Reel Him In???

[shaneroyce]

I read the term "reel him in" when it comes to teaching "come" or 'here" quite often on this forum. I would like to hear exactly what is meant by this term. I also read often, and agree, that the "come" command means get here NOW and FAST!

My 12 month old EP (which I have had for about a month) is getting better at "come", but often dismisses me (which prompts a soft tug on the collar) or comes some of the way back and then veers off (needing another tug or two or three... on the collar).

Does the term "reel him in" mean give the command and then, if not obeyed immediately and quickly, pull the cc hard and fast until he is all the way to me followed by lots of praise when he gets to me? Or, does it mean if the command is not obeyed immediately to bump the collar lightly until he starts my way and them bump it lightly again if he starts to veer off, continuing this until he gets to me?

I have essentially been doing the latter, but he seems to still want to listen when he wants to listen (typical young dog), and likes to meander back almost like he's resenting the command. I always praise him a lot when he gets to me, but the light approach I'm taking seems to make him think that I don't mean business with the command. He definitely knows the command, and at his age, what would you all suggest?

I currently only have a 1" nylon flat collar on him, but will have a pinch collar here in a couple of days. I also have a couple of nylon choke collars/leashes. I have not overlayed an e-collar yet as this is my first pointer and want help when I do that. I'm looking forward to the responses!

[Sharon]

If you're just beginning to teach the command , of course you are more "understanding - soft tugs etc.".
However if it's a dog who you know knows the command then your statement is correct- "quickly, pull the cc hard and fast until he is all the way to me ." I prefer to run the dog down sometimes if I am in the backyard. That gets the message out quickly. You can be too gentle in dog training, and if you are ,that dog will play you for a sucker. jmo

( I don't use an e collar / pinch collar for teaching come/heel in the back yard. I am much more gentle.

[DogNewbie]

I introduced the command come whenever the pup was already coming towards me. After testing his understanding of the command and seeing that he indeed knew what it meant, then I put a cc on him and started "reeling him in."

[PntrRookie]

To me "reel him in" refers to a dog hunting, trialing out on the edge (limb) and for whatever reason the handler feels he or she wants the dog closer, so they will call or sing to "reel him in". Kinda the opposite of "let him roll". JMO

[shaneroyce]

To me "reel him in" refers to a dog hunting, trialing out on the edge (limb) and for whatever reason the handler feels he or she wants the dog closer, so they will call or sing to "reel him in". Kinda the opposite of "let him roll". JMO

I've seen the term used in this context as well. I am speaking of "reeling him in" as it pertains to the "come" or "here" command...all the way to me. He is 12 months old, not a little puppy, and knows the command (just seems to choose when to obey it). Some days are great, some are not.

Do you ever "reel him in" to the point of actually pulling the dog in hard and fast all the way to you followed by praise, or is is always little tug corrections?

Sharon, when you say you "run the dog down", do you mean you chase him and grab the cc and pull him in hard and fast followed by a lot of praise?

I usually don't attempt "come" in the field unless I have the dog running towards me for some reason or I am in a scenario where I feel he will absolutely comply. When he is "amped up" in the field, you can imagine that the problem is greatly magnified.

Keep them coming!

[Sharon]

To me "reel him in" refers to a dog hunting, trialing out on the edge (limb) and for whatever reason the handler feels he or she wants the dog closer, so they will call or sing to "reel him in". Kinda the opposite of "let him roll". JMO

I've seen the term used in this context as well. I am speaking of "reeling him in" as it pertains to the "come" or "here" command...all the way to me. He is 12 months old, not a little puppy, and knows the command (just seems to choose when to obey it). Some days are great, some are not.

Do you ever "reel him in" to the point of actually pulling the dog in hard and fast all the way to you followed by praise, or is is always little tug corrections?

Sharon, when you say you "run the dog down", do you mean you chase him and grab the cc and pull him in hard and fast followed by a lot of praise?
I usually don't attempt "come" in the field unless I have the dog running towards me for some reason or I am in a scenario where I feel he will absolutely comply. When he is "amped up" in the field, you can imagine that the problem is greatly magnified.

Keep them coming!

