e-collar what to do?

mister2 · Post by **mister2** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:04 pm

Ok I got a TT Sport Basic e-collar a few days ago. I put it on the dog for a few hours at a time over a few days to condition him to wearing it. During that time I didn't use it. He's never had e-collar before. The commands he knows are Heel (on-leash only), stay, down, here. He knows them very well and responds 99% even off leash. I also have the Perfect start video and am trying to follow their method of e-collar training but my question is do I still need to go back to the check cord to introduce the e-collar even though he already responds very good off-leash without the e-collar.

I think I may have already created a problem. Last night I followed the instructions on determining the correct level of stimulation. He needs a 2. I proceeded to start training the "here" command using the check cord. I would follow the instructions in the PS video by saying here, light jerk on the cord, and shock all at the same time. The thing is, he already responds to the command without the shock so do I still need to shock him when I give the command? Is this how you condition them to ecollar? After about 4 times of giving the command my dog would not leave my side. I decided to give him the stay command (no shock), start to walk away and he would disobey the command and follow me. Is it because he's confused or scared of getting shocked or both. How do I proceed?

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:49 pm

Now I'm confused.

If he is refusing to leave your side when you are using the e-collar , then I would feel that the level was too high.

The point of it all is to help the dog learn that by obeying he can turn off the e-collar.

I'm sure you'll get a better answer than this.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:04 pm

With the dog doing as well as you say, even off leash, you might want to consider leaving the e-collar off! He is reacting to the shock for doing what he already does correctly. You tell him to stay and walk away and he already know's when you call him he's gonna get shocked. Thats what he's reacting to, he is avoiding the shock. You have thrown him a curve. If you want to leave it on, don't turn it on and don't carry the transmitter. Go do some happy time stuff and leave the work stuff at home awhile.

mister2 · Post by **mister2** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:46 pm

Thanks DonF that's exactly what I was thinking. I would do the same if I was the dog. I think he knew I was gonna walk away and call him to me and just shock him. But that's what they did in the videos too that's what I don't get. Trust me I didn't need the extra cost of an e-collar and like I said, he's already very good but the only reason I got it was because I take him running off-leash at the parks where there's sometimes other dogs and I just wanted a little insurance he'll come when called when there is major distraction. Right now he just stands there and looks but you can tell he really wants to go bad (that day will come I'm sure). He's good with dogs and people but I don't trust other people's dogs. Also in the chance that he might chase deer, which is only a matter of time as well. My next question is IF I don't train using the e-collar, then shock him in the field for disobeying a command how then will he know what he did wrong?

Sharon, even at level 2 stimulation when he came in he would do a head shake so maybe even that was too high.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:02 pm

I would think a lot of dogs will obey a command with minimum stimulation. Let's just say you did an intro to the collar. Not saying its wrong but you already did it and you are following a program (great thing to do). Don't go to something else and ignore your process you already started, follow through with it. A lot of people start a program, then stop and try something else, then try another when they didn't like a step, then try another.....etc. stick with it and you will have a better dog for it. The only thing I would do is use less stimulation and turn it up if he doesn't react.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:45 pm

Every dog I've ever owned for the last 45 years has been a full blown collar dog, retriever or pointing dog. I don't care how well trained you think a dog is, one day he'll give you the paw and take off. The ecollar is the greatest safety aid ever invented for the dog trainer, the Astro is the second.

You have to work him on ALL commands with the collar, not just one. The dog must understand that the collar is nothing more than an extension of the cc, leash, or heeling stick. Every command he knows on the cc must be transfered to the ecollar. He must sit, down, come, fetch, heel, whoa, etc and all by ecollar.

Stimulate him only about once every three commands. If you only work him on one command, like here, that will become his default command and no matter the command, he will always come to you. That's why ALL commands must be reinforced by collar. The cc attached is your safety insurance that the dog won't bolt and run off on you.

It's really a simple procedure as long as you work at low intensity.

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:27 pm

Quick question. If your dog is 99% reliable then why did you buy a collar to begin with? I have dogs here that aren't 99% reliable with a collar ON them let alone with no collar. Why would you want a robot? This is what you are trying to create by making your dog 100% reliable. I don't ever want a dog that doesn't at least think about doing something stupid from time to time.

