Obedience training

proudag08 · Post by **proudag08** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:40 am

Ok guys please help me out. My 6 month old puppy is about to drive my wife crazy. I understand that a puppy will be a puppy but my wife is getting to her wits end with him and I can see why. My wife is a school teacher (1st grade) so i know she has patience but Its just that our pup is pretty energetic (no duh right?) and she had a hard time correcting him when he does something wrong. For example: today she was making toast and she turned her back anf Frio got her bread off the counter and ran away with it. She followed him to his "I know I shouldnt have this" spot behind a chair and got it from him. She spanked him and told him no but all that did was make him want to play the game again. It didnt seem like punishment to him.

Long story short we are looking to put our GSP in an obedience course. There is a PetsMart close to us. Has anyone put their dog through their course? He minds me most of the time (as much as any 6 month old pup will mind). I think its because I do most of the "chores" with the dog. I feed him, I take him out, I take him for off leash walks, I put him up for the day. However, she is the first one home most days and takes him out in the evening, stays with him on Saturdays when I have to work, etc... but spends less time with him than I do.

There are some other training courses that are offered by individual trainers (mostly for AKC obedience competitions and agility competitions) around my area (Ft. Worth/ Cleburne). Does anyone happen to know of any good ones? Also, since I plan to water fowl and upland hunt with my dog I have already taught him to sit (**GASP** I know, I'm sorry). When we do go to an obedience class what things should I tell the trainer so I dont teach habits that may hinder my hunting experience.

Thanks for any help you guys can give!

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:50 am

PD08,
What we recommend is that the pup not be allowed at the breakfast or dinner table until he is older, eliminate this mess from the get go.
A pup has a short attention span, and mom should not have to deal with the pup while feeding herself or the children.
Also you do not want your gun pup learning to sit at a young age, he might start doing it in the woods, thinking he is pleasing
the master. If your wife needs to kennel the pup while she eats do it. Get to know your pup, discipline him when he needs it,
GSP pups will be into everything, playing and being a pain in the back side to your wife, she must become more dominant than the pup
especially in her own home. A lady with a good command voice rules the home, we have 6 dogs in our home, eveyone of them knows
my wife is also their boss, we have 2 German dogs and 4 Setters that have all grown from puppy hood to adults in our home. Its me my wife can't control, I get the pups all worked up, both playing and training them even in the house, it keeps her young, have a couple kids to play with the dogs, she will soon mellow or be committed. Sounds like you need another dogs also.
RGD/Dave

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:55 am

Not allowing it in then is probably a good idea. So is an obedience course. You might also talk to your doctor about some prozax for your wife!

Tell her it's a puppy and the law say's ya gotta love 'em!

proudag08 · Post by **proudag08** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:11 am

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:PD08,
What we recommend is that the pup not be allowed at the breakfast or dinner table until he is older, eliminate this mess from the get go.
A pup has a short attention span, and mom should not have to deal with the pup while feeding herself or the children.
Also you do not want your gun pup learning to sit at a young age, he might start doing it in the woods, thinking he is pleasing
the master. If your wife needs to kennel the pup while she eats do it. Get to know your pup, discipline him when he needs it,
GSP pups will be into everything, playing and being a pain in the back side to your wife, she must become more dominant than the pup
especially in her own home. A lady with a good command voice rules the home, we have 6 dogs in our home, eveyone of them knows
my wife is also their boss, we have 2 German dogs and 4 Setters that have all grown from puppy hood to adults in our home. Its me my wife can't control, I get the pups all worked up, both playing and training them even in the house, it keeps her young, have a couple kids to play with the dogs, she will soon mellow or be committed. Sounds like you need another dogs also.
RGD/Dave

Dave,
Reccommending another dog is not exactly what I would call helping... ha ha ha. Thanks for the advice!

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:26 am

PD08,
I know you younger generation guys have a hard time with it the world has become very feminized, 35 years ago my young wife advised me that she did not really want my gun dog in the house. We now have 6 gun dogs who live in my home, with my wife and my children were raised with them. I was joking, about the 2nd dog, however in the long run of life none of this is a joke. God put ladies on the earth as a mans help mate, not the other way around. Oh my I actually wrote that where some could read it.
RGD/Dave

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:20 am

Ag- Frio's got too much freedom in the house IMO. If your wife could tolerate it, it wouldn't be such a big deal, but she gets to live there too, and might feel better if she has some better tools (i.e., more control) in managing him.

