Force Fetch Help

[mudpuppy1299]

4 days ago I began force fetch training my 14 month old Vizsla pup. I am using a wooden dowel to begin with. The first few short (5 minute) session went well. After the first forced taking of the dowel, she immediately began taking and holding it on my "fetch" command. By the second session, she was holding it for 30 seconds. Yesterday she began refusing the dowel and assuming the classic "roll on the back, I'm not gonna do it" position. I made her get up and take the dowel, but she won't hold it longer than 5 seconds. Where should I go from here?

[DogNewbie]

I don't have any force fetch experience but I've watched a video on it. I'd guess that a mix of resilience on your end and increased pressure would fix it eventually. Maybe set up a rig that doesn't allow the dog to avoid the stimulation by laying down. I video I watched the guy straps the dogs collar to a post. Forces the dog to deal with the situation.

[EvanG]

4 days ago I began force fetch training my 14 month old Vizsla pup. I am using a wooden dowel to begin with. The first few short (5 minute) session went well. After the first forced taking of the dowel, she immediately began taking and holding it on my "fetch" command. By the second session, she was holding it for 30 seconds. Yesterday she began refusing the dowel and assuming the classic "roll on the back, I'm not gonna do it" position. I made her get up and take the dowel, but she won't hold it longer than 5 seconds. Where should I go from here?

Not 'where' so much as 'how'. And the 'how' is slowly; much more slowly. I've force fetched several hundred dogs, and one important aspect to understand is that we should not be usinng pressure to force our dogs into submission as all too many trainers do it. It's a conditioning process.

It's not unusual for a first session to go well, and later have things go south. It's just a dog thing. They all react differently. Take your time. By the way, another suggestion I would make is lose the dowel and do this early portion with a paint roller. They're lightweight, softer and more pleasant for most dogs. They are usually more easily accepted by them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mxo6wdHl2w

EvnaG

[Windyhills]

Was the dog really ready for force fetch training? What made you think it was?

[RoostersMom]

V's are usually quite more sensitive than other breeds. They do not need a heavy hand at all. I would NOT suggest using more force since the dog is already acting submissive. Sounds like the dog doesn't know what you want. I would back up and go much more slowly. I didn't go from "hold" to "fetch" with my current pointer for about 18 -20 days into FF training. Not until she is "holding", with the walking hold and on several surfaces, then I went to the "fetch" to teach her to reach for the dummy. I think you're going way too fast and it sounds like you've skipped the entire "hold" training portion (which usually takes quite a bit of time). What method are you following? We have been using Evan Graham's Smartworks for our current Pointer and our Chessie.

Wrong or right, I didn't ever do anything more than "hold" with my current Vizsla - he didn't need it IMO, and since he's 4 legs into his MH and will retrieve anything I send him for, it worked for us.

[ultracarry]

I would talk with a vizsla pro. Pay someone to walk you through the process if you have someone readily available . There are methods designed for softer breeds in mind. Of you are not positive the dog is ready you might be gettong ahead of yourself and following what others would do rather than reading the dog yourself and doing what you think is right.

[bb560m]

Jon Hann does a FF clinic every once in a while or you could send the pup there. He won't ruin him.

[RoostersMom]

^^^^Great Advice^^^^ They've got a retrieve clinic coming up this summer, I saw it on their website. They'll also be at Pheasant Fest in Kansas City. So will the Showme Vizsla Club and several trainers they work with.

[bb560m]

Rosster - are you going to Show Me trial?

[RoostersMom]

I think I'm going to run the GSP puppy in the Open puppy on Sunday. Also will run some of the other dogs in the QF hunting dog classic across the road for fun. The next weekend I'm hoping to finish Rooster's MH title (we'll see how well he does after more than a month off) at Showme's hunt test.

[bb560m]

I think I'm going to run the GSP puppy in the Open puppy on Sunday. Also will run some of the other dogs in the QF hunting dog classic across the road for fun. The next weekend I'm hoping to finish Rooster's MH title (we'll see how well he does after more than a month off) at Showme's hunt test.

I'll look out for you. My little guy is in the derbys and puppy. Jon said he should be there too - my little guy is going back with him for 3 mos - gonna miss him.

[mudpuppy1299]

Thanks for the advice guys. I started force fetch training because I believe my pup is ready. She is reliably yard trained (whoa, recall, heel, etc.), and is steady to wing. I hunted her this fall and whenever I would give her the opportunity to retrieve a shot bird, she would try to run away and be very possessive of the bird. To clarify my method, I only used the term "fetch" not "hold." I didn't have her reaching for the dowel yet; I figure it would take a couple of weeks at least to reach that point. I will go back to square one and begin with a paint roller. It would be wonderful if I could afford a professional trainer; my husband still isn't fully on board with the training process at all. Thanks again for your info.

[Redfishkilla]

Mud,
You should consider buying Evan G's smartwork and following it to a T....jmo.

[mudpuppy1299]

Thanks, I'll definately look into it.

[Windyhills]

OK Reason I asked my question was something others caught too i think--V's can be slow to develop. Some of the programs might be a bit aggressive/fast for them.

[Waterdogs1]

you are not teaching hold? Have you already started using ear pressure? I usually teach hold first until the dog understands it then when the dog is holding well then I go to fetch using light ear pressure. Teach first. I have a feeling your dog is confused. Force Fetch is hard for a first timer. I would see if you could find someone that has good experience with FF to help you out. So much of FF and dog training is being able to read the dog. As far as money you can get some good advice and help from a pro for some time. I use to trade my skills as a horseman, throwing marks and helping out shooting flyers and so on. Good luck.