Tell you what if you have kids or a wife try this. Call their name and when they start to come to you walk over to them and smack them in the face. This is what you are doing to your dog.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:34 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:Every dog I've ever owned for the last 45 years has been a full blown collar dog, retriever or pointing dog. I don't care how well trained you think a dog is, one day he'll give you the paw and take off. The ecollar is the greatest safety aid ever invented for the dog trainer, the Astro is the second.

You have to work him on ALL commands with the collar, not just one. The dog must understand that the collar is nothing more than an extension of the cc, leash, or heeling stick. Every command he knows on the cc must be transfered to the ecollar. He must sit, down, come, fetch, heel, whoa, etc and all by ecollar.

Stimulate him only about once every three commands. If you only work him on one command, like here, that will become his default command and no matter the command, he will always come to you. That's why ALL commands must be reinforced by collar. The cc attached is your safety insurance that the dog won't bolt and run off on you.

It's really a simple procedure as long as you work at low intensity.

I wish I could have said it as well.

Charlie

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:44 pm

bigsugar wrote:Quick question. If your dog is 99% reliable then why did you buy a collar to begin with? I have dogs here that aren't 99% reliable with a collar ON them let alone with no collar. Why would you want a robot? This is what you are trying to create by making your dog 100% reliable. I don't ever want a dog that doesn't at least think about doing something stupid from time to time.

Tell you what if you have kids or a wife try this. Call their name and when they start to come to you walk over to them and smack them in the face. This is what you are doing to your dog.

+1 on that. These dogs survived a century without e-collar training.

Also I snorted laughing on that last sentence

I really wouldn't try that with the wife especially lol!

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:00 pm

bigsugar wrote:Quick question. If your dog is 99% reliable then why did you buy a collar to begin with? I have dogs here that aren't 99% reliable with a collar ON them let alone with no collar. Why would you want a robot? This is what you are trying to create by making your dog 100% reliable. I don't ever want a dog that doesn't at least think about doing something stupid from time to time.

Tell you what if you have kids or a wife try this. Call their name and when they start to come to you walk over to them and smack them in the face. This is what you are doing to your dog.

bigsugar, we all have our opinions and ways of doing things. As for me, yes, I want my dogs 100 percent reliable and the e-collar has made that possible, when used properly of course. It has nothing to do with how I treat my wife, kids and grand kids. Dogs are not human and do not have human brains....They have to be trained and conditioned to obey every command every time or receive a correction. That won't work on my wife and she knows it won't work on me either.

Charlie

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:59 pm

To each his own Charlie.

I am the first person to tell you that dogs and humans aren't equal. However, the way you deal with each isn't really that far off.

Charlie if you have kids did you send them to school or did you teach them yourself? If you did teach them yourself did you just buy a book and start one day with them or did you research and learn and get a plan of attack to teach your kids to the best of the ability.

There is no difference in the above questions in regards to kids and dogs alike.

Mister2 here has decided to put a collar on a dog that doesn't need it yet to "train" commands without any knowledge of using a collar or how to train a dog. Sorry if I'm being captain obvious here. Now he is wondering why he has screwed his dog up. My point is so many people want to undertake the job of training a dog. Great. Good for you but do a little research before you strap the ole collar on the dog and start shocking the piss out of him.

Collars aren't for training commands. They're for reinforcing commands that a dog KNOWs and choses to not comply with. This is where you went wrong first. Read up a little bit on how to use a collar and when to use it. You'll probably be more effective and your dog will appreciate it in the long run. If all else fails take your dog to someone who can help the dog and more importantly help YOU. There are probably many in your neck of the woods.

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:11 pm

bigsugar wrote:To each his own Charlie.

Mister2 here has decided to put a collar on a dog that doesn't need it yet to "train" commands without any knowledge of using a collar or how to train a dog. Sorry if I'm being captain obvious here. Now he is wondering why he has screwed his dog up. My point is so many people want to undertake the job of training a dog. Great. Good for you but do a little research before you strap the ole collar on the dog and start shocking the piss out of him.

