Training

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honestcharlie56
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Training

Post by honestcharlie56 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:08 pm

Hello fellow hunters,

Around this time last year me and my ol' lady got a little mix puppy for free. Mom was a english setter and dad was supposed to be a black lab....but nobody new for sure. So as she grew she got to around 35 lbs and I have been told by a vet and several people she looks like a black lab/american pitbull terrier mix. She is a wonderful dog and very very sociable and actually usually scared of smaller dogs lol. So onto the problem, I started working with her on retrieves very young and she was doing great.......learning very fast and having fun. I always kept the sessions short and when I lost my temper I would just get her to sit, giver her a treat, and then walk off (I hate ending a session on a bad note). So about a month ago I started working with her around another dog (a yellow lab) so my buddy sees Bella (my dog) making small mistakes and started a force fetch session. AND THAT WAS IT, ever since that 5 minutes of force fetch, she won't THINK about retrieving a bumper. She will however retrieve her toys, and have a great time doing it. Bring out a bumper and her head will immediately lower. I have been giving her treats around the bumper, when she holds the bumper in her mouth, etc. etc. PLEASE give me alittle bit of insight as to how to get her to retrieve the bumper again.

Thank y'all so much,

Nick
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RoostersMom
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Re: Training

Post by RoostersMom » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:29 pm

So you say he "started" a FF session. What exactly does that mean? Was the dog force fetched or not?

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4dabirds
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Re: Training

Post by 4dabirds » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:46 pm

dogs learn by association. The association the dog has made is that the bumper is a bad thing. Your friend has made sure of this. Get rid of the bumper and buy one that looks different from the one you have and let your dog play with it on its own. If you are planning to train this dog to have a flawless retrieve and that is important to you, then a proper force retrieve program will have the dog retrieving any item you give it including the first bumper. If you are doing fun retrieves with the dog, with any item and allow the dog to mishandle the item expect to put more pressure on the dog with that item , during force retrieve training, because the dog has been trained to mishandle it in the first place. I never do retrieve work with tennis balls because my dog has been allowed to play with them on his own terms around the house and there is no point in putting pressure on the dog to relearn something he does not need.

honestcharlie56
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Re: Training

Post by honestcharlie56 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:42 pm

RoostersMom: Thanks for the reply, he just set Bella up on the tailgate and was pinching her ear until she would "fetch" the bumper. At the point where she bit the bumper he would release the pinch on her ear. It seemed logical at the time, the dog would associate the "fetch" with the release of the pressure on her ear.

4daBirds: Thank you as well, I have also tried with different rubber bumpers, some duck dummy's, and different firehose style bumpers. If it looks like a bumper shes not interested. Like I said, I've been trying to play with her in a positive manner and giving her treats for playing with the bumper with me. But as soon as I heal her and I throw it, as soon as I point, snap my finger and say "Bella!".......she just looks at me like, ugh no.
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Chukar12
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Re: Training

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:37 pm

Charlie,

Force fetch is a process that takes weeks and into months to do properly. It is a proposition that requires the dog to submit to you, and the beginning stages of discomfort induced mouth opening is the most critical and disruptive stge for the dog. By starting it and stopping it i believe that you have created the bad association with the bumper and probably with you and the bumper in particular...your dog may be thinking "why does he hurt me when that thing is around?" When force fetch is completed the dog employs a solution to the discomfort and gains confidence, but again it is a process

Unless you are extremely committed to the task and understanding the process all the way through you probably have dug a hole you should leave be. I would suggest you either get professional help or abandon the bumper and go back to the natural retrieve and maybe even the treating with something other than the bumper. Best of luck to you...

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Aries
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Re: Training

Post by Aries » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:39 am

honestcharlie56 wrote:he just set Bella up on the tailgate and was pinching her ear until she would "fetch" the bumper.
So basically your friend didn't know what he was doing :!: If that's how he starts a FF program then he should leave other people's dogs alone.

Should have started with the very basic "Hold" and then to "Walk & Hold". This step may take a couple days or a week depending on the dog's personally and where it's at in it's retrieving. I would never take a dog from a fun retrieving session directly into an FF ear pinch, just my opinion.

I would put a shout out to Evan and get his feed back. http://youtu.be/Yd72kl9lZlc
Last edited by Aries on Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

adogslife
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Re: Training

Post by adogslife » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:50 am

A lesson to be learned here.

I would give the dog a few weeks to get over this and then start fresh with a program like SmartFetch by Evan Graham.

honestcharlie56
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Re: Training

Post by honestcharlie56 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:23 am

hey I really appreciate all the help y'all have provided. I will probably not seek the professional help just yet, as I think I can still get her to turn around. I will look into Evans instructions though.

Yet again, thanks
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EvanG
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Re: Training

Post by EvanG » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:22 am

honestcharlie56 wrote:hey I really appreciate all the help y'all have provided. I will probably not seek the professional help just yet, as I think I can still get her to turn around. I will look into Evans instructions though.

Yet again, thanks
This is a problem that, unlike some problems, you can take charge of and make it go away. Be thorough, methodical, and patient, and this period will become a memory. Let me know anytime I can be of help. I'll gladly answer questions as you go along.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd72kl9lZlc

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“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa

There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum

honestcharlie56
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Re: Training

Post by honestcharlie56 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:47 am

haha well the resident expert himself is here!!!! Thanks for the interest and the offer to help! Me and my huntin buddy went to the marsh to check on our spot this weekend and maybe see if we couldnt call in some ducks just to watch and get an idea for opening weekend (THIS SATURDAY!!!!!!) so we brought Bella and his dog along. While she has gotten rather lethargic with the bumpers at home and in the fields around our home, the marsh was like an instant wake up call..........she went nuts. I was actually worried for awhile because she was bringing me dead fish (dont know about her and small bones). I have taken y'alls advice and we kinda had a relax period with no retrieves and only the basic stuff (sitting at the door and letting the people out first, sit, come, heel, etc.) So HOPEFULLY I'll have a bird this weekend that I can use to play with her. So with the wise words of wisdom from this thread, some serious youtube time on the videos provided by Mr. Evan, and maybe reviewing the other videos I have.....I might just be able to make some progress with her. Sorry for the long post, I am just really excited about learning the right way and being able to actually expect results.
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adogslife
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Re: Training

Post by adogslife » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:35 am

The best action you take take to fix the dog's issues is to pick ONE method you are comfortable with and follow it through.

honestcharlie56
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Re: Training

Post by honestcharlie56 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:31 am

Ya I agree, I'm a young man myself...so I'm trying my best to understand that results come from a steady and not overbearing procedure.
Learning!

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