How to Limit Range of Young GSP

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mik
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How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by mik » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:11 pm

So had the 19month GSP out today on planted birds and it was like we had him crated for two weeks or someone lit a match under him for the first 2 hours.....Just seemed like nothing could get his attention other than a bird so I stopped trying and just let him run...when he found birds he was rock solid pointed on 4 out of six but he put up 2 off in the distance that I think may have been a runner and one he bumped cause he was workin/runnin too fast.....I did not reward this with a shot in either case :roll:
Not sure if he just had an off day to start and I should chalk it up to that or if I had something to do with his big ranging (guessing in the 60+yard area)...Maybe the grassy easy running field filled with pheasant scent vs the public woods he's been hunting grouse and woodies in as of late....
Anything to worry about? Suggestions for correction?
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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by slistoe » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:20 pm

Sound like a good day in the field to me. 60+ yards? - maybe as he matures and gains experience he will start to range out a little more for you so he can be a more effective hunter. :wink:

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by ultracarry » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:11 pm

I would encourage him to run further... you can always put an ecollar on him and hack him back. Much more exciting to watch a dog run and slam on the breaks.. teach the dog stop to flush, then you have a reason to correct him when he doesn't stop fast enough and bumps a bird...

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:23 pm

Try to teach him to turnwhen he get as far as you want him or teach him whoa and make him stop. Everyone is giving you a hard time because they trial and like to see the dogs range out a hundred to two hundred yards or even further. The bigger running dogs are great if you have fields big enough and cover light enough to allow the dog to cover that kind of territory and you still be able to know where the dog is. But in the small fields around your area it is pretty hard to enjoy a dog you never get to see or that is hunting on the neighbors farm that you don;t have permission to hunt. But honestly, sixty yards is fairly close for a pointing dog so I would work on his steadiness and not try to shorten him up much more.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by cjuve » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:57 pm

Get yourself a Garmin

They will come in handy in situations like this:
Image


In all honesty I would be trying to push the dog out a little more.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by brad27 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:20 pm

Like Ezzy said 60 yards is just out of gun range, right where pointing breeds become useful. I'd let him go futher. He'll cover more ground the futher he is from you meaning the less ground you'll have to walk on your own.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by slistoe » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:34 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Everyone is giving you a hard time because they trial
Yeah ezzy, you really know how it is going down don't you. A dog constantly inside of 60 yards is half ways to worthless when I am guiding people on throw down birds on my shooting preserve. Twist that one inside out.

By the way mik, with a young, inexperienced dog nailing 4 of your 6 birds and you working him as you did without shooting over his errors I think you are on the right track. Get the stop to flush down and you will have yourself a working dog.
Last edited by slistoe on Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by mik » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:35 pm

I figured I'd get a "little business" about my idea of range as I've read enough on here on how folks trial and hunt in big open country....I took no offense to any suggestion and understand and appreciate sarcasm...I think I'm on the right track for what I use the dog for and Ezzy's suggestion on gettin him to turn was my problem today...the problem being: me wanting him to pay attention to me rather than out covering ground finding prey ie hunting :lol: I think he really just adjusted his pace and ground covering to the fields we were in and not obeying simple obedience once i let him off of heal was what really annoyed me......I do appreciate the suggestions and helpful tips....really more about training me not to screw up the dog :D

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by slistoe » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:43 pm

It seems rather obvious that you have not worked your obedience in high distraction environments. Be careful how many times you repeat the scenario of you trying to call/turn/influence your dog when he is highly focused/distracted and WILL disobey. You will very quickly teach him that in some situations (the hunting field) obedience is optional. If a robot is what you really want stick with the obedience outside of the hunting field and increase the level of distractions and the variety of training locations till he truly believes he must obey anywhere, anytime and you can steer him to every planted bird. From your description though it sounds like your dog hunted, hunted hard, did not run off and worked his birds well.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:47 pm

Did I read this right ? Paying attention to you instead of finding game & hunting ? I must be confused ! are you hunting or in obedience class ? :?

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by mik » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:55 pm

Did I read this right ? Paying attention to you instead of finding game & hunting ? I must be confused ! are you hunting or in obedience class ? :?
Take it down a notch we've never met.