I only use "tugs" when training young dogs. Once the dog knows the command by "run him down" I mean I run, catch , big voice, maybe give him a shake and then bring him in to where I was standing.No praise for not coming on his own. Of course you wouldn't do this with a puppy.
Trainers with ATv and horses will also "run a dog down" in the field - not literally,

The dog must come EVERYTIME you call it. No exceptions. If you're watching tv and call the dog and he doesn't come, get off the couch and get the dog. He should never get away with not coming.
I've called one in from the backyard at midnight and have been ignored. I'm out there in a flash in my nightie to re inforce the command.he The neighbors do wonder.

In the field where the distractions/dangers are great , the dog must come when called. make that a priority.

[shaneroyce]

So, if I am understanding correctly, the "tugs" are for young pups that are learning the command. The abrupt and fast pulling of a dog is used for those that know the command but are not complying. I think at 12 months and knowing the command, I have been being a little too light with this dog on that command. "Come" is the most important command that he learns, and I need to be more forceful for non-compliance is what it sounds like. This particular dog will slowly come back with little "tugs" every time, but I want him to respond immediately and faster. He does respond at times with no "tug" at all. Am I correct in assuming that non-compliance should result in a more forceful "reeling in" than I am currently doing? Thanks.

[bonasa]

As far as I can assume you are correct in saying you give "light" tugs to puppies. I would be a little forceful with him with a stronger "check" at the end of your cord when you demand compliance. Once he turns tell him to "come" only once, when he stops or turns to go the other way check him again with another come command. Meanwhile I would do this in the yard where he is used to everything and no new sight/smell/sound would intrigue him to the point that disobedience would take precedence. Remember to give the command with a "check" or a sharp jolt, not a drag then give praise.Once that is achieved you could overlay a tug with a light stim from an e-collar a tug then a come command. You didn't ask about e-collars and your avatar doesn't have one either but I just thought I would throw that out there.

[Sharon]

So, if I am understanding correctly, the "tugs" are for young pups that are learning the command. The abrupt and fast pulling of a dog is used for those that know the command but are not complying. I think at 12 months and knowing the command, I have been being a little too light with this dog on that command. "Come" is the most important command that he learns, and I need to be more forceful for non-compliance is what it sounds like. This particular dog will slowly come back with little "tugs" every time, but I want him to respond immediately and faster. He does respond at times with no "tug" at all. Am I correct in assuming that non-compliance should result in a more forceful "reeling in" than I am currently doing? Thanks.

I can't say as I'm not there , but new pet owners tend to be too gentle. I'm not talking about being abusive/unkind / hitting but rather being firm and getting the message across by voice, or actions that you are to be obeyed.

[shaneroyce]

So, is there ever a time to "drag" (pull continually, quickly, and forcefully) a dog to you, or is it always a command with a tug and then a release as he moves toward you...repeat...repeat, until he gets to you? The latter seems to tell the dog (assuming he knows the command), "come, but take your time and I'll be waiting when you get here, and I'm ok with you trying to take detours along the way". Also, I've always praised him when he gets to me. In what instance would you withhold praise, if ever, on the "come" command?

[Ralph Ford]

Tug him in if you have to. That's how the command starts. Always give some sort of praise when the pup comes in, even if you are frustrated with him. A simple pat on the side of the head is all you need after awhile.
At a year of age, you are probably ready for an e-collar to continue enforcing 'come'.
"Reeling him in" in pointer talk means ranging closer, as the Rookie pointed out. It might mean something different in other circles, but you have a pointer, so you will soon learn what "reeling him in" means!
By the way, good looking pointer! High on both ends, and lean in the middle!

[Sharon]

So, is there ever a time to "drag" (pull continually, quickly, and forcefully) a dog to you, or is it always a command with a tug and then a release as he moves toward you...repeat...repeat, until he gets to you? The latter seems to tell the dog (assuming he knows the command), "come, but take your time and I'll be waiting when you get here, and I'm ok with you trying to take detours along the way". Also, I've always praised him when he gets to me. In what instance would you withhold praise, if ever, on the "come" command?

If you have to drag the dog to you, something is wrong, somewhere.