Hardly. Let's do our best to offend a new mwmber. :roll:

No one knows how much experience he has had, He's wise enough to follow a programme and has asked some excellent questions.
Follow Gonehuntin's advice , M2 and you will do fine. Sounds like you have already made good progress.

I had the same query when i started using the e-collar. Dog was totally obedient in the yard. Get out to the field and use your come command from different distances. You will probably have a need for the e-collar there.

irondugan · Post by **irondugan** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:10 pm

I have the exact same collar for my dog. He's usually at about a 1.5 for most commands. I too watched the video and didn't think much of it. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but the only time I ever used a check cord was to introduce basic commands early on. If you can, I would take the prongs out and just let your pup carry it around for a week or so - the idea is that he forgets about it all together. You don't want him to become "collar wise" or he'll learn that he can disobey when the collar is off. Once he's good on that, I would also suggest making a point of putting the collar on/off everytime you do something fun e.g. going on a walk. My pup has gotten to the point that when he sees the collar he gets excited because he knows were going on a walk or were going on a hunt.

As for corrections, the idea is to shock until the behavior you want occurs. For example, when my dog and I go for a walk off leash and he gets far off and I want him to come back I'll give the "here" command a few times and if he doesn't doesn't respond I'll lean on the juice (continuous shock only - in my experience the momentary shock confuses the dog and I never use it) the instant he turns towards me and starts to come my direction I let off the shock and repeat the command and praise him lavishly. The idea here is to separate the shock and the command to prevent confusing the dog. If you're shocking him while he's coming back to you he could also become confused. This may explain why he kept disobeying the "stay" command because he was thinking the shock meant "here". Also, I would lose the check cord and try to put some distance between you and the dog before giving the "here" command so it's clear what he's supposed to be doing. As for the "stay" command, I've never used the collar much for this - I trained on "stay" using treats when he was young.

I will tell you that using the shock collar when your dog is around other dogs is a big no no! Often times they confuse the shock for agression from another dog and you can start a fight. Hope this helps.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:03 am

bigsugar wrote:To each his own Charlie.

Good for you but do a little research before you strap the ole collar on the dog and start shocking the piss out of him.

Stimulating a dog on a level 2 is hardly "shocking the piss out of him". I can barely even feel a level 2. He says that is the level that the dog just shows maybe a twitch of his neck. That doesn't hurt any dog. The thing the dog is probably confused about is the odd sensation on his neck. The owner simply has to teach him how to respond to it.

It's obvious that the dog all ready knows his commands; now it should be simple to switch the reinforcement to the ecollar rather than the cc and stick.

Yes, dogs were trained for many years before the introduction of the ecollar. Difference is, now they are trained quickly and humanely.

bumper52 · Post by **bumper52** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:19 am

work on one command at a time....I like to collar condition to here first. Have the dog on a check cord. Have the dog sit. Walk about 15 yards away. Command here, gently tug the cord. Your dog will comply because you have done your basic obedience. He's not really doing anything new at this point. Do that 3-4 times. Then, same procedure, but add a nick from the collar. Watch the dogs reaction but don't baby him or anything. Mix in the nicks with just tugs. 4 or 5 nicks the first session is all that is needed. On day two, you can pretty much follow the same routine....read the dog...you are looking at quick, snappy response to come. You can increase the stimulation one level and sees how that goes. When the dog is dying to get to you, you are making headway.....the dog is complying to the command and learning to turn off or beat the pressure.....day three try not using a check cord to test.....give plenty of freebies (no nicks) There's a little more to it than what I've written here, but this gives you the basic idea

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:32 am

bigsugar, we are not in disagreement in what the e-collar is for and how it should be used....I just don't think the OP has messed his dog up at all.

Charlie

mister2 · Post by **mister2** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:05 pm

I will be the first to tell you I have no clue how to train a dog but I have read a lot, asked alot of questions from dog owners, watched others train and interact with dogs, and watched numerous videos of professionals training dogs. If you were to compare him to Petsmart's standards, he's basically at the advanced level or slightly beyond. Not bad for a beginner with no clue. How did you learn to train your first dog?

So far when I've given a command he's followed it. With that said, I just won't give a command when I'm sure he would blow me off since I know he's not a robot. I guess that means he's not 100% reliable. I'm not 100% reliable either. I know he will blow me off one day.

