Gun Introduction

[kansasbirdhunter]

I am trying to figure out the most economical way to introduce my dog to gunfire. I have a Mossberg .22 LR that Id like to use but Im not sure if it will be too loud or not. I plan on my helper being at least 75-100 yards away if/when he shoots it. I don't have a starter or blank pistol and Id rather not spend the money on a cheap gun if I dont have to. Does a starter pistol or blank pistol really sound that much different/quieter than a .22 LR? So far I have shot a bunch of rounds with a kids cap gun over her out in the field when I launch birds. She totally ignores it and its pretty loud. She lets me shoot right over her and doesn't ever flinch or look up/back. Ive shot probably 80-90 rounds with the cap gun and now I'm ready to move on to something bigger. Any thoughts on using a .22LR instead of a starter pistol? Can I use blanks in a regular .22 rifle? I may be over thinking it, but I don't want to screw this up or my rifle for that matter. If I do decide to use my .22, what would be the quietest or best shells to use for the introduction? Thanks for your suggestions!

[jcbuttry8]

If you have the pups attention on a bird, you could shoot a cannon and she may not flinch. Make sure the pup is on a bird. If you have used a cap gun that much you will be fine with a 22. I started mine out on a 410. Now when she hears a shot even from a great distance she stops and looks for birds. You will be fine. to

Just to be sure watch the pup. She will tell you what she is fine with. That dog will tell you alot, you just have to pay attention.

Have fun,

Joe

[topher40]

A .22 will work fine. I start with the .410 then the .20 gauge, then 12. If you want some help let me know, I notice you are in the NE Kansas area.

[kansasbirdhunter]

Thats great news... glad I dont have to go buy something else. I sorta thought the .22 would be ok especially after seeing no reaction to the cap gun. I just wanted a little reassurance I guess
Topher, you are correct, I live in Lawrence KS. Rock Chalk Jayhawk! You live around here?

[topher40]

Well I am about an hour and half from you. Up by Hiawatha and Sabetha Ks. Rock Chalk, wish they would have beat them dang tigers the other night though!

[ezzy333]

I much prefer a 20 guage to a rifle for training. Rifles have a completely different type of sound that is much more piercing than a shotgun. I have never had a problem with introductions if I take them to a field and let them run and play. When they are busy and 40 yards away or so just shoot in the opposite direction amd you normally will get a small respomse but just ignore if you do and keep walking. After a couple of trips with the shooting I start shooting birds over the pup and let them connect the noise to something pleasurable. I can usually start shooting over them within 5 or 6 trips and sometimes sooner.

Ezzy

[kansasbirdhunter]

I much prefer a 20 guage to a rifle for training. Rifles have a completely different type of sound that is much more piercing than a shotgun. I have never had a problem with introductions if I take them to a field and let them run and play. When they are busy and 40 yards away or so just shoot in the opposite direction amd you normally will get a small respomse but just ignore if you do and keep walking. After a couple of trips with the shooting I start shooting birds over the pup and let them connect the noise to something pleasurable. I can usually start shooting over them within 5 or 6 trips and sometimes sooner.

Ezzy

Ezzy, I like your idea and I would start with a 20 guage but my problem is...I dont have one Right now, Im limited to a 12 ga. or as I mentioned, my .22 LR. I have a 380 pistol but thats even louder/as loud as my 12 guage. I think I will start off with my .22 and see what happens. Unless someone has a cheap 20 ga they want to sell me!?

[ezzy333]

I much prefer a 20 guage to a rifle for training. Rifles have a completely different type of sound that is much more piercing than a shotgun. I have never had a problem with introductions if I take them to a field and let them run and play. When they are busy and 40 yards away or so just shoot in the opposite direction amd you normally will get a small respomse but just ignore if you do and keep walking. After a couple of trips with the shooting I start shooting birds over the pup and let them connect the noise to something pleasurable. I can usually start shooting over them within 5 or 6 trips and sometimes sooner.

Ezzy

Ezzy, I like your idea and I would start with a 20 guage but my problem is...I dont have one Right now, Im limited to a 12 ga. or as I mentioned, my .22 LR. I have a 380 pistol but thats even louder/as loud as my 12 guage. I think I will start off with my .22 and see what happens. Unless someone has a cheap 20 ga they want to sell me!?

12 will work as well as a 20 as long as you shoot in the opposite direction.

Ezzy

[jimbo&rooster]

If you know someone who reloads for 12 ga, you may be able to get them to load you some crimps. basically a shotgun shell with a primer and nothing else. when i was reloading alot of shotshells i would occasionally crush a hull and I would cut it down to about 2 3/4 in and just put a primer in it.