I believe a dog out in the field should listen to the hunter when told to come or to heal or to whoa.....which he wasn't doing at the start of today's festivities....he's a young dog and my expectation was probably too high for his level of training currently which maybe I didn't explain fully...I am not looking for a robot......

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by slistoe » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:58 pm

If you aren't looking for a robot you better be willing to let the dog hunt - and to learn that it can. If the dog ran like you lit a fire under him and only got 60 yards away I would say he is pretty darn focused on you already.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by mik » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:01 pm

The 60 yards was a guess he could have been out to over 100...
you better be willing to let the dog hunt - and to learn that it can.
And this is what I learned today from him.
Thanks again for your opinions

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:07 pm

+1 Slistoe Some people just don't get it !! We have never met but what has that have to do with anything ? If you don't like the response from experienced hunters you should have kept it all to yourself.
Don't ask for help or response unless you really want it. :roll:
Last edited by Vonzeppelinkennels on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by brad27 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:11 pm

Take it down a notch we've never met.
Lol.
Put your dog on the ground and don't have him "come" unless he is on property he isn't supposed to be on and don't tell him heal until you're heading back to the truck.
Keep your mouth shut and let him do what he was bred to do, hunt.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by Christopher » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:15 pm

If you don't like the dog I'll take him :mrgreen:

When my GSP was young his range was not much either. Once he figured out he could run big, find birds and hold them for me to shoot he started going way out. He goes out 100-150 yards now, just right for me, I run a beeper on him, not a problem.

Don't worry and fret, you've got a great dog. Look at all the birds he found and pointed. My assumption is, the more you run him on any birds (pigeons or wild birds) the better dog he will be. And FWIW, I try real hard not to tweet on the whistle and give commands every five minutes, that gets old real quick and might not encourage your dog to range out further.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:24 pm

slistoe wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Everyone is giving you a hard time because they trial
Yeah ezzy, you really know how it is going down don't you. A dog constantly inside of 60 yards is half ways to worthless when I am guiding people on throw down birds on my shooting preserve. Twist that one inside out.

By the way mik, with a young, inexperienced dog nailing 4 of your 6 birds and you working him as you did without shooting over his errors I think you are on the right track. Get the stop to flush down and you will have yourself a working dog.
The OP did not ask about the dog's worth or what you or I like in a dog. He asked how to control his range. Maybe you could help him instead of telling him that he isn't as smart as you and doesn't know how his dog should work to please you.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by slistoe » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:16 pm

Maybe you could try reading the rest of the thread ezzy and then park your anti-trial sentiment at the door and get around to just giving advice instead of sniping people on irrelevant, imagined pretense.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:29 pm

slistoe wrote:Maybe you could try reading the rest of the thread ezzy and then park your anti-trial sentiment at the door and get around to just giving advice instead of sniping people on irrelevant, imagined pretense.
I don't have an anti trial sentiment but I don't think everyone has to be like us. Trials are fun games for those that like them but they have a lot less to do with hunting dogs than most trialers want everyone to believe. I will take your advise about sniping though since you seem to be a master at it.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by wills1235 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:40 pm

Wow, glad i read this thread, lots of great conversation.
The best place to hunt is where the birds are. Next best is where they ain't. Anywhere else works too.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by slistoe » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:47 am

ezzy333 wrote:Trials are fun games for those that like them but they have a lot less to do with hunting dogs than most trialers want everyone to believe.
Ezzy
See, you can't give it up can you. My comments on this thread have ZERO to do with having been to a trial and everything to do with having an effective hunting dog - but your bias always needs an excuse to come out - even when we agree on the main point.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by terrym » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:41 am

Well I have to empathize with the opening poster here and agree with ezzy. I just got home home from a weekend of hunting ruffed grouse up in Northern Ontario with my pup. Well normally I coul walk up a limit in a couple hours here but when the dog was 25-35 yds away in the cover here you couldn't even see him wearing a orange vest. Quite a few times when his bell would go silent he was completely out of sight in cover so thick you could never close in on him without the bird busting out of sight. So in this case a 100 yd out dog would be useless. I needed a dog working slowly 20-30 yds which here would be classified as useless by many? I wonder some times if many of these dogs/hunters actually ever hunt forests or only open grassland?
I don't like people who don't like dogs......