So far I've only followed the instructions used on the Perfect Start video for e-collar training. They also started with dogs that knew the commands. Throughout their e-collar training progresson they would nick the dog (gruadually less of course) whether they responded correctly or not, at the same time they gave the command. I did the same. However the response I got was different. That's all I'm getting at.

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:20 pm

Each dog is different mister. Rhondas shootin dog broke without an ecollar at all. Her sister was such a black hearted b!tch. She flip you the bird and run birds up awhen you caught her and administered a little street justice she was off to do it again.

I think people get caught up with the idea that they have to pattern their training after some video or book. They also get caught in the "I have to get an ecollar " mind-set.

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:15 pm

[quote="mister2"]I will be the first to tell you I have no clue how to train a dog but I have read a lot, asked alot of questions from dog owners, watched others train and interact with dogs, and watched numerous videos of professionals training dogs. If you were to compare him to Petsmart's standards, he's basically at the advanced level or slightly beyond. Not bad for a beginner with no clue. How did you learn to train your first dog? quote

I went to every trial and test I could and watched and asked questions. A Pro is a friend of mine and was always ready to give advice and show his frustration at my handling when needed.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:25 pm

Mister, retriever trainers wrote the book on ecollar training. Always keep in mind that the ecollar is used for three, and only three responses from a dog: To PUSH the dog, to PULL the dog, to STOP the dog. That's it.

As others have said, it only reinforces known commands. Also remember that it doesn't matter if the dog performs the command or not, he is still stimulated. That is how collar conditioning is done. So, it does no harm to command HERE and stimulate the dog when he is coming to you. Reward him then for completion of the correct response. About one stimulation to three commands is about right.

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:49 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:So, it does no harm to command HERE and stimulate the dog when he is coming to you.

Really? Did you read his original post?

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:50 pm

mister2 wrote: I think I may have already created a problem. Last night I followed the instructions on determining the correct level of stimulation. He needs a 2. I proceeded to start training the "here" command using the check cord. I would follow the instructions in the PS video by saying here, light jerk on the cord, and shock all at the same time. The thing is, he already responds to the command without the shock so do I still need to shock him when I give the command? Is this how you condition them to ecollar? After about 4 times of giving the command my dog would not leave my side. I decided to give him the stay command (no shock), start to walk away and he would disobey the command and follow me. Is it because he's confused or scared of getting shocked or both. How do I proceed?

Here it is again so you don't have to scroll back to the top. I'm feeling nice tonight.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:51 pm

Mister in my opinion the dog is confused and defaulting to the command he knows best, which is usually "here". When I first transition to "whoa" my dog will sometimes get confused as to what I want him to do because he is used to coming to me when he gets stimulated. It is something they get over very quickly, but the poster was right you have enforce each and every command with the e collar.

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:10 pm

Elkhunter wrote:Mister in my opinion the dog is confused and defaulting to the command he knows best, which is usually "here". When I first transition to "whoa" my dog will sometimes get confused as to what I want him to do because he is used to coming to me when he gets stimulated. It is something they get over very quickly, but the poster was right you have enforce each and every command with the e collar.

This is why you whoa break a dog with the collar around the belly. No confusion.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:12 pm

bigsugar wrote:
mister2 wrote: I think I may have already created a problem. Last night I followed the instructions on determining the correct level of stimulation. He needs a 2. I proceeded to start training the "here" command using the check cord. I would follow the instructions in the PS video by saying here, light jerk on the cord, and shock all at the same time. The thing is, he already responds to the command without the shock so do I still need to shock him when I give the command? Is this how you condition them to ecollar? After about 4 times of giving the command my dog would not leave my side. I decided to give him the stay command (no shock), start to walk away and he would disobey the command and follow me. Is it because he's confused or scared of getting shocked or both. How do I proceed?

Here it is again so you don't have to scroll back to the top. I'm feeling nice tonight.

You missed what I told him. You can't just train on ONE command. A collar pushes, pulls, and stops. You have to balance your training and train equally on all three commands and all AT THE SAME TIME.

That way, you don't build a default response.

