Best way to teach a dog to go out

[mxdad777]

I have a 10 month old pointing lab and I would like to teach her a command to "go out". She is great at recall if she happens to get too far out and she quarters really well, but sometimes she hunts in too close. What is the best command to use to get them to go further out and how do you go about teaching it?

[cutty72]

Myself and the guys I hunt / train with use "back".

[nikegundog]

Myself and the guys I hunt / train with use "back".

Isn't the "back" command you use in training a directional command instead of a "go out farther and hunt anyplace command?

[cutty72]

Myself and the guys I hunt / train with use "back".

Isn't the "back" command you use in training a directional command instead of a "go out farther and hunt anyplace command?

Yeah, sorry, misread the OP's question. We use it when working on retrieves etc and the dog needs to look out farther.

[mxdad777]

Yeah, my dog does pretty good with casting (side to side or back) when I'm directing her to a downed bird or dummy, but it's when we're hunting upland game that she hunts too close at times. About half of the time she is fine and the other half she is too close. Maybe as time goes on she will figure it out, but if there is something I could be doing to teach her that would be great.

[Sharon]

I used the e-collar effectively to solve your problem. I had a dog that had previously been abused. This made her nervous about going too far . A dog that is called in too often will also hang back. Why go far out if you know you are going to be called in again.
Timing is everything on this. As soon as I saw her heading into to me, I used the collar on low+ continuous. The second she turned her head to go out again I let up on the button.Didn't take her long to run big as she was bred to do.

PS Hand signals are great for this too. Teach first in an enclosed area. The dog's coming back . You stretch your arm out and point left and turn your body and walk left. Keep the arm up. The dog will understand this quickly too.

[elkhuntingfool]

I purchased my pointer (female) from my friend and he said she wouldn't range out far - which was odd for a pointer. So...by dumb luck we planted birds pretty far away from her and then let her loose. We did this for a month or so and her range increased quite a bit. I don't know of a command that one could say to get to range them out further but this seemed to work well for me and now she ranges pretty good. My friend took her hunting later that year and she was ranging pretty far compared to when he sold her to me.

[kylemac]

I used the e-collar effectively to solve your problem. I had a dog that had previously been abused. This made her nervous about going too far . A dog that is called in too often will also hang back. Why go far out if you know you are going to be called in again.
Timing is everything on this. As soon as I saw her heading into to me, I used the collar on low+ continuous. The second she turned her head to go out again I let up on the button.Didn't take her long to run big as she was bred to do.

PS Hand signals are great for this too. Teach first in an enclosed area. The dog's coming back . You stretch your arm out and point left and turn your body and walk left. Keep the arm up. The dog will understand this quickly too.

Sounds like good advice -- and since I've experienced this too, I think I will try it -- thanks for posting.

Regards.

[gonehuntin']

Hold on there!! That may work with some dog's, but what you're really doing is creating a "hot spot" in your vicinity. I probably couldn't think of a faster way to create a bolter or dog with recall problems.

Getting a dog to work further away from you, if one ever will, can and usually is just a matter of planting birds further away from you. Plant birds in 100 yard increments. Plant them in the same place each time so when you cut the dog loose, he will KNOW there are birds out there 100 yards from him.

That's the way I'd do it.

Other than trash breaking, there is NEVER a time is use an ecollar without a command.

[Sharon]

Hmmm . Good point. So when the dog is heading back to you , assuming you have taught the hand signals well, you turn the dog with the raised arm and if he ignores you you use the e collar and keep your arm up. You plant birds farther out too. O-kay.

MXdad: You do want your dog to check in off and on but not come all the way back. Confidence has a lot to do with this too.

[RayGubernat]

mxdad-

Every single time I cut my dogs loose I use a certain whistle toot. When they are all fired up and with all that pent up energy, that specific whistle toot is their release to go. I started doing this to assure that at a field trial breakaway the dogs get out there in a hurry.

Over time the dogs are conditioned to that whistle command, so whenever I use it, they know I want them to grab a couple gears and move on out. There is no reason why it would not also work for you in the field.


RayG

[shags]

First you have to discern whether the dog ranges at a suitable distance more often than not, or whether hunting too close 'sometimes' is the norm.

