Pigeons?

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shtank
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Pigeons?

Post by shtank » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:45 am

I live in a small neighborhood and was wondering how loud a pigeon coupe is with the minimum amount of birds. Also what is the minimum amount of birds needed for training one dog(just worried my neighbors would complain). And how do you stop the birds from flying away? Do you clip there wings?

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by Greg Jennings » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:21 am

The best thing is to keep a small coop of homing pigeons. You get young birds and "home" them in your coop. Look in the Hall of Fame Posts forum for some good info. One dog, I'd say a half-dozed birds would be fine. They don't make a lot of noise. If you take care of things, they aren't smelly. About all your neighbors would complain about is if they hang out on their house, fence, etc. when they return to the coop. I limited this by always feeding the birds *after* training. I'd box them up, then put their feed out. If they wanted to eat, they had to get back in the coop.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by DonF » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:10 am

I'm hard of hearing, but not deaf. I have quite a few pigeon's around and only hear them when I'm in the loft's. Build a nice looking loft. You put a cardboard box out for them you neighbor's are more likely to complain than about pigeon noise. You might also make the roof at least 8' high and away from anything close they can sit on. I've noticed that my birds are either flying or sitting on the roof. The ferals are either flying or sitting on either power line wire's out back or on the power pole right next to the loft. I have never had one land on my roof and very seldom see then land on the machine shed near the homer loft.

For 22 yrs I've noticed where the birds land outside only so I could count them outside. Now it occured to me, with your post, there's is probably a reason they do land in certain spots. It's safer on the roof of the loft than on the ground. Have no idea why they don't land on the house. Both of my loft's are in spots where access to the house is not convienent for diving back into the loft. The power pole is real good spot to drop into the feral loft and the on roof of the homer loft, they generally hang out either on the re-entry opening side or along the edge on the re-entry opening side.

Please know that this is all theory and it's your own fault. I never though about where they land outside before reading this post! :D
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Re: Pigeons?

Post by t-setter » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:11 am

I just built a coop and have purchased four young birds. I'm currently feeding them cracked corn. Is this sufficient or do I need to buy some sort of pigeon feed?

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by DonF » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:18 am

I feed my homer's, pigeon feed consisting of grains and peas. The ferals have always got scratch. Recently the feed store got in some five grain scratch and they've started eating it. Seems they like it and it's quite a bit cheaper than pigeon feed. I did check into some pigeon feed that was pellet's made from vegtable matter. Cst as much as regular feed and didn't think my birds woiuld eat it. I gave them layer pellet's one time, they never touched it.
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Re: Pigeons?

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:21 am

t-setter wrote:I just built a coop and have purchased four young birds. I'm currently feeding them cracked corn. Is this sufficient or do I need to buy some sort of pigeon feed?
DO NOT feed pigeons cracked corn. If you are just keeping them for a short period of time shelled corn will keep them alive. If they are going to be around for a longer period and possibly raise a few young they really need a mixed grain formula and grit plus oyster shell. Or you can just feed a layer pellet or un- medicated pig grower since those feeds have all of the protein and vitamins the birds need to be healthy.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:26 am

DonF wrote:I feed my homer's, pigeon feed consisting of grains and peas. The ferals have always got scratch. Recently the feed store got in some five grain scratch and they've started eating it. Seems they like it and it's quite a bit cheaper than pigeon feed. I did check into some pigeon feed that was pellet's made from vegtable matter. Cst as much as regular feed and didn't think my birds woiuld eat it. I gave them layer pellet's one time, they never touched it.
If you are going to feed pigeon feed you cn dilute it with some shelled corn, white milo, black sunflower seeds, saflower, or some other cheaper seeds. The birds will eat the pellets if they are hungry. Thats how I tell I am feeding too much when they start leaving the pellets or the barley out of the mixture.

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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by DonF » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:49 am

Now that didn't occur to me. Mixing won't lower the protien will it? I like that part about oyster shell. I threw some out on the ground for my chickens yesterday and found my pigeons eating it. Usually I just keep red grit in the loft. Those pigeons really seemrd to like the osyter shell!
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Re: Pigeons?

