What would your expections be?

[Quailtail]

If you had a young dog with no prior training and was placed with a professional trainer for four months, 1600.00 in training fees, what would you expect your dog to be able to do when you picked him up?

[elkhuntingfool]

I would assume that's close to 3 months worth of training (nevermind - saw the 4 month mentioned after I wrote this) - I would expect that dog to be about 90% broke and one heck of a bird finding machine.

Assuming by your post you spent $1600 on training fees and your expectations weren't met. Did you get in writing what the trainer said would happen for your money? Did you get updates on how the dog was doing?

[DonF]

Just because you can do something with one dog in four months doesen't mean you can do it with another. And of course what you get done with one dog in four months another dog may do in three.

What does your dog do? How old is it?

[Kmack]

Assuming the dog is under 2 years old, I would expect a solid foundation (here, heel, whoa, etc) while the dog is under the control of a check cord or e-collar. The dog would also perform these tasks without the collar or cord but not 100% perfectly or 100% of the time.

I would also expect the dog to have been started on advanced birdwork (stop to flush, honor another dogs point, and if the dog is a quick study - steadying him after the flush).

I would expect the trainer to demonstrate that the dog will perform all of these with some degree of efficiency while under his control but it may not go so well for you.

At this point, it is up to you to understand what is required of you to move forward with your dog. If you don't feel you can advance him from here, you will have to decide if you want to accept the dog reverting back to old habits or if you want to bring him back for further training and polish.

[elkhuntingfool]

Just because you can do something with one dog in four months doesen't mean you can do it with another. And of course what you get done with one dog in four months another dog may do in three.

What does your dog do? How old is it?

While I agree with what you are saying about the differences in dogs - I would expect the trainer to at least lay out what they know they can get done and as the one paying - I would expect that. Had a friend spend about $1200 only to get the dog back and the only new thing was half whoa broke.

[gonehuntin']

When I was training, I told the clients that in four months, from an average dog, they could expect the following: Obedience consisting of HERE, WHOA, NO, HEEL, on and off leash. Basic force fetch complete of pile, no handling.

Working to the whistle in the field, two blasts change direction or break off a flying bird, three means HERE and now.

Quartering in the field, steady to wing and shot, steady to random flush.

I would not have worked them on honoring much, the random flush prepares them for that. They would probably not be steady to shot. Just being out of ff, they need a little happying up. If they progressed through ff well, I very well mgiht have them started on steady to fall as well.

Most of this would be yard work and training field work, they would not have had much or any exposure to wild birds.

[Quailtail]

The dog is not whoa broke, will not hold a bird and let the handler flush, will not retreive, will not heal. Knows no verbal commands. Starting to what appears to blink pigeons, will point for a second then move on. Has no interest. Worked him on a quail, same thing however a little more intensity and length of time on point. Still would not stand and let me flush the bird.

I would think after 4 months, a dog should be whoa broke, staunch on point, and let the handler flush and shoot the bird.

Should I try and get a refund?

[larue]

It would completely depend what the dog was before he was sent to the trainer.
Did he know what a bird was? was he naturally pointing? was he afraid of his shadow?
Was he well socialized ? Did he know his name?
What you can expect is improvement,the only answer you can get is from what you know the dog was and by asking the pro,what he did,and where in his program the dog is.
Some dogs take awhile to get used to a string,and until they get comfortable they cannot progress in training until they settle in,others just settle in and move forward.
The only answer is from your pro and where the dog was when you sent him.

[trueblu]

Couldn't agree more with Larue!! A dog with "no training" can easily be scared to death and can take a month plus to get somewhat comfortable with the surroundings, begin eating well again, etc. Maybe the dog has no point in him and has to be taught to point or IMHO, more or less "stand" his birds. IF the dog has natural desire to hunt, is bold, and has natural pointing abilities, 4 months should be enough time to get the dog holding his birds well, knowing whoa, here, kennel, etc., well acclimated to the gun, basically ready to hunt. I am not of the opinion that the average dog, which is often a dog that is going to take a bunch of training, is gonna go from not knowing birds, guns, or obedience, to broke.

[ezzy333]

The dog is not whoa broke, will not hold a bird and let the handler flush, will not retreive, will not heal. Knows no verbal commands. Starting to what appears to blink pigeons, will point for a second then move on. Has no interest. Worked him on a quail, same thing however a little more intensity and length of time on point. Still would not stand and let me flush the bird.

I would think after 4 months, a dog should be whoa broke, staunch on point, and let the handler flush and shoot the bird.

Should I try and get a refund?

Way too early to even think about a refund and no where near enough information to even think about it.

Have you talked to the trainer? What did he tell you when you picked the dog up and what were you supposed to work on with the dog? Sounds like the pup is too immature to be broke so I am not sure about whoa training either. Starting from scratch it is impossible to know how far he could get with your pup in that time.

Tell us what the trainer had to say when you picked him up?

Ezzy

Ezzy

[gonehuntin']

How did the dog perform with the trainer?

Did you go there weekends and get schooled by the trainer on how to work the dog?

No trainer can train a dog so well that a client can not screw it up. It was one of the biggest problems I faced as a trainer.

[DonF]

I had a guy bring me a nice little shorthair years ago. I kept him a month and when he went home he would whoa, recall and point birds. The guy was happy as could be when he picked him up. He went home and showed off for a buddy, yep, the dog did nothing right. He showed his buddy the video I gave him on handling his dog and the dog in the house with him started taking commands from the TV set and looking for me. He came back with his buddy and we put the dog down. Perfect! The problem was completely the owner not following directions. I spent about an hour with him when he picked up his dog and another hour when he came back. The guy could do it while he was here but forgot everything on the way home.

Take your dog back and see if the trainer would help you. Hard to believe that after four months all the things you say are wrong are wrong. Your talking about a dog that spent four months in a boarding kennel with that discription you gave!

[pinebrookkennel]

What did the dog know when you droped him off ? Let's start there. Imho your dog should know there name, know the come and
Heal Command, be started on whoa before you even think about a trainer. That's basic work you can do as a owner to save yourself
a lot of money.
It can take a month to get a dog steady to whoa that's 400 $ worth of savings right there. ASK QUESTIONS your the customer.

[nooblet]

couldnt agree more with gonehuntin. it may just be you. no offense, but it's why I'm glad I chose the trainer I did - he teaches the handler really more than he teaches the dog. good luck though, hopefully you'll figure it out.

[slistoe]

Firstly, if you went on a four month vacation and left the dog at a boarding kennel you would pay well over $2000 and what do you realistically think the dog would do differently when you got home?
Where you get in 4 months with a dog is very much dependent on the dog. Did a fellow a favor one time and took on his dog for 3 months that wasn't really working out for him. I told him after 2 months that we weren't getting very far - almost no change in behavior despite twice the effort I ever put into one of my own dogs. Anyway he was thoroughly thrilled when he picked his dog up because it actually pointed a bird and it turned to look at him in the field when he called - wouldn't recall reliably but he thought just looking was a vast improvement.
What I would want to know is how did the conversation with the trainer go when you picked the dog up? What was relayed about the dogs performance and progress. What was discussed beforehand as a possibility? Was there communication during the 4 months as to whether the dog was living up to expectations or was delayed in progress?