GSP initial training

[MillerGSP]

Ive got a german short haired pointer pup, about 12 weeks old and I was wondering about the training techniques. Ive read so much about the breed, and its my first energetic breed of dog...
Everything Ive read about training is just that, reading, and I cant ask the author so here at your forums.
Ive got her to sit, lay down, and sometimea when I tell her to watch me, shell cooperate. Ill be working on all the basic obediance command
s and working handsignals in in the next month... And whoa break her. But after that, how do go with training her to get on birds? And to point more specifically? Shes still a puppy and keeping her attention on me at all times can be difficult. Thanks in advance, my names Chris (or call me Miller) and the pups name is Kona.

[Sharon]

She has so much to learn. Don't be whoa breaking her yet. Get her out in the fields and woods. Let her explore and get independent.
Work on socialization . This is the best time for pup to learn about cars, other dogs, kids, horse, loud noises ( motor cycles, backfires) etc...Lord willing , you will have this dog maybe 15 years. There is no hurry .

Then you need a plan. Consider the author Evan Graham. he is a member here so you can talk to the author.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/smartwork-dvd-set.html

[Cajun Casey]

I would never even consider whoa breaking a dog or even taking out chase until that dog is gunbroke all the way through shotguns. Six months is the youngest I do anything at all with a pup except having them come to me and go with me off lead.

[MillerGSP]

Me and her have a date this coming weekend with some wooded area and some fields. This is my first time raising and training a dog... Im going to try to observe and learn from her then as to what I need to help her with.
The main thing im wondering though, is whats the best method, in your opinion, to break her from being gunshy? My uncle trained my late lab with 2x4s, cracking them together until he didnt mind any more... Should I take the same approach?
And im not even going to attemp to whoa break her soon, I just think its a fantastic tool to have, especially with an energetic dog. Only been 2 solid days of obediance and shes picking most of it up quick.
Thanks for the replys

[Cajun Casey]

We gunbreak by having them chasing pigeons.

[postoakshorthairs]

The main thing im wondering though, is whats the best method, in your opinion, to break her from being gunshy? My uncle trained my late lab with 2x4s, cracking them together until he didnt mind any more... Should I take the same approach?

No offense to your uncle but it's a wonder that more dogs don't have issues from techniques like this. It reminds me of something I heard someone say after they botched a patients medical care.."they survived despite our best efforts".

We gunbreak by having them chasing pigeons.

Agree.

[Cajun Casey]

Your best friend right now is a pocketful of hotdog bits. Keep her coming to you with treats and use them to reinforce her standing still when you want her to. You'll be light years ahead when you start formal training.

[MillerGSP]

I do understand the whole 2x4 thing, be he didnt have time to teach him from the field. He was a contractor who took him to the jobsite him and worked with him there.
But thanks for the insite on it. Shes got alot more to learn before we get to birds but I want to know what im up against and what to do when its the time.

[trueblu]

Simple answers, she's far too young for gunshots of any kind UNLESS the dog will full bore chase pigeons. She's also in dire need of learning to hunt, to range, to be independent, to search likely objectives for birds, and if it were me, I would have not taught her to sit, lie down, etc. Honestly, I've never had a single dog that knew sit. But, I would ease up on obedience, except for HERE, KENNEL, and her name. I would find some hard flying jumpy pen quail or preferably wild birds and get her out, running with older dogs, to teach her to range. I am gonna bet that this dog will be slower to learn to be independent with the training you've put on her so far. Yes, I know, many talk about how they want to be able to control their dog. HUGE difference in training a lab versus training a pointing dog. And, yes, I know not too many hunt 10,000 acre ranches. But, no matter the desired hunting range, the dog still must be independent enough to hunt on its own enough to find birds.

Like has been said, get her out as much as you can. Let her run, explore, range, be independent, stay quiet, and don't hack her, let her run!! As far as methodology, I have never seen Perfection Kennels video but I do know Jon Hann and respect what he has turned out. Watch Delmar Smith, Ferrell Miller, Sherry Ray Ebert's videos, read Wehle, Delmar, etc. but please do not even read Gun Dog by Wolters.

Once she is ranging well, will chase pigeons with reckless abandon, then you can introduce gunfire, BLANK GUN, while she is in full chase.

I would also suggest finding a mentor with birds and some time to help.

[MillerGSP]

Im teaching the sit, stay, and down because I have a little girl, and because shes going to be in the house. Also ive heard they are decent when hunting waterfowl and I want to keep her in the blind with a little effort. I took in the lab I have and hes around 8 (vets best estimate) and hes scared to death of a loud noise, so hes just in the house to eat my food and get a good rubdown lol.

Kona still has her independence though. Ill step to the tree line and make a fire to stand around and let her run loose and explore, just dont have any birds on the ground where I live. But she loves to run and smell things. Im not shooting down any pointers im getting, believe me. Most everyone in heres has 3x the training experience I do so im not negative towards any criticism.

