the reward is removed for the barking the silence becomes the rewardable behavior and the dog will stop using the barking as a strategy to get reward and the behavior will extinguish. Training other behaviors that are rewardable gives the dog more ways to communicate for reward as long as they are wanted behaviors on your part .

[MNeric]

Can someone fwd me the pm please?

[birddogger]

Barking is not necessarily or at least not always an attempt at communication. Some dogs just like to bark and need to learn that if they continue the unacceptable behavior, they are going to pay for it, whatever it takes. In some dogs, barking may never be completely cured.

Charlie

[dakotashooter2]

I have seen some dogs that will bark right through a high power stimulation yelping in between barks and I have seen dogs turned into a quivering bowl of jelly because the bark collar was not used/introduced correctly. Bark collars are not a cure all.

[DogNewbie]

I have seen some dogs that will bark right through a high power stimulation yelping in between barks and I have seen dogs turned into a quivering bowl of jelly because the bark collar was not used/introduced correctly. Bark collars are not a cure all.

A family friend of mine had a yellow lab, Homer, that they were told was a purebred (I think they rescued it as a puppy) but it ended up weighing close to 120lbs. He looked like a small horse. Anyway, that dog would bark all day long while he chased cows around and it got so annoying they finally bought a bark collar for him. Didn't slow him down a bit. He'd bark right through the highest shock, over and over and over...it would just sound a little raspy.

[birddog1968]

Well this is more for incessant non stop barking, but will work, delivered in the degree necessary , with any dog...you have to be willing to be inconvienced while you do this because you will be charging out to the kennel for awhile , keeping it consistent.

What I do is have the hose close to the kennel so you can grab it quickly.....pic a silence command, I use SHUT IT UP (in an angry growl). If the dog does not shut up with your chosen command, you need to charge down the kennel like a crazy man, grab the hose and spray full blast in the dogs face while saying your command (I use again SHUT IT UP). Spray the dog the first few days until its curled up in the corner of the kennel in submission. I like to get in the kennel right in the dogs face saying shut it up and spraying right in the snoot. spraying to the point of submission is important. Your wife kids and neighbors might think your crazy but it works. Soon just the command should suffice.

Sounds kinda harsh but the lesson will be learned quickly....after that the command should suffice but if it doesn't (some dogs are willful) keep at it with the hose, back them in the corner saying your command angrily while spraying the dog right in the face/snoot. Ive not seen any barkers continue to bark with this method. I have seen the incessant barkers will still want to vocalize and will but usually in a much more subdued manner....just stay after it. It is similar to Force Fetch....you have to go thru the whole process until its done and really only using the degree necessary to gain compliance.....the full crazy man routine is for those harder cases.

I had one who barked to no end, i was at wits end and about to put the dog down....this worked and while sometimes she would still like to bark she doesn't cause she knows the routine. I don't like bark collars because alot of times the dog learns how to vocalize around them or in squeals that are just as if not more obnoxious than the barking, I also knew a fella who's dog was in the corner slobbering in a fit because the bark collar was stuck on for goodness knows how long.

Alot of folks say well i tried the hose and it doesn't work....its the delivery and the submission that gets the point across.

PS. with lighter barkers or in the house sometimes the squirt bottle works, for a little more impact add the angry command and spray that squirt bottle where the pup gets the most displeasure, sometimes thats right in the nose.

I've been told,by some, I'm an animal abuser for using this method, i call BS on that. Pups better off quiet than put to sleep I think, or given away.....or worse.

Well there it is, nothing fancy I don't really want to debate it, or argue it....it works take it or leave it....

[birddogger]

I've been told,by some, I'm an animal abuser for using this method, i call BS on that. Pups better off quiet than put to sleep I think, or given away.....or worse.

I also call BS on this. It will work if you are committed and consistent and there is nothing cruel about it. A dog has to learn what is acceptable and what is not.

Charlie