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:27 pm

The extra grains I mentioned will lower the protein and raise the fat which is good for winter. That's why I include the pellets that are higher in protein. I am using rabbit pellets right now to increase the vitamins and green legumes during the winter and to keep the birds from getting to fat. A tablespoon or two of Apple Cider vinegar in a gallon of water once or twice a weelk is good for them as is a crushed clove of garlic once ot twice a week helps to keep them healthy with out using any medications or supplements that everyone ties to sell as essential.

Birds are like people and dogs and the less medications and supplements you use they will be healthier naturally as it lets their immune system work. And probably the most important thing is dry and well ventilated housing. Given this and you should be in great shape with your birds. I am a strong proponent of using common sense when caqring for any animal and that doesn't include spending the most money.

JMO

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by DonF » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:36 pm

I do add cider vinigar to the water. You mentioned that a couple years ago and I started then. I also give them green tea one day a week. Saw in a pigeon catalog where they sell teas for the birds so tried it myself. Haven't a clue if it works or not but haven't heard a pigeon complain about it! If either of these things help, I haven't a clue but they are cheap, don't hurt and I feel better about it!
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Re: Pigeons?

Post by pinebrookkennel » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:35 pm

Get white pigeons, the neighbors will think there white doves. When they ask tell them how blessed they were to see
Several white doves in one day. :twisted:
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Re: Pigeons?

Post by shtank » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:50 pm

pinebrookkennel wrote:Get white pigeons, the neighbors will think there white doves. When they ask tell them how blessed they were to see
Several white doves in one day. :twisted:
Good idea! I just thought of something. Is it a bad idea to keep the dog in the same yard as the coop?

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by pinebrookkennel » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:03 pm

We do not have any problems, once and a while the dog will run out to the coop when you don't want them to
Like at night or when your leaving for church. How can you blame a bird dog for going out and finding birds?
Make sure your birds are strong fliers so your pup can't catch them if there in the yard.
Make no distinction between practice and combat !
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Re: Pigeons?

Post by elkhuntingfool » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:13 pm

I agree with those stating to arm you loft with homers. A few of my hunting/training buds have em and they are great - no need to worry about trapping them when bird work is needed. However, you will want to trap some sky rats to shoot when needed.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by codym » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:51 pm

I don't know what im doing wrong with my pigeons. I got four racers and then mixed in some feral birds. Ive kept the racers in the coupe. Ive had about 6 babies, and I would let them go in the yard and they would fly around a bit and then go back in the coupe. When I took them down the road and released then (4) only one came back. Is there something i'm doing wrong? This has been a 8 month project and I figured I would have some good training birds by now but that hasn't happened and I'm getting frustrated.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:03 pm

Let them come out of the loft on their own and then let them fly around for a week or two before taking them any where. When the young birds start flying together in a group and possibly even leave for a while they are ready for distance training. A lot of the incentive for coming back is how comfortable they are in the loft. Make sure they have room, not too crowded, and are fed and watered everyday, and the loft is dry and keeps them out of the wind.

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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by codym » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:31 am

Ok I will try it. I was letting them go once or twice in the morning and evening and they wouldnt really go any where just hangout on the roof or telephone lines. They would eventually fly back in.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:48 pm

Sounds normal. I make mine get off the loft and go fly and if they don't I take them 10 or 20 miles away so they have to fly home. I wouldn't take your four that far though as you do lose some occasionally.

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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by isonychia » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:37 am

Where do you take the birds for training? Obviously a yard isn't big enough, but I would think somewhere too far away would leave the pigeon susceptible to getting picked off by hawks, etc. Also, can you get away with using public land for launching pigeons? I'm in CO now and things are much different than in NC, it sure would be nice to get some pigeons! I'm still just thinking of renting a place with some land this coming spring.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:47 am

I take them a mile or two the first time, maybe 5 the next 2 times and then go 10, 20, or further. You will lose some birds normally but most will get back if they are good birds. From that point they could go anywhere and be OK.

