Steadying at a distance, howto?

[Knightfarms]

My dog has been doing very very well on his bird work lately. He will hold steady to release (after blank shot and we watch the birdy fly) within sight, but if he gets out of sight he is not as patient, and will bust the bird, especially if the bird gets running on him.

Do we just need more bird work close in to polish things up?
I think that a pop box (which I have) would help, but if I can't see the dang dog, how do I know when to pop?
Should I plant a helper in the wood near a bird so even if I'm out of sight the helper could pop the box?

He's 14 months old and my game is field trials, so the likelyhood of him coming across birds out of sight is high. I'd much rather come around the corner to the dog on point, than the one running after or catching a poor flying quail.

[AHGSP]

Cheryl, sending you a PM.

[Knightfarms]

Thanks Bruce!

Anyone else have words of wisdom for me?

[bb560m]

Thanks Bruce!

Anyone else have words of wisdom for me?

Most trainers steady a dog in sight - with an e-collar - sometimes a check cord to start. Try and do as many situations as you can, like flushing bird in face, etc. You need to be dead on with corrections. Then start moving the birds out - still in sight - and walk in from further distances. Do it at different places, different flushers (your wife, kids, friend, etc.), come in behind, block the flight of the bird, etc. As many situations as possible so he understands - don't move. You're not going to get corrections in steadying the dog up when you can't see him . Perfect Finish would be a good video to watch.

YMMV.

[DonF]

Your dog is not steady out of sight because it's not really steady when you can see it. When your training in close, what do you do if it moves a bit then stops? I don't allow the dog to so much as move it's eyes to me when I'm going around to flush. If it does, I pop the bird and start over again; I say nothing to the dog. It's fun to be a trainer but better to be a teacher.

I am a great believer in remote traps, especially in circumstances like your's. I don't know how you trained your dog to be steady but it sounds like it only is to satify you. It believes if not for you, it could catch the bird. If you take the remote trap and allow the dog to do as it will but you pop the bird the moment something goes wrong, the dog learns that it's it's movement causing thr bird to flush. Doesn't sound to me like he knows that. A lot of people put birds out to far to soon. Do that and you no longer control the situation, you just hope everything goes as planned. Use the remote, pop it the moment the dog does anything a bird might not allow and don't plant it out or sight or out or range of the transmitter.

BTW, that is a really nice looking dog!

[Knightfarms]

If it does, I pop the bird and start over again; I say nothing to the dog. It's fun to be a trainer but better to be a teacher.

I pop the bird if he even flinches, or give him a low nick if we're not using the traps. I try to be quiet for the most part, but I'm a girl and shutting up is really hard!

I am a great believer in remote traps, especially in circumstances like your's. I don't know how you trained your dog to be steady but it sounds like it only is to satify you. It believes if not for you, it could catch the bird.

I do believe you're right. He's a great combination of independent and obedient, but he's steady because I've built upon his natural point and focus. I need to work those pop boxes more to convince him he can't move in without the bird going away, even when I'm not there.

BTW, that is a really nice looking dog!

Thank you! He's my first bird dog and I'm having a blast with him. He's got great lines, and if I ever remember to, I'll put his pedigree up on pedigree.com. His mama is Vegas: http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3296 His sire is Kix: http://www.angelfire.com/ks/bluedawnken/kix.html

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Cheryl~Your best bet is to get ahold of Art and ask his opinion of what you need to be doing. You may be surprised at the answer. He knows how those dogs break out.

Doug

[C.painter]

I try to be quiet for the most part, but I'm a girl and shutting up is really hard!

This was a good laugh for the day!!

Good luck with your pup, it is a good looking dog!

[Knightfarms]

Glad I'm good for a laugh, but it's true. The gentlemen that I train with have reminded me numerous time to "shut up and let the dog do his job"

Art and I have talked numerous times back and forth. He has encouraged me to see what other people think in addition to him.

[Knightfarms]

Does anyone use binoculars to see a step or flinch, or is that just ridiculous?

I might add that I do everything from foot because there are no ATV's or horses allowed at the training grounds where I work.