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by slistoe » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:49 am

terrym - did you read the part on the OP that said he was in open cover?
Do you really believe that a dog going 60 yards in open cover will go that far or more in dense forest as you describe? Would be a weird dog in my experience if it did. Or do you actually know anything about hunting dogs in varying cover types?

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by birddogger » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:52 am

mik, he sounds like a really nice dog to me. You mentioned the easy running field with a lot of bird scent...Any good dog will range further in open fields than they will in woods and thicker cover, although it doesn't sound like yours is ranging too far at all. All the bird scent on a preserve will sometimes make a dog a little crazy too, especially a young one like yours and in the initial break away.

I wouldn't hack him very often if I were you....Just give a command when necessary and when you can enforce it. As long as he is solid on birds, I would suggest keeping quiet and letting him do his thing other than teaching him to turn when you want to change direction or to keep him out of trouble. I would also suggest to continue working on commands and overlaying them to an e-collar to give you a way of enforcing them in the field. It is also very easy to teach a dog to turn with you this way. Other than that, I believe experience for you and the dog will take care of everything.

I will say one more thing that I catch a little flack over but that's alright. If you want a close working dog, you are much better off getting a breed or line that fits those needs or wishes than you are with a bigger running dog and trying to make him slow down or work close.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by terrym » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:13 am

slistoe wrote:terrym - did you read the part on the OP that said he was in open cover?
Do you really believe that a dog going 60 yards in open cover will go that far or more in dense forest as you describe? Would be a weird dog in my experience if it did. Or do you actually know anything about hunting dogs in varying cover types?
No I didn't catch that part obviously. My problem is my dog ( 15 mth pup ) is not experienced yet in the hvy cover as most training is done in a field type cover around here and him being mostly field trial breeding is also a long and fast running dog. I have to say I expected him to do worse than he did and he in fact worked closer than I thought he would. I now see the utility of the new tracking collars and will be saving up for thet now.
I don't like people who don't like dogs......

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:16 am

I'd just let him roll. I hunt both grouse in Wi. and pheasant in SD. I don't care how far they go. I run an Astro on mine. It is nothing for her to be 80-100 yards out in the heavy woods. I just home in on her with the Astro. I don't know of many hunters that want to keep their dogs at 60 yards in the field, and 30 in the grouse woods, and no, I do not field trial.
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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:29 am

Did not read every post but"

I Ruff Grouse hunt and like my dogs out, Your dog is fine but may even go further if you are lucky, when there are limited birds.
Let that dog learn. You just need to do some handling drills in the off season. Again in the off season turn him into an honest bird dog and you will never have to worry about the range. Unless He turns into one of those 2mile prarie dogs. :wink:

You have no problem I can see.

Let him go.
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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by ACooper » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:35 am

The problem is the OP didn't ask what a "good range" or what everyone feels is a good range. He asked how to control HIS dogs range. Most people here will agree that as a persons experience level goes up so does the comfort level with a dog that runs bigger and bigger, but most people have to experience that for themselves and it takes time.

Mik good luck with your dog, do yourself a favor and don't just hack and shock the dog until it shortens up, I assume that you have not been doing that. Teach the dog to turn on a whistle/voice and "handle" him more, this should with a little work keep him shortened up. You will as you go become more comfortable want the dog to extend his search and you can do this with less handling.
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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by birddogger » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:37 am

gonehuntin' wrote:I'd just let him roll. I hunt both grouse in Wi. and pheasant in SD. I don't care how far they go. I run an Astro on mine. It is nothing for her to be 80-100 yards out in the heavy woods. I just home in on her with the Astro. I don't know of many hunters that want to keep their dogs at 60 yards in the field, and 30 in the grouse woods, and no, I do not field trial.
And it can save you a lot of walking. I would rather have the dog doing the hunting for me. I do know a few however, that want them working close. :?