The longterm product is that he eventually earns his time out of the crate or off a tether with calm, in-house, respectful behavior. Pups need to learn how to deal with some restriction around home just like they need to learn how to run to objectives in the field.

Training, always, but think management too. Your wife will understand that concept dealing with 6 year olds.

Use the crate a little more in the house, take him outside and give him some good exercise, then when you bring him back in, tether him to you with a 10 foot cord so you can monitor his behavior and give him instant feedback.

Some folks put a lag bolt into the baseboard in a corner in the family room, put the dogs bed and some chew toys there, and tether him up (chain or steel cable - they make nylon-coated steel cable too).

An alternative in the house when you are around is the ex-pen - put him in there with a chewy in view of his "people" (same with crate btw).

For some perspective - some working dog owners don't allow the dog in the house unsupervised till after 2 years of age. Some dogs NEVER get allowed in the house unsupervised - but most of those are harder dogs than Frio.

Driven pups are naturally curious and impulsive. My bro called my Britt pup "Devil Dog - Hound from H ELL" when she was the age of your pup.

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:19 pm

Well said.

I've started out by taking many a pup to Obedience Class for socialization reasons and just to learn from the teacher.I enjoyed it immensely.All learned to sit with no field problems but if that is a concern to you , you just tell the leader that your dog won't be sitting.I never went to a PetSmart class but they always seemed filled, so something good must be happening there - Make sure pup's shots are up to date before you go to any classes-.Being an old teacher of 45 years, , I can say that I haven't met a primary school teacher yet who wasn't stressed to the max. Was she in on the decision to get a pup? Saturday is her day to get a million things done. Any chance of pup going somewhere else on Sat. when you arear work ? Can you take pup to work in the crate in the car and come out on breaks to walk a bit? That's not ideal but it may save your marriage.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:27 pm

I have not heard good things about Petsmart type classes. I would find a good trainer with references and try that for an obedience class. I'd also question why Frio is allowed loose in the house when people are eating. That's what the crate is for. It's his space to enjoy with his Kong or whatever while you are doing things you don't want him in the middle of until he's earned the right to have more freedom. I think it's an earned thing.....he is allowed in the house loose when he is 1) tired out from a good run and 2) when you have time to solely give him your attention. He'll earn more freedom as he gets more self control and learns more about acceptable behaviors. Crates are one of the best things ever.

Several of our dogs (GSP's and Vizsla and a beagle) have been through obedience training. Nothing wrong with that at all. Nothing I'd worry about teaching him in the class that's different for the field work. Sit is the only thing - and you've already trained that one. I'd just make sure he gets more "whoa" training than "sit" training.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:58 pm

What Elsa said. Plus, if you wanted a calmer versatile type dog, why did you get a pup from a high octane field trial breeding?

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:17 pm

Sharon wrote: I can say that I haven't met a primary school teacher yet who wasn't stressed to the max.

You bet - same here. Teaching is a stressful job. Most don't want stress on the weekends too.

Casey - nothing wrong with choosing a pup from high octane genes .... just need to manage him like one in the house IMO ... realize he's always going to be into stuff, and manage him so he can't. With maturity (who knows, 2, 3, 4 years old???) he'll be able to hang in the house just fine.

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:45 am

Training is all about timing ! If you going to be outside the 1.3second time zone rather leave it, rather set them up with another peace of toast, them be ready for the pup will do it again.
Good idea not to eat with them or feed them while you eating, remember with animals the one in charge ears first and gets the best meal. By showing your dominance around the food will help pup understand he is not on top of the food chain !

What the 1.3second means you have 1.3seconds to make the correction, catch them on the job stealing the toast.

Good luck love and consistancy will turn your pup into a good dog !