[bb560m]

Does anyone use binoculars to see a step or flinch, or is that just ridiculous?

I might add that I do everything from foot because there are no ATV's or horses allowed at the training grounds where I work.

You don't steady with them running 1/2 mile out - you do it close in, then range it out and make them apply it.

[Buckeye_V]

They have to earn your trust. if you don't trust him to be steady, then don't let him run that big. When he does transition to that, hide someody in a a treestand or downwind behind a roundbale, etc. Give them the e-collar receiver or bird launcher remote to do the dirty work.

He is young. Get him solid in sight first and then let him earn your trust. Rome wasn't built in a day.

This is one instance where I think launchers are helpful.

[Knightfarms]

He is definitely "earning the right to run" by being steady close, a little father, a little father, etc... I just know that I'm getting close to the end of my bird field and was wondering what I do when I have to put a bird in the next field which is just past a tree line/brush crap.

We both need more miles and I think I need to plant birds in different places/fields around the club to ensure he's steady in sight. Kinda like making sure a dog follows a command in different places before you say he knows it. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

[doco]

When he does transition to that, hide someody in a a treestand or downwind behind a roundbale, etc. Give them the e-collar receiver or bird launcher remote to do the dirty work.

Egg zachary! Not only do we hide, we pop out after the fact so that the dog not only made the mistake and lost, it also doesn't know when the next time is that you are going to pop out of a treeline.

[birddogger]

When he does transition to that, hide someody in a a treestand or downwind behind a roundbale, etc. Give them the e-collar receiver or bird launcher remote to do the dirty work.

Egg zachary! Not only do we hide, we pop out after the fact so that the dog not only made the mistake and lost, it also doesn't know when the next time is that you are going to pop out of a treeline.

I like that!

Charlie

[SFK]

Know you and I talked Cheryl and I gave you the "secret recipe", but for the benifit of everyone else - high level -

Summed up one thing - they "earn the right to run" and I live by that statment.

If they're not honest then then real them in until they get it right. Slowly let them range as they continue to do it right MULTIPLE times. If they mess up, go back to the previous step until they get it right (by right I mean perfect) multiple sessions using multiple birds and then move on. It is very tempting to feel the dog is doing well and to just let them go. Don't get caught in that trap. Use the placement of birds to control their range and the situation. This litter can roll. If they start going all over the countryside and learn that they can bust birds out of your sight once you have started breaking you have a problem.

Commit to breaking - when you do it - thats they only thing you are doing with them in the field until it is finished.

[AzDoggin]

Know you and I talked Cheryl and I gave you the "secret recipe", but for the benifit of everyone else - high level -

Summed up one thing - they "earn the right to run" and I live by that statment.

If they're not honest then then real them in until they get it right. Slowly let them range as they continue to do it right MULTIPLE times. If they mess up, go back to the previous step until they get it right (by right I mean perfect) multiple sessions using multiple birds and then move on. It is very tempting to feel the dog is doing well and to just let them go. Don't get caught in that trap. Use the placement of birds to control their range and the situation. This litter can roll. If they start going all over the countryside and learn that they can bust birds out of your sight once you have started breaking you have a problem.

Commit to breaking - when you do it - thats they only thing you are doing with them in the field until it is finished.

good post, Art. I like that quote - "the dog earns the right to run."

You have some fine looking GSP's btw.

[Buckeye_V]

Right on brother. Like people, trust is earned in my dogs.

[Redfishkilla]

Wild quail!!!

[Knightfarms]

We can even find pen raised quail around here. Where are these mysterious wild birds?

[SFK]

Yep Justin - you basically said it in your prior post - all about trusting the dog and if you don't trust em don't let them go.

One thing I forgot - you need to evaluate to the dog to make sure it is ready to be broke. Each dog hits that point at a different age. I have two from this litter that are almost there but not quite.

Wild quail work too - I think wild sharptails even better than wild quail. Unfortunatally not everyone has access to them.

Thank you AzDoggin. Always nice to hear others like what I'm producing. Cheryl has done a great job with Cooper.