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:13 pm

Well I think the responses are in direct reasoning as you point out as to let the OP know and try to help him be comfortable with what his dog is doing. To know when he does his formal training and the added info of handling drills and other work will help him control range and create an honest bird dog that he does not need to worry about. At this point into the hunting season there is not much he can do with out causing other problems. IMO
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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:40 pm

I may be mistaken but I think this is the same guy who was telling us about how much obedience he had been doing with his pup a few months ago,if that is the case it's no surprise he is still wanting the pup to pay attention to him instead of hunting.Control,Control,Control !!
But it's his pup, would have been cheaper to buy a remote controled pup at the toy store. :lol:
No more replies from me,won't change or help a thing. :)

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by Winchey » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:46 pm

terrym wrote:Well I have to empathize with the opening poster here and agree with ezzy. I just got home home from a weekend of hunting ruffed grouse up in Northern Ontario with my pup. Well normally I coul walk up a limit in a couple hours here but when the dog was 25-35 yds away in the cover here you couldn't even see him wearing a orange vest. Quite a few times when his bell would go silent he was completely out of sight in cover so thick you could never close in on him without the bird busting out of sight. So in this case a 100 yd out dog would be useless. I needed a dog working slowly 20-30 yds which here would be classified as useless by many? I wonder some times if many of these dogs/hunters actually ever hunt forests or only open grassland?
There are many effective 100+ yard grouse dogs.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by NorCalGSP » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:49 pm

Sound like a bunch of catty school girls. :mrgreen:

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by mik » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:58 pm

I may be mistaken but I think this is the same guy who was telling us about how much obedience he had been doing with his pup a few months ago,if that is the case it's no surprise he is still wanting the pup to pay attention to him instead of hunting.Control,Control,Control !!
But it's his pup, would have been cheaper to buy a remote controled pup at the toy store. :lol:
No more replies from me,won't change or help a thing. :)
I am not said person. Not sure where this came from. Perhaps some more research before throwing stones would be in order.

I am an experienced hunter of grouse and woodcock.... I am not an experienced bird dog trainer...I am on my second bird dog and was just lookin for some respectful insight or experience which I received.... thank you to those who provided it but some of you folks need to learn how to read and also need to learn some manners and basic social etiquette

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by ga shorthairs » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:30 pm

I run mine with a beeper and e-collar (e-collar is rarely used and is mostly for extra precaution). I also carry a whistle, I sound the whistle once means to check in with me, this keeps them in a range I'm comfortable with, Two sounds of the whistle means to come all the way to me. Ignoring a whistle gets a nick but usually is not necessarry.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by DogNewbie » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:27 am

gonehuntin' wrote:I'd just let him roll. I hunt both grouse in Wi. and pheasant in SD. I don't care how far they go. I run an Astro on mine. It is nothing for her to be 80-100 yards out in the heavy woods. I just home in on her with the Astro. I don't know of many hunters that want to keep their dogs at 60 yards in the field, and 30 in the grouse woods, and no, I do not field trial.
I'm also a grouse and pheasant hunter and in my experience grouse will hold in cover more so than pheasant. I've had issues with a pheasant dog holding point and the closest shooter not being able to get to the point before that bird has already taken off running. And this dog knows how to readjust point and everything. Anyone have similar experiences?

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by ACooper » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:42 am

DogNewbie wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:I'd just let him roll. I hunt both grouse in Wi. and pheasant in SD. I don't care how far they go. I run an Astro on mine. It is nothing for her to be 80-100 yards out in the heavy woods. I just home in on her with the Astro. I don't know of many hunters that want to keep their dogs at 60 yards in the field, and 30 in the grouse woods, and no, I do not field trial.
I'm also a grouse and pheasant hunter and in my experience grouse will hold in cover more so than pheasant. I've had issues with a pheasant dog holding point and the closest shooter not being able to get to the point before that bird has already taken off running. And this dog knows how to readjust point and everything. Anyone have similar experiences?
Regardless of what some will tell you, many pheasants will not hold for point regardless of how good your dog is. Just a hazard of pheasant hunting.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:16 pm

Here is what I have found out from my personal Phez hunting experience.The farther off a dog points Phez the more likely the Phez will run off.Dogs that don't point them untill they are almost on top of them the Phez will hold very well.I know that is contrary to what most of us strive for when breaking our dogs to point at first scent.Like I said this is from my personal experience with my dogs JMO.I have had dogs the would point them so far off they would rarely hold but have had dogs point them almost face to face & the bird would hold untill you had to almost kick it out.
I'm sure I will hear from skeptics but that's my experience.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:29 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Here is what I have found out from my personal Phez hunting experience.The farther off a dog points Phez the more likely the Phez will run off.Dogs that don't point them untill they are almost on top of them the Phez will hold very well.I know that is contrary to what most of us strive for when breaking our dogs to point at first scent.Like I said this is from my personal experience with my dogs JMO.I have had dogs the would point them so far off they would rarely hold but have had dogs point them almost face to face & the bird would hold untill you had to almost kick it out.
I'm sure I will hear from skeptics but that's my experience.

