Recalling new pup ?

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Mon May 07, 2012 11:06 am

Just curious on how you guys teach your pup to come when you call him ? :roll:

Post by **Sharon** » Mon May 07, 2012 11:21 am

I start early at like 5 weeks. Whenever pup is coming towards me I say come. A couple of times and he's got the picture.

*** Important to never call pup and let him ignore you. EVERY time you call, get up and go to him if he doesn't come.

By the time we hit the field , "come" is very ingrained.

I can then use the e-collar to reinforce "come" if necessary. I've found though that it is rarely needed.

C.painter · Post by **C.painter** » Mon May 07, 2012 11:28 am

I am curious as well on this for another reason.

My pup was VERY good with recall... from soon after she came home till about 3.5 months old. Since that point she has learned that she can flip me the paw and run like the wind. She is good at recall 90% of the time... but you can see that look in her eye when she hesitates, and then she is off!

I now pretty much have to have her on a check cord so as to not give her the option of coming or not. I assume once she gets old enough for the e collar I can over lay the collar with the check cord, thus extending the check cord and we will be back to a good recall.

My question is this, is there another way to do it? i don't discipline her, I wait till she finally comes back and then praise. I don't give the call over and over again. I try and go get her if she doesn't come, but sometimes that leads to playing chase which I try and avoid.

Any other suggestions? Or is it do what I am doing and keep working on the recall and overlay the E collar when she is age appropriate?

Sorry didn't mean to hyjack your post, but I think it goes along the same lines.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon May 07, 2012 11:36 am

If the dog is in the field running and not coming back , she is ready for the e-collar. E collar is not only age appropriate but also appropriate when you have a dog running off.

TM79 · Post by **TM79** » Mon May 07, 2012 1:49 pm

I saw this and I think it could be a option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0eBekc1S4w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIINwy7BzP4

Thanks,
TM

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Mon May 07, 2012 2:50 pm

If you seach YouTube.com you can find all sorts of training lessons. Take a look and you will see what is out their.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon May 07, 2012 3:08 pm

MikeB wrote:If you seach YouTube.com you can find all sorts of training lessons. Take a look and you will see what is out their.

And a lot of crap too. I could post one but I'll restrain myself.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Mon May 07, 2012 4:38 pm

Food works pretty well with puppies.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Mon May 07, 2012 5:07 pm

brad27 wrote:Food works pretty well with puppies.

+ cold water to drink on a hot day + restrained recall + backing up, clapping + working in a "corridor" or alongside a fence + eventually checkcord + eventually e-collar

Limit the reps. Keep it fun and positive. Don't interrupt fun, distracting activities in a pup to call him to you - capitalize on a "lull"

Mike50 · Post by **Mike50** » Mon May 07, 2012 5:22 pm

Sharon wrote:I start early at like 5 weeks. Whenever pup is coming towards me I say come. A couple of times and he's got the picture.

*** Important to never call pup and let him ignore you. EVERY time you call, get up and go to him if he doesn't come.

By the time we hit the field , "come" is very ingrained.

I can then use the e-collar to reinforce "come" if necessary. I've found though that it is rarely needed.

A bit of kibble as a reward doesn't hurt either when their young. At that age their always searching for something they can put in their stomach. I'm talking about a piece of their reagular feed nothing big.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon May 07, 2012 6:08 pm

From the beginning the only time the dog hears his name is when i call it to me, dog never ever ever gets in trouble when it hears its name....that usually sets in their mind that coming to name is all good. Second thing is I rarely call them to me, let them roll.....

Tania_C · Post by **Tania_C** » Mon May 07, 2012 8:11 pm

I use a flexi-lead and treats when they are puppies. Start by giving them the command to come and treat immediately when they come to you. Drop you your knee at first if they have no inkling, that usually gets a pup to come. Once they know what 'come/here' means, then you can start with the flexi, or check cord, but flexi is easier. Take dog for walk and let them get out a ways, hopefully into some good distractions. Command them to come, and if they don't react immediately - smelling the ground, etc., lock the lead and give them a tug, then treat when they get to you.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon May 07, 2012 8:47 pm

I use food. I have also started using Susan Garrett's method of calling the dog in and releasing them so they don't associate the command with being picked up every time.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Tue May 08, 2012 7:54 am

I put the e-collar on the highest setting and fry them until they get it.

I AM KIDDING!

I don't use treats. I use praise. Even when they blow you off and you have to walk them down and bring them back they don't get physically reprimanded. When they do it right they get all kinds of praise. When they don't I try to be as non-emotional as possible with no praise. Make sense?

They learn it on the cord first, then the yard and then the field. If they need tweaked, we overlay the ecollar with MILD stimulation. It does work

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Tue May 08, 2012 9:38 am

Francois, think SAPO - and treats (and try to get past how eager [and wrongheaded?] our pointing brethren are to invoke use of the e-collar).

There's a little recall game for pups called "post office" (SAPO) - calls for you and another human (as helper), some soft liver treats, and the pup (at 12-14 weeks or much earlier if you want).

Start out with the other person restraining the pup as you walk up to it and put a treat in front of its nose, then you walk out about 10 yards and call the pup to you. The pup will come in a flash - following its nose to get the treat (and your lavish praise for having done so).

Then have your helper walk to you while you restrain the pup - only this time, it's the helper who puts the treat in front of the pup and walks away, about 15 yards for this recall. The helper then calls the pup to him or her and again immediately rewards the pup with a treat (and praise) when it arrives. Do this only a couple of times the first few days with each of you, respectively, rewarding the pup when it comes to you for the treat. And giving the "Good dog!" treatment with great enthusiasm upon each arrival.