If hunting close is her usual, while ranging farther is the occasional situation, then you could be faced with a lifetime waving your arms and tooting your whistle a lot more than you'll probably like.
Those old saws are true -'You can't push a rope' and 'You can take it (range) out of 'em but you can't put it in'.

If the reverse is true, then you have received some good advice previously; and as your dog gets ground time and into birds, she'll gain confidence and that will make a big difference.

[DonF]

Planting birds farther out is the way to go. I'd have one problem with sending your dog out farther. Your asking a dog bred to not be to independent to become more independent. You might get more independence than you want. If it were me I'd probably live with what you have now so long as it doesn't come in to often. In that case plant more birds and keep it going to the next bird. I'd wager that your dog come's in after a streach of birdless ground. It is as tuff to ask a Lab to act like a Shorthair as it is to ask a Shorthair to act like a Lab.

[slistoe]

mxdad-

Every single time I cut my dogs loose I use a certain whistle toot. When they are all fired up and with all that pent up energy, that specific whistle toot is their release to go. I started doing this to assure that at a field trial breakaway the dogs get out there in a hurry.

Over time the dogs are conditioned to that whistle command, so whenever I use it, they know I want them to grab a couple gears and move on out. There is no reason why it would not also work for you in the field.


RayG

It is amazing how quickly the conditioned response kicks in isn't it. However, what I have found is that if a dog has no natural inclination to "move out" in the first place it is difficult to impossible to put it in.

[RayGubernat]

mxdad-

Every single time I cut my dogs loose I use a certain whistle toot. When they are all fired up and with all that pent up energy, that specific whistle toot is their release to go. I started doing this to assure that at a field trial breakaway the dogs get out there in a hurry.

Over time the dogs are conditioned to that whistle command, so whenever I use it, they know I want them to grab a couple gears and move on out. There is no reason why it would not also work for you in the field.


RayG

It is amazing how quickly the conditioned response kicks in isn't it. However, what I have found is that if a dog has no natural inclination to "move out" in the first place it is difficult to impossible to put it in.

Scott -

So very true. If its in there, it will find a way to come out. If it ain't already in there somewhere, I for one sure don't know how to put it in.

RayG

[mxdad777]

Thanks for the replies. After analyzing this a bit further and talking with the trainer that worked with my pup, I think it's a combination of things that are causing this. 1. Too much obedience training by me at a young age. 2. The dog is not even 10 months old, she is still learning and building her stamina. 3. Last weekend was her first real hunt. I think this weekend I'm going to plant the birds out further and then just give her some time and see how it goes. If she is still hunting too close in a month or two I'll try something different. As her trainer told me....."just let her hunt and figure it out, she's a great dog and will do fine".

[gonehuntin']

Hmmm . Good point. So when the dog is heading back to you , assuming you have taught the hand signals well, you turn the dog with the raised arm and if he ignores you you use the e collar and keep your arm up. You plant birds farther out too. O-kay.

MXdad: You do want your dog to check in off and on but not come all the way back. Confidence has a lot to do with this too.

Sharon, the only reason I don't cast them back visually, is that mine are trained to handle, run blinds and do double duty as duck dogs. If I give a dog a cast, I want him to go all the way to a bird, or to go until I stop him and cast him in another direction. That's the only reason I don't do it.

[ACooper]

I have a 10 month old pointing lab and I would like to teach her a command to "go out". She is great at recall if she happens to get too far out and she quarters really well, but sometimes she hunts in too close. What is the best command to use to get them to go further out and how do you go about teaching it?

IMO no command at all would be the best, constantly talking to a dog (encouraging etc) can keep some dogs closer. Let the dog hunt, let her range and keep quiet.

[Sharon]

I don't know Mr. Cooper. I've seen many a dog at trials that is always coming back. One way or another I think we have to deal with that. jmo

[ACooper]

I don't know Mr. Cooper. I've seen many a dog at trials that is always coming back. One way or another I think we have to deal with that. jmo

You are right there are times where you need to drive a dog, but from reading the post and a little back history I feel like the best thing for this dog would be to keep quiet. Just my opinion but hard to diagnose from the limited info we get on the forum.

[ACooper]

I don't know Mr. Cooper. I've seen many a dog at trials that is always coming back. One way or another I think we have to deal with that. jmo

BTW... Mr Cooper??? You have me figured all wrong.