That's what I have found also. If the dogs get close and freeze the pheasant thinks he is hidden and won't move till forced.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:47 pm

DogNewbie wrote:

I'm also a grouse and pheasant hunter and in my experience grouse will hold in cover more so than pheasant. I've had issues with a pheasant dog holding point and the closest shooter not being able to get to the point before that bird has already taken off running. And this dog knows how to readjust point and everything. Anyone have similar experiences?
Yup, and I agree with the others, the closer the better. Other thing I do when possible is to cut a half circle around the pooch and come directly in at him from about 30 yards out. Seems to pin the bird between us and I THINK I get more shooting.

I also watch my dog's head as I approach. If that beak starts pointing right or left, I cut right or left.
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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by jcbuttry8 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:51 pm

You seem to be making a very common mistake. Do Not Give Your Dog a command you cannot inforce. If your not running with an ecollar, you shouldn't be giving commands in the field. Everyone is different. You can always pull that dog in but won't be able to make him run bigger. Let that pup run big. It is less work for you. Trust me, we all get that little pit when you pup is heading straight out and not looking back but that is what all the new fancy equipment is for.

I really can't help with the 60 yard issue. I had Kona out today and when she hit the birds, she got her fire lit and all I could see was a tail at 400 yards. She is 7 months old. let your pup hunt. If 60 yards affects you, you will definitely need a garmin to ease your mind. Good luck with the pup.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by slistoe » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:06 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Here is what I have found out from my personal Phez hunting experience.The farther off a dog points Phez the more likely the Phez will run off.Dogs that don't point them untill they are almost on top of them the Phez will hold very well.I know that is contrary to what most of us strive for when breaking our dogs to point at first scent.Like I said this is from my personal experience with my dogs JMO.I have had dogs the would point them so far off they would rarely hold but have had dogs point them almost face to face & the bird would hold untill you had to almost kick it out.
I'm sure I will hear from skeptics but that's my experience.
No dog should ever point upon the first whiff of scent they encounter (unless it is the up close and personal kind). The instinct is to move in to the "standoff" where he who moves first loses. Every species of bird has a different trigger point between the run/move away from danger, freeze to hide from danger and FLY RIGHT NOW! Given the opportunity most dogs can learn the difference and the good ones will always have birds off their noses. They don't get many wild flushes on Ruffies, and the pheasant will sit tight without running. Problem is that very, very few people will actually let the dog learn how to take control of their birds because the learning process involves making mistakes on birds and that costs us shots and embarrassment.

Of course with any bird in any terrain there are those that don't want to play by the rules and will make the best dog look bad.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by Winchey » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:24 pm

I agree. I like the dogs when you pretty much know where the bird is when you walk up on their point better than the ones where you know it is somewhere within 100 square feet. And the ones that never seem to have UP's. It is tough not shooting birds. My youngster decided he was going to take the birds out when I was 20 feet from him tonight. Kept my mouth shut and passed on some really easy shots. But at the tail end of the hunt we were both rewarded when he stood a bird while I crashed through the woods for 100 yards and managed to flush and drop a WC for him. That's what it is about.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by birddogger » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:41 pm

slistoe wrote:
Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Here is what I have found out from my personal Phez hunting experience.The farther off a dog points Phez the more likely the Phez will run off.Dogs that don't point them untill they are almost on top of them the Phez will hold very well.I know that is contrary to what most of us strive for when breaking our dogs to point at first scent.Like I said this is from my personal experience with my dogs JMO.I have had dogs the would point them so far off they would rarely hold but have had dogs point them almost face to face & the bird would hold untill you had to almost kick it out.
I'm sure I will hear from skeptics but that's my experience.
No dog should ever point upon the first whiff of scent they encounter (unless it is the up close and personal kind). The instinct is to move in to the "standoff" where he who moves first loses. Every species of bird has a different trigger point between the run/move away from danger, freeze to hide from danger and FLY RIGHT NOW! Given the opportunity most dogs can learn the difference and the good ones will always have birds off their noses. They don't get many wild flushes on Ruffies, and the pheasant will sit tight without running. Problem is that very, very few people will actually let the dog learn how to take control of their birds because the learning process involves making mistakes on birds and that costs us shots and embarrassment.