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:14 pm

IMO early training for a pup that will be an indoor and hunting dog takes on two totally different styles depending on where you are. There isn't much room for "a pup will be a pup" in the house, you are setting behaviors now the pup will carry into adult hood. The pup has to earn a right to everything when in the house.
When doing field work or exploring OUTSIDE is the time for a "pup to be a pup" to run and play etc. Yours should pick it up very quickly that inside he has to be on his best behavior etc.

If he were mine, when he was inside I would begin by training him to a "place" be it a crate or a dog bed, but that would be where he was supposed to be until I said other wise.

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:28 am

proudag08 wrote: There are some other training courses that are offered by individual trainers (mostly for AKC obedience competitions and agility competitions) around my area (Ft. Worth/ Cleburne). Does anyone happen to know of any good ones? Also, since I plan to water fowl and upland hunt with my dog I have already taught him to sit (**GASP** I know, I'm sorry). When we do go to an obedience class what things should I tell the trainer so I dont teach habits that may hinder my hunting experience.

From time to time when we have been in a Petsmart or similar I have watched them do training: not enough room by far to do anything constructive & I have my doubts as to the experience level of the trainers.

We have found some local clubs to train: they are non-profits run by the members, many of which are extremely experienced trainers & judges in not only obedience, but conformation, agility, flyball, etc.

So while I agree with the need to do some obedience, you should do some homework to find a suitable class/facility to join.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:16 pm

Ryman Gun Dog

PD08,
I know you younger generation guys have a hard time with it the world has become very feminized, 35 years ago my young wife advised me that she did not really want my gun dog in the house. We now have 6 gun dogs who live in my home, with my wife and my children were raised with them. I was joking, about the 2nd dog, however in the long run of life none of this is a joke. God put ladies on the earth as a mans help mate, not the other way around. Oh my I actually wrote that where some could read it.RGD/Dave

Dave,
While you may see the younger generation as feminzed and arguably they may be in a given instance here and there, in any event... the last two sentences of what you have written above speaks volumes about your point of view. Who cares what you believe, or how you and your wife choose to live, but for someone who speaks of class, I can think of few things less classy than projecting your cultural views in this baseless, social media format. Very dignified my good man. Class is not the gun that you carry, the dog you hunt behind or where you live. You will note the class of the ladies who most assuredly were offended by your remarks but didn't comment, clearly, I lack their restraint and maturity.

While I have been accused of being otherwise, I lack the arrogance to define it for all; in my world, class has something to do with managing to not compromise your personal values and still allowing others to maintain their own. Relevance does not blossom from words Dave, it comes from actions...and men or women of action have little time to spend stringing together words and tales of conjecture and supposition, and perhaps more importantly, they cannot stand the embarrassment that comes from being caught in fantasy and fabrication.

It occured to me yesterday watching puppy stakes that dogs and people must be born honest it is environment that makes them otherwise, and that one should never trust a dog trainer that is too prone to self-promotion, they will take too much out of the dog and adorn themselves with it.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:24 pm

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:PD08,
I know you younger generation guys have a hard time with it the world has become very feminized, 35 years ago my young wife advised me that she did not really want my gun dog in the house. We now have 6 gun dogs who live in my home, with my wife and my children were raised with them. I was joking, about the 2nd dog, however in the long run of life none of this is a joke. God put ladies on the earth as a mans help mate, not the other way around. Oh my I actually wrote that where some could read it.
RGD/Dave

Did you really think you would get away with saying that?

Actually that quote is a "bleep" of the scripture verses which deal with the realationship between a man and a women. I won't quote them but suffice to say each partner has an important role.

proudag08 · Post by **proudag08** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:35 pm

To assume that 1. I am feminized because of my age and 2. that I don't know a mans place in a relationship, is in my opinion very ignorant.

That's all I'll say about it as to not start a religious conversation that will undoubtedly get this thread blocked. Suffice to say that I love my wife and as such I listen and value her opinion. I honor her by putting her wishes and desires before my own. And I love her, as I am called to, as Christ lives His bride, the church.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:43 pm

Ag - don't worry about it, it's a public forum. Strap the helmet on and keep it coming - your questions were legitimate and will help others in your situation too.

People get to have their ideas about this and that, and you get to have yours.