Possibility: You've only the dog one month . Maybe you should be working on bonding , fun for a couple months before getting into the serious training. jmo

[shaneroyce]

Regarding the term "reel him in", I have seen it used in both contexts on this forum. I am specifically talking about the command "come" and reeling him in with the cc when he doesn't obey.

Also, I don't HAVE to drag him to me EVER. Sometimes he comes immediately when called, sometimes he needs coaxed in with several tugs along the way.

I am trying, obviously, to get him to come immediately EVERY time. I'm trying to figure out if that means continuing to correct with tugs until he finally does not need them, or if a more forceful "reeling in" is necessary at times.

Also, should I repeat the command "come" with each tug as he's coming in, or just initially and then not say another word until he gets to me and praise him?

We are bonding very well. Again, he never needs to be drug to me. I simply wondered if that would ever be necessary to speed up his response.

Lastly, would giving him a treat help him get more excited about coming to me every time? I know some are against treats. I don't feel strongly either way.

[Ralph Ford]

I use treats, pointers are ALWAYS hungry!

[zigzag]

I need to ask What kinda CC are you using? My dog has been off leash training in public fields since I brought him home at 10 weeks, He knows the command come and I did use a CC for the first few months. Its just that I want my pup to run out not stay within CC range 20ft or so. At 1yr old the dog must be ranging far out how can a 20ft CC be effective?

[shaneroyce]

I use a 30' cc in the yard or in obedience training sessions. I don't use one in the field as he ranges well (200 - 400 yards). It would be useless at that distance. I rarely ask him to come when we're in the hills and he's off leash running/hunting as I have no way to enforce it.

If I change directions in the field, he goes with me very well and stays out in front. I try to only ask him to come in the field when we are in a position that I am extremely confident that he will respond (ie. changing directions 180 degrees and he is running toward me to get in front, or when he sees me stopped and getting a drink or something to eat and he comes to "check it out", I will give the command as he is coming to me).

I need to get him 100 percent obedient in the yard and on and off the cc (when he is distracted, he has "selective hearing" even when on the cc). Maybe it's time to overlay the e-collar?

I used a pinch collar on him beginning today, and when I gave the command, he responded better than he ever has (the slightest little tug meant A LOT more with the pinch collar than with a flat nylon collar ever has). Once he felt that, he did not want to test not obeying again.

I don't know if he will respond the same when the pinch collar is removed. We will see. Please send any more suggestions you have my way. Thanks.

[brad27]

Don't start overlaying the ecollar until he knows the command with the CC.

I don't know if he will respond the same when the pinch collar is removed.

Don't remove the pinch collar until he is ecollar intro'ed.

[zigzag]

So you have used the CC just draging in the field not just the yard. This may cause the dog to think you have more controll then you really do even know you dont. Try this in a smaller field maybe one with a fence to contain him at about 100yrds or so. give the command one time, slowly walk toward the dog and CC pick up cord give comand and bring him in. just my 2 cents.

[shaneroyce]

So, should I be using the pinch collar attached to the cc all of the time now when doing obedience or close-in work? If he is running out in the hills or fields with me, do I take the pinch collar off and attach the cc to the flat collar? I can see some potential dangers with leaving the pinch collar on at all when running the hills/fields. I'm a little confused with this?

[zigzag]

IDK if you should really be taking any advise from me, I am far to inexperienced to give you any more then my opinion. I think the pinch collar should never be used out of your immediate control.

[brad27]

So, should I be using the pinch collar attached to the cc all of the time now when doing obedience or close-in work? If he is running out in the hills or fields with me, do I take the pinch collar off and attach the cc to the flat collar? I can see some potential dangers with leaving the pinch collar on at all when running the hills/fields. I'm a little confused with this?

Sorry for being vague. I would use the pinch collar in the yard all the time while teaching things like whoa, heel, here. Once the dog knows those commands in the yard without having to be cued/corrected with the pinch collar I'd transition over to the ecollar. As far as the dog running in the field right now, no pinch collar. I didn't let mine run free until she was ok with "here" with the ecollar on. It made it easier to catch her.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

+1 to what brad said.