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:45 pm

Do you think problems can arise by trying to teach mulitple commands while using the collar on the same contact point all the time.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:24 pm

bigsugar wrote:Do you think problems can arise by trying to teach mulitple commands while using the collar on the same contact point all the time.

No

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:40 pm

I have a dog here now that was taught to handle with a collar on his neck and later he was broke with a collar on his neck. Now when he gets out lateral or makes a bad move and you nick him with the collar he stops on you. No matter how far away he is you have to go to him and release him. What do you think caused that?

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:47 pm

Bigsugar,

You missed what I told him. You can't just train on ONE command. A collar pushes, pulls, and stops. You have to balance your training and train equally on all three commands and all AT THE SAME TIME.

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:49 pm

I'm sorry but getting a trial dog right is done in phases. You don't pattern a dog and break him on his birds at the same time so this argument doesn't hold water.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:00 pm

bigsugar wrote:I'm sorry but getting a trial dog right is done in phases. You don't pattern a dog and break him on his birds at the same time so this argument doesn't hold water.

It's a good thing the OP isn't talking about breaking and pattering a dog then. Besides, why would you use the same que to turn as you would stand.

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:02 pm

brad27 wrote: It's a good thing the OP isn't talking about breaking and pattering a dog then. Besides, why would you use the same que to turn as you would stand.

A couple of posts ago you said it shouldn't be a problem. Right?

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:03 pm

brad27 wrote:
bigsugar wrote:Do you think problems can arise by trying to teach mulitple commands while using the collar on the same contact point all the time.
No

Remember this?

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:09 pm

bigsugar wrote:I have a dog here now that was taught to handle with a collar on his neck and later he was broke with a collar on his neck. Now when he gets out lateral or makes a bad move and you nick him with the collar he stops on you. No matter how far away he is you have to go to him and release him. What do you think caused that?

Breeding and confusion. Have you thought of singing or calling him forward.. maybe giving him a clue before he gets shocked out of nowhere?

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:15 pm

bigsugar wrote:
brad27 wrote: It's a good thing the OP isn't talking about breaking and pattering a dog then. Besides, why would you use the same que to turn as you would stand.
A couple of posts ago you said it shouldn't be a problem. Right?

Yep shouldn't be. If you know what you're doing.
Quoting myself here: " Besides, why would you use the same que to turn as you would stand."

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:24 pm

Slistoe I have tried just leaving him, singing him on, whistling him on and nothing works. He just stands there whoaed because that's what he thinks the collar means. It's really frustrating because this dog has some tools to win. Oh well.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:28 pm

bigsugar wrote:Slistoe I have tried just leaving him, singing him on, whistling him on and nothing works. He just stands there whoaed because that's what he thinks the collar means. It's really frustrating because this dog has some tools to win. Oh well.

If this dog has what it takes then don't stop searching for the solution. Sometimes you have to go outside of your own knowledge and get a different take on things.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:39 pm

Not silistoe but you answered my question.... And I know someone who has four dogs that do that and he worked of out of 3. one is still stuck. Good luck with the dog but you might want to contact a pro or free his head up.

Post by **slistoe** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:57 pm

I don't know how you brought me in on this bigsugar, but the answer to your problem is that you were one dimensional in your use of the collar on your dog.
Bring your dog into the yard, put on the CC and the e-collar. Work on your cue to bend and when the dog is responding well overlay the collar correction with the CC correction and phase out the CC correction. Then work on bending at increasing distance with the collar for correction. When the dog is responding appropriately to the collar for the cue then take him back to the yard and work on whoa with the collar for correction. Throw in a little "here" training as well with the CC and overlay the collar with that as well. When you have done your training properly the dog will view the collar as a reminder to perform the appropriate action for the cue given, not as a cue for a singular action.
Or you can just say that gone doesn't know what he is talking about and be frustrated with your dog for being a bonehead and not getting it.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:46 am

slistoe wrote:I don't know how you brought me in on this bigsugar, but the answer to your problem is that you were one dimensional in your use of the collar on your dog.
Bring your dog into the yard, put on the CC and the e-collar. Work on your cue to bend and when the dog is responding well overlay the collar correction with the CC correction and phase out the CC correction. Then work on bending at increasing distance with the collar for correction. When the dog is responding appropriately to the collar for the cue then take him back to the yard and work on whoa with the collar for correction. Throw in a little "here" training as well with the CC and overlay the collar with that as well. When you have done your training properly the dog will view the collar as a reminder to perform the appropriate action for the cue given, not as a cue for a singular action.
Or you can just say that gone doesn't know what he is talking about and be frustrated with your dog for being a bonehead and not getting it.