[postoakshorthairs]

I do understand the whole 2x4 thing, be he didnt have time to teach him from the field. He was a contractor who took him to the jobsite him and worked with him there.
But thanks for the insite on it. Shes got alot more to learn before we get to birds but I want to know what im up against and what to do when its the time.

Your getting some good advise. Like I said...I don't buy into the whole pot banging, board slapping thing just to do it BUT I do expose them to whatever i'm doing and don't act like it's a big deal. I built a building this fall and used every power tool they make. Even my young pup would come up and lay at my feet while i was working. If you develop a strong bond with the dog they'll want to be with you and will trust what your doing. If you introduce the dog to birds in a way he's crazy about them you'll have no issues with gunfire. I've always kinda looked at the pups desire for birds as parallel with a teenage boys desire for young girls...once the fire is lit they're so focused on the prey that nothing else will bother them...gunshots or angry boyfriends !

[ultracarry]

Simple answers, she's far too young for gunshots of any kind UNLESS the dog will full bore chase pigeons. She's also in dire need of learning to hunt, to range, to be independent, to search likely objectives for birds, and if it were me, I would have not taught her to sit, lie down, etc. Honestly, I've never had a single dog that knew sit. But, I would ease up on obedience, except for HERE, KENNEL, and her name. I would find some hard flying jumpy pen quail or preferably wild birds and get her out, running with older dogs, to teach her to range. I am gonna bet that this dog will be slower to learn to be independent with the training you've put on her so far. Yes, I know, many talk about how they want to be able to control their dog. HUGE difference in training a lab versus training a pointing dog. And, yes, I know not too many hunt 10,000 acre ranches. But, no matter the desired hunting range, the dog still must be independent enough to hunt on its own enough to find birds.

Like has been said, get her out as much as you can. Let her run, explore, range, be independent, stay quiet, and don't hack her, let her run!! As far as methodology, I have never seen Perfection Kennels video but I do know Jon Hann and respect what he has turned out. Watch Delmar Smith, Ferrell Miller, Sherry Ray Ebert's videos, read Wehle, Delmar, etc. but please do not even read Gun Dog by Wolters.

Once she is ranging well, will chase pigeons with reckless abandon, then you can introduce gunfire, BLANK GUN, while she is in full chase.

I would also suggest finding a mentor with birds and some time to help.

+1
I could not agree more.
The reasoning behind not teaching them to sit is you do not want them to sit when you apply pressure in training with birds.... if you teach the dog anything it should be independence .... if you can find a trainer to help you with the intro to birds and the shot for a couple bucks it is money well spent. I would intro to birds (pen quail) asap to build drive.

[DonF]

One thing hasn't been mentioned. While you with your pup, watch everything she does and how she reacts to things; learn to read your dog. One of the places people screw up the most isw learning to read their dog. Do that and you'll be suprized at what she can tell you.

I don't agree with everyone here nor do I disagree with anyone. Keep in mind there are a lot of ways to get to point B from point A. Most are the right way but there is pit falls to watch out for. Ont thing trueblu mentioned when gun breaking iss to let the chase get well under way. I could not agree more and that is not how I do it. We had a thred a couple years ago or so started by a guy thay though his dog was bird shy. We rolled it around awhile and figured out the dog was a bit gun shy. To test it one of our members that was close went out with him and concured that the dog was afraid of the bird making the gun fire.

[MillerGSP]

Thanks to everyone to chiming in. I could not be happier with the answers and guidence. She was a free gift to the family, so the only money I have invested is food, few things to chew on (Lord forbid she chews up my flipflops lol).

I have only been field hunting twice before and it, to me, is a better time than sitting in a blind... So this is something I really have my heart set on. This is problably a stupid question, but if she loves birds, will I be able to keep her by me in a blind for ducks or with me for open field doving as well as letting her run a field?
I know these topics have been beaten to death but I have read gsps accel and any type of hunting.

[RoostersMom]

Check out the Perfect Start/Perfect Finish dog training DVD. Jon and Cindy train and trial GSP's and love the breed. The Perfect Start is an awesome beginners CD for training your pup!

[Sharon]

Me and her have a date this coming weekend with some wooded area and some fields. This is my first time raising and training a dog... Im going to try to observe and learn from her then as to what I need to help her with.
The main thing im wondering though, is whats the best method, in your opinion, to break her from being gunshy? My uncle trained my late lab with 2x4s, cracking them together until he didnt mind any more... Should I take the same approach?
And im not even going to attemp to whoa break her soon, I just think its a fantastic tool to have, especially with an energetic dog. Only been 2 solid days of obediance and shes picking most of it up quick.
Thanks for the replys

This is not the time for gun training yet. When it is time PM Ray Gubernat and ask for a copy of his post on gun training. That is all you need. Keep reading.

