FF without a table or bucks

[isonychia]

I'm betting that I can do it without either of these, even though a buck is easy to make, plain dowels will work I think, and then bumpers, dummies, and wings. I'm not afraid to bend over to train my dog, I know its not the only use for the table as I had one before I moved and used it to do a lot of obedience training and found it made things progress much easier and faster, just saying I don't think you HAVE to have one to successfully FF a dog. I'll let everyone know how our progress goes throughout the winter, I'm taking it slower than most pros would because I am not a pro. Using skin pull for hold, and ear pinch for fetch starting out. So far hold is progressing well.

[ezzy333]

I'm betting that I can do it without either of these, even though a buck is easy to make, plain dowels will work I think, and then bumpers, dummies, and wings. I'm not afraid to bend over to train my dog, I know its not the only use for the table as I had one before I moved and used it to do a lot of obedience training and found it made things progress much easier and faster, just saying I don't think you HAVE to have one to successfully FF a dog. I'll let everyone know how our progress goes throughout the winter, I'm taking it slower than most pros would because I am not a pro. Using skin pull for hold, and ear pinch for fetch starting out. So far hold is progressing well.

How old is your pup?

Ezzy

[ACooper]

I FF with a 5 gallon bucket a wooden hammer handle the progress to bumpers. The wooden hammer handle started because that was what I had.

[birddog1968]

Sure you could do FF many ways, not sure why you'd not want to use the normal tools?

You could FF with only your hand as the object to hold, that would make sure you weren't using too much pressure, or you might end up with holes in your hand. But again not sure why not use the normal tools and a table to save your back???

As far as going slow, this I'm not a fan of, I believe in progressing thru FF with some speed in order to not drag out the process.


Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[isonychia]

I'm betting that I can do it without either of these, even though a buck is easy to make, plain dowels will work I think, and then bumpers, dummies, and wings. I'm not afraid to bend over to train my dog, I know its not the only use for the table as I had one before I moved and used it to do a lot of obedience training and found it made things progress much easier and faster, just saying I don't think you HAVE to have one to successfully FF a dog. I'll let everyone know how our progress goes throughout the winter, I'm taking it slower than most pros would because I am not a pro. Using skin pull for hold, and ear pinch for fetch starting out. So far hold is progressing well.

How old is your pup?

Ezzy

14 months, didn't want to do any retrieving work before shooting over him for a season, now the season is over. Want to FF before bird work starts this spring. Haven't gotten to the harder pressure of fetching yet so it isn't too late to back off if the general consensus is that this is too young, but knowing my dog and where he is at, I don't feel this is the case. As far as going slow dragging the processes out I can see where you are coming from and will keep it in mind. I just don't want to progress to the next step too early, if he gets "hold" though, and I spend a couple of extra sessions on it, there is very little pressure and much more positive reinforcement, whats the harm?

[isonychia]

But again not sure why not use the normal tools and a table to save your back???

I have a good back and no money?

[birddog1968]

No Harm probably....I just like to progress thru FF with some speed so the dog doesn't sour, not that i mean breeze thru steps but just to keep the process moving along with progress every step of the way.


Ive only ever used two wood dowels, a string, a few birds and a 16-20 ft table/bench.
No money might not change but the good back probably will eventually

[live4point]

But again not sure why not use the normal tools and a table to save your back???

I have a good back and no money?

[ultracarry]

For your sake and the dog... you might not want to take your time as stated above. I would wait till summer and make sure you have everything you will possibly need and go through at a steady pace.

[EvanG]

I FF with a 5 gallon bucket a wooden hammer handle the progress to bumpers. The wooden hammer handle started because that was what I had.

I also use a 5 gallon bucket to sit on while forcing. I force on paint rollers because they're lightweight, soft, and about the size & shape of a bumper or small bird, and most dogs take to them very well. I then progress to bumpers, and then birds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mxo6wdHl2w

EvanG

[ACooper]

I FF with a 5 gallon bucket a wooden hammer handle the progress to bumpers. The wooden hammer handle started because that was what I had.

I also use a 5 gallon bucket to sit on while forcing. I force on paint rollers because they're lightweight, soft, and about the size & shape of a bumper or small bird, and most dogs take to them very well. I then progress to bumpers, and then birds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mxo6wdHl2w

EvanG

I moved to a 5 gallon bucket after following your video.

[RayGubernat]

Paint rollers. What a great idea!

I have no burning need to FF my dogs but if I ever choose to, I WILL remember the paint roller tip. Thanks.

RayG

[isonychia]

whats the best/cheapest resource for those giant drums?

[isonychia]

Making progress so far with hold just on the ground with a lead tied on a tree branch and the dog backed up to a wooden fence. Doesn't like holding dummies and dried wings the most (wants to chew on wings) But I've gotten him to hold everything without chewing and not drop them when he "Thinks" I am trying to grab it. From all of my studying and video watching everything is going as planned. Moving on to fetch probably in a day or two the way things are progressing. I'm hesitant to use toe hitch for my first time but it looks like its is easier since the dog bites towards the pressure. So I'm going to use toe hitch because I think he will learn faster and be able to move on quicker.