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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by codym » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:48 pm

Does it matter if my homing pigeons are breeding with my ferral pigeons? Does it dillute their homing abilities ? Will birds hatched from ferral parents home back to the place they were hatched just like homers? I didn't realize that I would need to learn so much to get a coupe started.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by DonF » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:21 pm

codym wrote:Does it matter if my homing pigeons are breeding with my ferral pigeons? Does it dillute their homing abilities ? Will birds hatched from ferral parents home back to the place they were hatched just like homers? I didn't realize that I would need to learn so much to get a coupe started.
I have only one reason for why I bought homer's. I want to go two or three hunderd miles from home to take dog photo's and be able to set the dog's up with pigeons, no other reason.

The ferals that get a bad rap, flying rats, are as good as homers for dog training, so long as you limit your distence. I used to take my ferals out to train 50mi from here and never lost much. What I lost was probably to hawks. I've had a few come home from right at one hundred miles. Unless your traaining more than about 50mi, I'd, I have used ferals. Never knew any better! And over the years I have had a couple cast off racer's from a guy I knew. I do think that crossing dilutes the instinct but on the other side it probably increases the instink. Won't come from as far away as pure homer's but will come home from much farther than pure ferals. There may be no such thing as a pure feral. I would suspect that racers that don't make it back sometimes ppair up with ferals and pass that instince on. Of course some just don't come home till late and some are hawk meals.

Somethong I have noticed since getting my homers is that I tend to baby them more than my ferals. Right off the bad, I found I had to feed real pigeon feed rather than hen scratch. I'm not ssure why that is! Don't discount ferals as nothing more than kill birds. You get your homers going and you'll find that at some poimnt, net to far off, your gonna have to give them away, sell them or shoot them! So for the purpose's of dog training, a feral is every bit as good. I might add that every feral I have here was hatched here and it's been that way for about 20 yrs.
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Re: Pigeons?

Post by isonychia » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:25 pm

Does anyone know off hand if you can release pigeons on blm lands in co

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by Croix » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:53 pm

My 2 cents,
Start with a proven line of homers. Lots of people claim they have homers for sale.
Stay away from feral pigeons, usually bring disease/parasites into loft.
In no time you will have plenty of good birds. Given you provide clean water, quality pigeon food and a clean, draft free loft.

IMO, ferals=problems

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:51 pm

Guess I have had problems for yrs.I have had both & cross bred them guess which ones exist the longest here at my place anyway!! :)

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by Croix » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:11 pm

Not saying they won't work, ferals that is.

But would you take a stray dog off the street and let in kennel with your dogs? Then let it breed with your dog?? The pups may work out??

Start with quality, end with quality. :?:

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:22 pm

Ok but heres a few questions wild bird Feral or Homers ? Domesticated Homers or Feral ? & which would servive better in the wild ? :)

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by fishvik » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:25 am

isonychia wrote:Does anyone know off hand if you can release pigeons on blm lands in co
Iso, Here in Idaho if it is a personal endeaver, training your homers, or training your dog it is ok. But if it is an organized club or competitive event, homer race or field trial, a permit is needed. I imagine it is the same in CO but check with your local BLM office. There is one at the: San Juan Public Lands Center
15 Burnett Court
Durango, CO 81301
970- 247-4874

I would also check with the state fish and game agency and see what their rules are.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by norcalshoot » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:10 pm

I don't mean to highjack the thread here but I am curious how long should new birds be settled into a loft before letting them out?

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by Croix » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:56 pm

If your new birds, are young birds that haven't been flown before you getting them. The best situation is young birds that haven't even looked outside at their previous loft. In this case, 2 weeks.
If you have older birds that have been flown before, may be 2 to 3 months.
Best situation is to have pairs of breeders, then fly/train with them.
All birds are different, some may never stay, some may be fine sooner
Hope that helps. Feel free to pm Me for additional info.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:02 pm

Croix wrote:If your new birds, are young birds that haven't been flown before you getting them. The best situation is young birds that haven't even looked outside at their previous loft. In this case, 2 weeks.
If you have older birds that have been flown before, may be 2 to 3 months.
Best situation is to have pairs of breeders, then fly/train with them.
All birds are different, some may never stay, some may be fine sooner
Hope that helps. Feel free to pm Me for additional info.
I guess I am a little more cautious. I would wait at least 3 weeks for young birds and i would set them outside in a cage for several days also. Older birds that have been flown can often be released but you need to give them a couple or more months and I like to do it when they are sitting on eggs or feeding babies. Be prepared to lose several but sometimes you get lucky and do better than that.