Jim

[nikegundog]

If you buy a box of "sub-sonic" .22 rounds, it will get rid of the crack you here when you fire a rifle.

[kansasbirdhunter]

If you buy a box of "sub-sonic" .22 rounds, it will get rid of the crack you here when you fire a rifle.

Thanks for the advice. I'll give them a try.

[DonF]

don't intro buns with aq bird but I do use a 22 rifle. I just take the pup's for a walk and when it's reaqlly intrested in something, I hold the muzzlw a few inch's off the ground and shoot. No matter what the pup does, I keep on walking like nothing happened.

There's another way with a shotgun. Any guage. Take an MYU hull and drill out the primer pocket to 1/4". Shot shell primmer's will slip in and come right back out.

With either way, keep an eye on the pup to be sure it's alright before going up in noise level. To make the 22 louder, hold the barrel higher. Graduate fromm it to a blank gun.

[kansasbirdhunter]

Don,
I have a reloader so I could do the primer thing. Can you explain a little more what the purpose is? So I ream out a shotshell so the primer slips right in and out? Am I supposed to fire it like that? It would be nice to be able to load the shell over and over again in the field. I could carry some primers with me and load as I go. Am I getting the right idea? I dont want to blow myself up! Will the primer be very loud?

[brad27]

In the long run it may be cheaper and easier to just buy a cheap 209 blank pistol. I think I paid $70 for mine.

[gmanksu]

Slow down your pup is very young to be introducing it to gunfire, introduce birds get it fired up for birds then introduce gunfire only around birds when it is in chase of a flushed bird. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is a good bird dog!

[DonF]

Don,
I have a reloader so I could do the primer thing. Can you explain a little more what the purpose is? So I ream out a shotshell so the primer slips right in and out? Am I supposed to fire it like that? It would be nice to be able to load the shell over and over again in the field. I could carry some primers with me and load as I go. Am I getting the right idea? I dont want to blow myself up! Will the primer be very loud?

Yes. You have the gun and it makes very quiet noise, but the gun and noise come at the same time. 1/4" drill bit does it. I suppose you could make some blanks somehow also. Maybe charge with powder, insert a wad and fill the wad with cream of wheat or toilet paper. Really cool using toilet paper in rifle shells with cast bullet's. Looks like it's snowing in front of the rifle when you shoot!

[nikegundog]

Don,
I have a reloader so I could do the primer thing. Can you explain a little more what the purpose is? So I ream out a shotshell so the primer slips right in and out? Am I supposed to fire it like that? It would be nice to be able to load the shell over and over again in the field. I could carry some primers with me and load as I go. Am I getting the right idea? I dont want to blow myself up! Will the primer be very loud?

Yes. You have the gun and it makes very quiet noise, but the gun and noise come at the same time. 1/4" drill bit does it. I suppose you could make some blanks somehow also. Maybe charge with powder, insert a wad and fill the wad with cream of wheat or toilet paper. Really cool using toilet paper in rifle shells with cast bullet's. Looks like it's snowing in front of the rifle when you shoot!

To make a homemade popper fill it with millet, some use rice but its bad for birds.

[Buckeye_V]

Pay 59.99 for a 209 gun and 28.00 for 1000 shells. Doesn't get any cheaper than that and you can use it again and again and again.

Just sayin. Otherwise, make a popper with 2 pieces of wood on a hinge. Crack it shut. Or, just pop your leather belt.

[hi-tailyn]

"If you have the pups attention on a bird, you could shoot a cannon and she may not flinch. Make sure the pup is on a bird. If you have used a cap gun that much you will be fine with a 22. I started mine out on a 410. Now when she hears a shot even from a great distance she stops and looks for birds. You will be fine. to

Just to be sure watch the pup. She will tell you what she is fine with. That dog will tell you alot, you just have to pay attention."

+1

I hear these newbies shooting at a distance when pups are eating. What has eating got to do with Guns and Birds? :roll:

Once you have pup attention on birds and lots of desire, then you can introduce gun fire at a distance then shoot shot gun the other direction. Pavlov theory =unconditional stimulus = and unconditional response. All dogs I have trained, when they hear a gun look for birds. Wide eyed and excited. Guns = Birds.

Banging pots and pans and fire crackers are another way to cause gun shyness. Shooting range,= Gun shyness.