[Coveyrise64]

Making progress so far with hold just on the ground with a lead tied on a tree branch and the dog backed up to a wooden fence. Doesn't like holding dummies and dried wings the most (wants to chew on wings) But I've gotten him to hold everything without chewing and not drop them when he "Thinks" I am trying to grab it. From all of my studying and video watching everything is going as planned. Moving on to fetch probably in a day or two the way things are progressing. I'm hesitant to use toe hitch for my first time but it looks like its is easier since the dog bites towards the pressure. So I'm going to use toe hitch because I think he will learn faster and be able to move on quicker.

I generally just use the bucket and ear pinch. The toe hitch seems to work best on a table with a cable overhead. The key is to get consistent repititions, if you are constantly struggling to control the dog don't expect your program to progress very quickly.

Coveyrise64

[SwitchGrassWPG]

Ear pinch, bumpers, treats, and lazy boy in the living room. No table, no bucks. Remember...there is no "right" mehtod to use, just what use what works for you and your dog.

[isonychia]

just bought a paint roller

[gonehuntin']

You're absolutely right, you don't need any of that stuff, it just makes it a lot easier. When I was young and dumb, I never used a table either. Now I'm older n' heck and senile. I throw a 3/4" piece of plywood 12" wide between two card table chairs and use a whacked off piece of broom handle as a buck.

Do it however you want, with whatever you want, just get him in and out in about eight weeks time at maximum.

[h&t]

Evidently Bodo Winterhelt 'invented' the table when he had back trouble.

[Cajun Casey]

whats the best/cheapest resource for those giant drums?

Check with a car wash. Around midnight if you want one for free.

[ACooper]

whats the best/cheapest resource for those giant drums?

Check with a car wash. Around midnight if you want one for free.

Bahaha

[mountaindogs]

OP, not sure you are explaining all the details, but sounds like you are jumping around way too much. Different things are happening, adding in wings too early, and "adding in fetch" is a progression of steps, not one. (opening mouth, leaning, reaching, then taking... ) Maybe you are not explaining it all, but be careful. Should be more like climbing a ladder with a little added each day to what you did the day before. I don't switch hold items until most everything is solid with the first item, and I don't add bird anything until the end...
All the best, and watch some videos and read up. Be careful, but stay consistant.

[isonychia]

OP, not sure you are explaining all the details, but sounds like you are jumping around way too much. Different things are happening, adding in wings too early, and "adding in fetch" is a progression of steps, not one. (opening mouth, leaning, reaching, then taking... ) Maybe you are not explaining it all, but be careful. Should be more like climbing a ladder with a little added each day to what you did the day before. I don't switch hold items until most everything is solid with the first item, and I don't add bird anything until the end...
All the best, and watch some videos and read up. Be careful, but stay consistant.

Yeah I've done a lot of reading and bought a DVD on it. I may not have explained everything thoroughly but I'm just going through the works on this thread and using it as my FF blog. I'm mostly following the DVD which does make use of frozen quail in just the hold stage. So far my dog still wants nothing to do with anything that doesn't have to do with birds, so the pressure isn't affecting his bird drive or anything. Anyways we had done some preliminary "hold" work before FF when I didn't know much of what I was doing so HOLD went very quickly. Started FETCH today and decided to go with ear pinch, something about rigging him up with a toe hitch I didn't like. We did 1 last HOLD session this AM, he held everything with no problem or hesitation, dummies, wings, paint roller, etc. Moved to FETCH and did one session around lunch which was his first, that one was a little hard for me and him just because of the pressure involved. However, by the end of our second fetch session this evening he has made the connection and is starting to fetch from my hand right in front of him much more quickly.

[birddogger]

Did you go through the walking hold process before moving to the next step?

Charlie

[isonychia]

Did you go through the walking hold process before moving to the next step?

Charlie

No, I guess there are a lot of ways to do it that I was unaware of. It makes it tough when you look for direction and a lot of what you get is "Go to a pro" I'm pretty much following the FF DVD from dogs unlimited, only I'm using the ear pinch. I did a lot of other things to temp the dog to drop on hold and he was doing perfect. Too late to go back now though. I can go back to that in the future I suppose if I need to, however now that we have moved to fetch he doesn't want to "give" as easily, which makes a lot of since and goes along with the DVD I am following. We will see how everything turns out in the next couple of weeks and I'll post a video on Youtube if it is a success.

[birddogger]

Did you go through the walking hold process before moving to the next step?