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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by DonF » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:11 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Ok but heres a few questions wild bird Feral or Homers ? Domesticated Homers or Feral ? & which would servive better in the wild ? :)
I don't think either would have much trouble surviving in the wild. I throw scratch down for the chickens and homers go for their share. I think there is only one thing that makes homers better than ferals. They come back from a lot farther away. They do do it faster but speed is not a concern for training dogs. I really do like my homer's, they are much less skidish than my ferals. If you were in the business of selling them, people don't like paying much for ferals. They are viewed as trash and extreamly expendable.Homers? Well you could probably find some around pretty cheap but if you have to buy, boy can they get expensive. Someone on one of the bird dog sites claimed he got a couple himer's from a friend and had to have them shipped. He was a bit upset when they ended up costing some thing over a hundred dollars!

Little inside info. I've been using ferals for training for about 25yrs. I have never bought a bird. What I didn't catch, I raised here. If I had bought a few pairs of homer's at the same time, there would never have been a need to buy them either. I was given three pairs last winter. They started nesting this spring, six birds, three pairs! This summer I lost three to hawks I believe, they didn't come in and hawk's started hanging around. Two never hatched out. Some how the eggs got cracked in the nest and they died, there were baby's in both eggs. Another baby was walking on the floor and a board, very small board at that, fel on it and killed it. One of the origional birds died, not sure from what. So three birds this spring gave me what would have been a total of 28 birds. Right now out there there are thenty two waiting for next spring. Ferals are just as prolific!

As for settling birds, best is to get upflown birds. Let them grow up then let them come and go. Settling older birds is another story. You can do it but you'll have some leave. I was told on a pigeon site that adult homers were all but imposible to re-settle. Well I wasn't sure what to do and finally just opened the trap and let them come and go with the young birds, didn't lose one! They came from a loft about 20 mi from here. Penned up here till they were nesting.

I do give birds to people wanting to start a loft. I've given a few older birds and they always get impatient and use them to soon. Then wou=nder why they won't come back. The last couple of people I gave birds to got squeekers. They were eating and running around on the floor, a few would even fly a bit. I told the guy not to let them loose till that patch over their nose turned white and then just let them come and go for a week or so. Third day he called me. he'd tried to get a couple to go thru the trap and lost them. They spent the night in trees around his place but couldn't find their way back into the loft. About four days later they went back in. I told him to keep some scratch on the landing board and maybe they
d come in. They did. Nothing is for sure with old birds but get young ones, while that patch over their nose is still pink and your chances of re-settling go up 100%
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Re: Pigeons?

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Like I said I have both but it seems the homers dissapear & the ferals just keep on producing & been here for yrs.I think the homers get picked off by hawks more easily then the ferals.I started with homers trapped the ferals they cross breed as I only have them to work dogs.The homers slowly disappered but the ferals still have a plenty.
A guy stopped by last summer & gave me about 17 homers but I'm down to 8 or 10.Doesn't really make a difference to me long as I have birds to work dogs & I have sold ferals know one ever asked for one or the other. :)

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by Croix » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:29 pm

I guess lezzie, don f, and von have all the answers. If looking for ideas of helpful knowledge. Pm Me

Sorry for answering any questions, should of known, someone would out type Me...

Keyboard is a lot easier then proven results!!

Sorry to any offened. Su

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Re: Pigeons?

Post by DonF » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:59 am

Croix wrote:I guess lezzie, don f, and von have all the answers. If looking for ideas of helpful knowledge. Pm Me

Sorry for answering any questions, should of known, someone would out type Me...

Keyboard is a lot easier then proven results!!

Sorry to any offened. Su
:?: :?: :?: :?:
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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