For some reason, I was thinking this forum was about dogs? :roll:

northern cajun · Post by **northern cajun** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:29 pm

Sharon wrote:
Ryman Gun Dog wrote:PD08,
I know you younger generation guys have a hard time with it the world has become very feminized, 35 years ago my young wife advised me that she did not really want my gun dog in the house. We now have 6 gun dogs who live in my home, with my wife and my children were raised with them. I was joking, about the 2nd dog, however in the long run of life none of this is a joke. God put ladies on the earth as a mans help mate, not the other way around. Oh my I actually wrote that where some could read it.
RGD/Dave

Did you really think you would get away with saying that? Actually that quote is a "bleep" of the scripture verses which deal with the realationship between a man and a women. I won't quote them but suffice to say each partner has an important role.

Yes Ma'am +1

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:17 am

Ditch pet smart join ur local NAVHDA chapter its alot cheaper and will help you get where you want to go. Try to run the dog more he will be calmer in the house if hes tired. Set rules and stick to them. I'm going thru the same thing with 2 pups its a nightmare at times but we luv them. good luck

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:19 am

Gentlemen,
I was only kidding, about your inidvidual situation, I figured I would draw some serious heat for the post however, and I have.
I am married to one of the most dominant well educated ladies you will ever meet, now purchase 2 more pups and have fun.
Keeping you guys stirred up is just to easy.
RGD/Dave

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:58 am

Oh My,

How awkward, too few of us got the joke. It must be a terrible burden to have such a lightning fast wit. The funny thing is that you have such a history of inaccurately plagiarized theories some folks just assume it’s the same with you and the scriptures I guess.

By the by, stop using "to" when you mean "too" it is the 34th most irritating thing in this online persona where you know something about everything and everybody and insist on presenting it in the utmost of condescending tones. It is in bad form to take such a position when your grammar is inadequate.

Stirred up? Please... doubled over in bemusement, in awe perhaps, but stirred up...nope...

Oh...and I thought your first post was good advice and then you ruined it.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:26 am

I wonder if your wife simply needs to find a new form of punishment. If spanking the pup makes it think that she's playing with it, that's not going to be very useful. I'd see if she's comfortable trying something else out, like grabbing the dog by the scruff and dominating it....I'd suggest not flipping him on his back because he may associate that with playing as well, but if you just push the dog down on it's tummy (just like if he were laying down) and force his chin to the ground that's a more natural submissive position for a dog. I find getting big and loud and growly helps convey my dominance as well, especially if the pup is moving away from me, like in your wifes situation, I can still let the pup know that he's in trouble right when it happens and usually he'll go submissive before I even get to him. Good luck

Tim

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:50 am

The toast story is great. What you really need to do is tell the wife that you really don't care because she should have not left food unattended on the counter. GSP's always use thier nose, are hungry, capable of jumping, and she is the problem not the dog.

I had this conversation the other day. Countersurfing is 100% going to happen. Remove all food when you will not be in the room, even if you have to out it in the microwave or stove. If my wife leaves food out I will watch and let my dog grab it (depending on what IT is). And if she just licked it, when she is done eating I will show her pics if my phone is handy.

They are smarter than you think and sometimes the risk is nothing. Eat steak and get a slap on the butt or not eat it and wish you did. Easy stuff. Tell her that you are using the dog as an gauge to test how good of a mom she will be and leaving things on the counter is a huge NO NO. Lol.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:52 am

there is a cure...put mouse traps on the counter...a couple of snaps and they will be skeptical about chow up there

tnbndr · Post by **tnbndr** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:58 am

Or just don't allow them in the kitchen. I have an e-fence and put a field under the floor of the kitchen in the basement. The dogs do not cross the line, they sit in the living room and watch the action.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:53 am

PD08,
NO Petsmart class. I would find a group obedience class in one of your local parks. Call your Parks and Rec dept for more info. Many vets and groomers have cards of trainers working in your local area too. Check with them.

As it may have been said above.... You and your wife need to learn to prevent problems from occuring and also how to correct in dog terms not in human terms. If you watch Cesar Millan The Dog Whisperer on the cable / Dish channel Nat Geo Wild. Excellent info on how to relate in dog terms.

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