Of course with any bird in any terrain there are those that don't want to play by the rules and will make the best dog look bad.
Well said.

Charlie
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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by trueblu » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:17 am

As most know I am one of those hated trialers who just loves our complete run off idiot Field Champions. BUT, with that said, I understand the new trainer's fears of losing their dog, wanting to guide the dog around, to watch him work, to be able to control the dog to the extent that he is listening and following your commands. I do understand and I also understand that most don't hunt 10000 acre leases in west Texas where a dog will OFTEN range 1/2 mile plus. However, please do remember that a pointing dog is supposed to take you to birds and not you take him to birds. He should hunt for you but he should be independent enought that he ranges out of sight on occasion when he isn't being stopped by birds. So, before you get too worried about his running off or get too hot and giggly about wanting him in gun range, just remember HE does need to be bold and independent enough to hunt hard enough and range enough to effectively take YOU to birds. Once trained, he will them find them, hold them, handle them, until you get close enough to shoot. Most dogs who hunt in gun range and just too close to be effective in most situations. Most who want a dog that close buy flushers. Just be cautious about shortening him. You can always dog that later, once he is bold enough to be hunting effectively.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by birddogger » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:44 am

This is a little off topic but this is the second comment on this thread that I have heard the comment "hated trialers". I have been a member here for a few years now and I don't ever remember reading anything to indicate that. Sure, there have been disagreements and even heated arguments [usually because of not understanding the other person's venue] and I believe there are a very few who are a little full of themselves, but hated, no way.

BTW, trueblu, good post!

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by trueblu » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:40 am

Charlie, hated comment was somewhat tongue in cheek. But, it does seem that most times when a person recommends letting a dog be independent,bold, take them to birds, range, hard charging, etc. etc. that some will chime in with the seemingly obligatory, "well, we know how you trialers just love those run offs, we want our dogs hunting for us, blah blah blah". I don't put much credence in those comments. However, those of us who are FAT, hunt from jeeps, horses, 4 wheelers, on large large tracts, often forget there are those who do like a calm relaxing day in the fields with their pipe and their old side by side. In truth, most aren't adrenaline junkies like some of us.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:58 am

Charlie, when you said "full of themselves" you didn't mean fat did you?
How dare...

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:09 am

trueblu wrote:Charlie, hated comment was somewhat tongue in cheek. But, it does seem that most times when a person recommends letting a dog be independent,bold, take them to birds, range, hard charging, etc. etc. that some will chime in with the seemingly obligatory, "well, we know how you trialers just love those run offs, we want our dogs hunting for us, blah blah blah". I don't put much credence in those comments. However, those of us who are FAT, hunt from jeeps, horses, 4 wheelers, on large large tracts, often forget there are those who do like a calm relaxing day in the fields with their pipe and their old side by side. In truth, most aren't adrenaline junkies like some of us.
Gee, I never heard that trialers love runoffs, at least it didn't happen on this forum. I have heard a lot of people comment on not wanting a big running trial dog to walk behind in our 10 acre feilds or a couple of grassy fence rows between two fields of harveted soybeans. And I can appreciate that as I have been there. I do like to see the bigger running dogs especialy where you have room to see them, but for many hunters here in the eastern part of the country just have no place to use them and have no interest in owning one.

This in no way says one side is more correct than the other. It is rather that intelligent people want what fulfils their needs and can also appreciate what someone else wants. And it does not say either is the best dog or better than the other. It is just as simple as someone wanting what will fill their needs and provide a wonderful day in the field.

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Re: How to Limit Range of Young GSP

Post by trueblu » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:58 am

Isn't that what I said?

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