[Benny]

I much prefer a 20 guage to a rifle for training. Rifles have a completely different type of sound that is much more piercing than a shotgun. I have never had a problem with introductions if I take them to a field and let them run and play. When they are busy and 40 yards away or so just shoot in the opposite direction amd you normally will get a small respomse but just ignore if you do and keep walking. After a couple of trips with the shooting I start shooting birds over the pup and let them connect the noise to something pleasurable. I can usually start shooting over them within 5 or 6 trips and sometimes sooner.

Ezzy

+1
The report from a centerfire rifle is not friendly to a dogs exceptional hearing. I wish I could reference that material but I can't, however you can sure read a 100 different posts on gun shyness on this forum that read something about taking their dog shooting with ____cal rifle and surprise...dog is scared of guns.

If you have the option, I would use the shotgun.

[taztoo]

I have a 9 week old gsp pup. At what age do you introduce him to a gunshot? My plan was to take him to my gun club when they are skeet shooting and just hang around about 200 yards away and let him play for awhile. then every week move a little closer to the range. I am a rank amature at training so any comments on this plan are appreciated.. thanks, mike/taztoo

[hi-tailyn]

I have a 9 week old gsp pup. At what age do you introduce him to a gunshot? My plan was to take him to my gun club when they are skeet shooting and just hang around about 200 yards away and let him play for awhile. then every week move a little closer to the range. I am a rank amature at training so any comments on this plan are appreciated.. thanks, mike/taztoo

Sorry to be cruel. This is exactly what you DO NOT want to do. You will most likely make your young pup GUN SHY!!

Sorry, but somebody needs to help stop Gun Shyness which is almost always Man Made.

There are plenty of great replies above from good people.


Take him to a field and let him get contact with birds. Let him chase and chase. Build up that bird desire and prey drive. Then with him in full pursuit fire small blank gun 50-70 yds from the pup. Full chase of birds then gun fire. As he grows he will fully associate Gun fire with Birds. All positive.

[hi-tailyn]

I have a 9 week old gsp pup. At what age do you introduce him to a gunshot? My plan was to take him to my gun club when they are skeet shooting and just hang around about 200 yards away and let him play for awhile. then every week move a little closer to the range. I am a rank amature at training so any comments on this plan are appreciated.. thanks, mike/taztoo

Sorry to be cruel. This is exactly what you DO NOT want to do. You will most likely make your young pup GUN SHY!!

Sorry, but somebody needs to help stop Gun Shyness which is almost always Man Made.

There are plenty of great replies above from good people.


Take him to a field and let him get contact with birds. Let him chase and chase. Build up that bird desire and prey drive. Then with him in full pursuit fire small blank gun 50-70 yds from the pup. Full chase of birds then gun fire. As he grows he will fully associate Gun fire with Birds. All positive.

Not trying to offend. I probably could have been less direct.

There is a lot of good info on this site.

1st. Have fun with your new companion and let them explore and have fun also.

Best of luck to you.

[taztoo]

Hey, No offense taken... I want to learn... at what age do you start him on birds? mike/taztoo

[hi-tailyn]

You can start at almost any age.

Even 8 weeks with a quail with wing feathers pulled that will just run around for the pups to see chase, and even point if in some grass.

Then progress each time out to less feathers pulled so it can flutter around then fly a short ways. Then no pulled feathers and full flight birds. Pup will be pointing and stalking bird. Building up that desire.

When the pup has been giving full chase and running good after the flying bird you can start shooting blank 40 yds from running pup. Work closer as long as pup has his full attention on bird, and shows no reaction to gun fire.

Have fun.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Kansasbirdhunter,
We never look at gun introduction in the most ecomomical way, we look at it as part of our over all training program.
We start with the blank gun in the Grouse woods, move on to the .410 with light shells in the Grouse woods, then using the .410 we shoot down a planted/flushed Hun or Chukar, that the pup has pointed. In this manner the pup becomes very birdy when it hears a shotgun discharged. From this point on we start using the 28 Gauge gun with light shells as we train on wild Grouse. We like to make sure the pup does everything correctly, before downing the 1st Grouse, with the 28 Gauge gun and light shells. Most of the 1st Grouse season we hunt & train the pup with the 28 Gauge gun, toward the end of the 1st season we start to use the 20 Gauge, during the 2nd season we move on to the 16 gauge gun and then finally to the 12. Using this technique we have never had a gun shy pup. We never look at the most economical way when training, especially when introducing a pup to gun fire, the pup means a lot more than just a little money to us.
RGD/Dave

[wildwindgundogs]

get a 209 primer