Charlie

No, I guess there are a lot of ways to do it that I was unaware of. It makes it tough when you look for direction and a lot of what you get is "Go to a pro" I'm pretty much following the FF DVD from dogs unlimited, only I'm using the ear pinch. I did a lot of other things to temp the dog to drop on hold and he was doing perfect. Too late to go back now though. I can go back to that in the future I suppose if I need to, however now that we have moved to fetch he doesn't want to "give" as easily, which makes a lot of since and goes along with the DVD I am following. We will see how everything turns out in the next couple of weeks and I'll post a video on Youtube if it is a success.

I hear ya, and if he is getting a little sticky on the give after the command, that is a good thing. It sounds like you are making pretty good progress. Good luck!

Charlie

[gonehuntin']

Being a little sticky with the drop is common when you're on the ear. Why drop it when you'll get you're ear pinched again?

There may be a lot of ways to ff a dog, but as far as I'm concerned, there's only one correct way. That is the way Evan Graham does it on his DVD. That's the way I learned it 35 years or so ago and it's still the best method.

[isonychia]

OK looking for a little guidance. What do you do when the dog you are FFing does great with the FETCH command out of hand, but when you put the bumper/buck on the ground/table he just paws at it and gives half "bleep" grabs/chews lightly on it? My guess is to just spend more time with the initial FETCH out of hand, but he does that great, reaches out 2 feet for in in almost a leap of eagerness.

[ST8 UPPOINTERS]

That,s where the table comes in handy! Maybe move to the tailgate of a truck where u have better control and work on the pick up from there.. That,s one of the reasons i'm not a big fan of the earpinch..Table and a toehitch is what i prefer..

[Coveyrise64]

Most likely he is used to seeing your hand on the bumper. When you just place it on the ground the picture changes and he not familiar enough with the step. With the bumper on the ground hold one end up slightly. Makes the transition to going downward to grasp something easier for them to understand. Follow the EvanG method, you can't go wrong.

Coveyrise64

OK looking for a little guidance. What do you do when the dog you are FFing does great with the FETCH command out of hand, but when you put the bumper/buck on the ground/table he just paws at it and gives half "bleep" grabs/chews lightly on it? My guess is to just spend more time with the initial FETCH out of hand, but he does that great, reaches out 2 feet for in in almost a leap of eagerness.

[isonychia]

Most likely he is used to seeing your hand on the bumper. When you just place it on the ground the picture changes and he not familiar enough with the step. With the bumper on the ground hold one end up slightly. Makes the transition to going downward to grasp something easier for them to understand. Follow the EvanG method, you can't go wrong.

Coveyrise64

OK looking for a little guidance. What do you do when the dog you are FFing does great with the FETCH command out of hand, but when you put the bumper/buck on the ground/table he just paws at it and gives half "bleep" grabs/chews lightly on it? My guess is to just spend more time with the initial FETCH out of hand, but he does that great, reaches out 2 feet for in in almost a leap of eagerness.

This is exactly what I was looking for, thank you!

[birddog1968]

Its worth mentioning that the dog will also read off your body language, if you expect him to drop a bumper he knows it and probably will. Its hard to quantify but your body language should read calm and confident, the dog will pick that up.

ie. if the dog takes the buck on fetch and you keep your hand under his chin to catch it if it falls he will probably drop it because he's reading that que.

[gonehuntin']

OK looking for a little guidance. What do you do when the dog you are FFing does great with the FETCH command out of hand, but when you put the bumper/buck on the ground/table he just paws at it and gives half "bleep" grabs/chews lightly on it? My guess is to just spend more time with the initial FETCH out of hand, but he does that great, reaches out 2 feet for in in almost a leap of eagerness.

Don't take the pressure off the ear until he has the bumper. You can't just go from hand to ground. With bumper in hand start lowering it to the ground a couple inches at a time until he is taking it quickly on the ground. Now, step on the end of the bumper where the air valve is with your foot which will raise it a few inches. Now command fetch and pinch until he grabs it. You may have to guide him to it with pressure on his collar and the ear at the same time. Make sure he understands every step.

[isonychia]

OK looking for a little guidance. What do you do when the dog you are FFing does great with the FETCH command out of hand, but when you put the bumper/buck on the ground/table he just paws at it and gives half "bleep" grabs/chews lightly on it? My guess is to just spend more time with the initial FETCH out of hand, but he does that great, reaches out 2 feet for in in almost a leap of eagerness.

Don't take the pressure off the ear until he has the bumper. You can't just go from hand to ground. With bumper in hand start lowering it to the ground a couple inches at a time until he is taking it quickly on the ground. Now, step on the end of the bumper where the air valve is with your foot which will raise it a few inches. Now command fetch and pinch until he grabs it. You may have to guide him to it with pressure on his collar and the ear at the same time. Make sure he understands every step.

Ok I though about this too but was just a guess, so that confirms what I was thinking, to lower it down with my hand.

Also, to answer birddog, I had to train him not to take these ques on the HOLD work, I would go in like I was going to take the bumper while telling him hold, if he dropped it, I gave no command and wen back through the works, he is doing good on that now.