[MillerGSP]

Not planning on gun breaking for a while, just asking questions while theyre fresh in my head. I just want her to have outdoor exp young and see how she reacts to the new sights smells and noises.
Im reading everything I can lay eyes on and its helping but sometimes it raises more questions but im getting there. Im really having fun with it, its an experience lol.

[steamer]

i dont know where you are but you could find a local navhda group and go to some training days. http://www.navhda.org/

[MillerGSP]

Georgetown, SC. More or less water labs are trained in the area.

[steamer]

http://www.carolinas-navhda.com/index.html

[MillerGSP]

I wish I werent on my cell, id be able to download the info from the link. But thanks everyone one more time for spoon feeding me. If I have any further questions I wont hesitate to shout for help.

[jgregg]

I'm in the same boat. 11 week old pup and working on setting him up to be a gun dog. I got the perfect start/finish series to borrow from another GDF member. Put a post out there to see if you can get the video. It helped me understand things a lot better and gave me a gameplan to follow which put me at ease.

[MillerGSP]

Honestly, money is very tight between my girlfriend, two kids, myself, kona, and duke so that doesnt sound like a bad idea. Otherwise id pay a trainer and visit on weekends to join in. I saw your post literally seconds after I posted this. Hows your pup reacting to everything?

And I found out she likes squirrels... Treed about 3 of them lol, but at least she knows her order in the food chain. Also a guy that works in the shop with me claims he has a field that some quails are nesting so noob friday shes going to run her heart out hopefully .

[trueblu]

Just remember, NO dog is born gunshy, they are made gunshy, by improper introduction to guns. Saw some idiot at the Dallas Gun Club a couple of years ago with about a 4 month old pup tied to a pole, while the world was shooting skeet. I will about gurantee that dog is now a housepet, at best.

I have never seen Hann's video but I know him well. Can't go too wrong with him. Where it does take time to train a birddog, it can be done on a budget. Just get creative, offer to help at a trainer's place, sweep, wash kennels, worm, catch birds, etc.

[DonF]

I would enciurage anyone with a pup and time to train to train it themselves rather than send it to a pro. You'll make mistakes but they can normally be corrected. But you will learn as much about what and why things mhappen as your dog will. If you used a pro, he'd be able to handle your dog and see cluster's develope and avoid them. But many times even the owner with the best intentions hasn't a clue. He can be taken completely thru everything for several days and by the time he get's home will have forgotten most of it. Training dogs is easy; training owner's is one of the worlds tuffest jobs!

[MillerGSP]

Oh believe me, im getting 90% of the training each day. Oh and I was wondering, is it normal for a gsp pup to go full blast for 45 mins, act like shes starving for 15 mins and then sleep for 2 hours and repeat through out the day?
And at about what age will she have pretty much filled out?

[Sharon]

Perfectly normal. Be careful about running the pup hard every day, There is bone/muscle injury when a dog or human works hard , and a dog needs the second day to recover.

Males can grow through to 2 years of age.

Females more like 12 months.

PS A pro is very useful if you come up against a roadblock in training.

[jgregg]

My 11 week pup does the exact same thing. Crazy for an hour, sleeps for two just a pup being a pup I suppose. So far he's doing good with everything I've thrown his way. He's scared of nothing it seems. I was walking him in a field to let him get some scents and develop some independence when a covey of quail flushed from downwind of us. I looked down and he had been on point even though it was only his 2nd time getting quail scent! He tried chasing the birds about 100 yards out and then ran back to me wanting more haha. Pretty excited about the future with him!

[MillerGSP]

So I have laxed off with teaching commands the past couple of days and I give her more room when outside. I have to say she doesnt wander far. She runs through the pines and come back periodically or if I feel shes gone too far (live in a neighborhood) I just call and she comes running to me.
I feel like this is a pretty good move considering shes full of energy (and being a puppy shes got to use it on what SHE wants). Like I should reenforce what ive taught her for month, field her, and then continue in a month or so. She knows im daddy and from how she was 2 weeks ago til now, ill work with that.

[rinker]

Two things that I do not see mentioned yet.

When you are running her in the woods or fields let her get out from you a little ways and then step behind a tree/bush and be quiet. Make her find you. Change directions frequently and do not say anything. Again, make her find you. Later in life, you want the dog to go with you and stay in contact with you, not the other way around.

I agree that the pup is too young for gunfire. I think the biggest mistake people make with gundogs that are also pets is that the first time there is thunder or a truck backfires or something the owner scoops up the pet and babies it. The first time there is some loud noise that seems to bother the pup, act like it never happened. The pup takes a lot of cues from you, if it seemingly upsets you, it will upset her.