Amen!!

Charlie

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:09 am

bigsugar wrote:I have a dog here now that was taught to handle with a collar on his neck and later he was broke with a collar on his neck. Now when he gets out lateral or makes a bad move and you nick him with the collar he stops on you. No matter how far away he is you have to go to him and release him. What do you think caused that?

Please read again the response, "you can't just train on one command or the dog will always default to it."

If you ever have the chance, work with a retriever trainer for a while.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:39 am

gonehuntin' wrote:If you ever have the chance, work with a retriever trainer for a while.

GH, can you say that again - just in case it didn't get through to blinkered eyes or fell upon deaf desperate ears when it comes to e-collar use?

MG

adogslife · Post by **adogslife** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:11 am

Balanced training should be every trainers goal.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:24 am

I mostly agree, but you have to remember "not all retriever trainers are created equal".

Coveyrise64

gonehuntin' wrote:If you ever have the chance, work with a retriever trainer for a while.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:19 am

Coveyrise64 wrote:I mostly agree, but you have to remember "not all retriever trainers are created equal".

Coveyrise64

gonehuntin' wrote:If you ever have the chance, work with a retriever trainer for a while.

That is very true, so pick a competent one very familiar with the electric collar and the Rex Carr program. You have to remember that the electric collar program used today, buy all retriever and most versatile dog trainers, was invented and perfected by Rex Carr, the dean of trainers.

Once you thoroughly understand the basics, it's easily adaptable to any breed.

rinker · Post by **rinker** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:22 am

I have a dog here now that was taught to handle with a collar on his neck and later he was broke with a collar on his neck. Now when he gets out lateral or makes a bad move and you nick him with the collar he stops on you. No matter how far away he is you have to go to him and release him. What do you think caused that?

Come and whoa are the only two commands that I really train/enforce with an ecollar. Every dog that I have ever trained has gone through a period where they were confused by this. I will nick them to bring them around and they will 'whoa' instead. All of them eventually worked through it, some faster than others. I have a young dog now and I am going to use a collar on her flank for whoa.

I would be interested in hearing from some folks that use the collar on the flank how they eventually transition to the collar on the neck for whoa.

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:55 am

birddogger wrote:
slistoe wrote:I don't know how you brought me in on this bigsugar, but the answer to your problem is that you were one dimensional in your use of the collar on your dog.
Bring your dog into the yard, put on the CC and the e-collar. Work on your cue to bend and when the dog is responding well overlay the collar correction with the CC correction and phase out the CC correction. Then work on bending at increasing distance with the collar for correction. When the dog is responding appropriately to the collar for the cue then take him back to the yard and work on whoa with the collar for correction. Throw in a little "here" training as well with the CC and overlay the collar with that as well. When you have done your training properly the dog will view the collar as a reminder to perform the appropriate action for the cue given, not as a cue for a singular action.
Or you can just say that gone doesn't know what he is talking about and be frustrated with your dog for being a bonehead and not getting it.
Amen!!

Charlie

Good quick overview. I saved it away for when I might need it again. Thanks.

bigsugar · Post by **bigsugar** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:47 pm

I break all my dogs with a belly collar. This dog was this way when he got here.

ST8 UPPOINTERS · Post by **ST8 UPPOINTERS** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:29 pm

I would be interested in hearing from some folks that use the collar on the flank how they eventually transition to the collar on the neck for whoa.[/quote]
It makes no sence to transition from flank to neck imo . Start with one a stay there, that's y I do all my ecollar work on the neck, but that's just me.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:06 pm

Makes no sense to me to break a dog on a belly collar, they switch to the neck. The dog will live his entire life with a collar on his neck; train him that way.

If you want to create a collar wise dog, break his with a flank collar.