Keep repeating this exercise over the course of a couple of weeks until you've gradually extended the distance to several hundred yards - repeatedly blowing your come-in whistle (three blasts) while the pup's en route, and always instantaneously rewarding the pup's arrival with the treat (and praise to let pup know it's done good).

Recall's a snap once it's engrained the post office way - because it's become a habit even before the treats are taken away. May take a little time to get the pup stretched out to those hundreds of yards and recalling perfectly, but pretend you're Dolly D'Oliveira

and think of it like single runs instead of sixes in cricket - they start to add up over the match and next thing you know, you're at a tonne and still standing.

MG

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Tue May 08, 2012 9:58 am

As a puppy, I begin teachung them by waiting 'till they are coming to me and then give the command. to get them to come to me, I will do whatever works for that particular dog, including and especially bribery.

I will get a helper(usually my wife) to handle one of the two checkcords on the dog and call the dog back and forth to each of us, with praise/treats each time the come...even if they have to be reeled in..

Several checkcord sessions usually ingrains the response fairly well. I have a pup right now that is VERY bold, very independent and pretty smart... and is really good at ignoring me when I call her name out, so she is going to be a challenge. Food seems to work pretty well with her so I have a hook at least.

With an older puppy I will take it to a waterless area when it is warm. I will let the pup run without watering it first and after about five minutes or so, call the pup in. When it comes in to my call, I will give it a couple of squirts of water and send it out again. By the end of the session the pup usually thinks I am some sort of god because I am the one with the water.

If the pup comes in on its own for water, I do not give it, but rather send the pup out and THEN I call it back in. It only gets water when it comes in to my call.

One caution I will give. I do this with trial bred pointers that are bred to run in the heat. Even so, I carry enough water with me, even if I am on foot, to competely soak the dog down(1 gal or more) and I am prepared to carry the dog back if necessary. There is enough water back at the truck to thoroughly wet the dog down and I make sure the air conditioning system works in the vehicle. I also carry a packet of honey or jelly with me, JUST IN CASE. If you are doing this with a dark colored, overweight,out of condition or longhaired dog , be especially observant for signs of heat stress, as it can come on quickly. Review the sign of heat stress, if you are at all unsure of them before you do something like this this. An ounce of preparation and prevention....

RayG

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Tue May 08, 2012 10:48 am

i have my sister at supper hold pup while i set down his food. i then use WHISTLE 1 time then she releases the pup.
whistle bothers my sister but it works. then as he gets older, i use his name too.
i also gun train my labs this way too.
sister holds the pup in kitchen,i blow whistle outside, she lets him go and then i shoot my pistol, 22cal in air.

just make sure you tell neighbors what you are doing.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Tue May 08, 2012 1:32 pm

I use the term "recall," too. Spent some time with a pro who had never heard that before. For some reason he got mad - not confused, mad - that I called it a "recall" instead of a "here." Anyhow...

If I have a dog from a puppy, then I just say his name a lot, especially when he's about to get something good, so it will engrain in his head. Soon, he knows when I say his name it should be followed with him coming to me. Where a lot of people make a mistake, and why their dog won't recall, isn't because the dog doesn't know the command, it's because the dog doesn't respect thm. If someone make absolutely sure, in all other situations, that your dog listens to you and you project an alpha image and their dog takes subordinate roll, then they will most likely listen when they're called away from another dog, from the field or whatever. It's all about dominance and fostering that alpha-subordinate relationship.

If I'm dealing with a big dog that I haven't had the chance to spend more time with to develop that kind of relationship, then I will keep them out of the field for a little while and get acclimated with them, get it so we like each other. Then I'll take them into the field with an eCollar and when I want them to come I will call him then hit the stimulation at the lowest level and work my way up until the dog comes. Don't want to hurt the dog, but he feels the stimulation and is unsure of the situation so he runs back to me. When I see him headed my way I release the stimulation. Low pressure, high impact. When he gets there, he gets lots of lovin'. Usually just takes a session or two before he starts listening and I don't use the collar very much beyond that. I'm training a friend's dog right now, as a matter of fact, and after the first time out he's become a great recaller and it hasn't kept him from staying a well-rounded dog.

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Tue May 08, 2012 10:11 pm

Francois P vd Walt wrote:Just curious on how you guys teach your pup to come when you call him ? :roll:

Looks like we all agree to this one thing doesn't what it takes snacks, rope, e collar THE DOG MUST COME WHEN YOU CALL !
And start slowly make friends give lotsa love enforce more or less in that order also taking pups maturity and understanding inti account.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Tue May 08, 2012 10:30 pm

Francois P vd Walt wrote:
Francois P vd Walt wrote:Just curious on how you guys teach your pup to come when you call him ? :roll:
Looks like we all agree to this one thing doesn't what it takes snacks, rope, e collar THE DOG MUST COME WHEN YOU CALL !
And start slowly make friends give lotsa love enforce more or less in that order also taking pups maturity and understanding inti account.

you all are right. biggest worry i have ever had over 46 yrs in bigwoods of pa is DOG NOT COMING BACK TO ME WHEN CALLED.
it is SO important that before you head to woods that your dog listens to you to COMEBACK.

if he goes after a deer and does not listen,GET READY FOR FEAR TO AFFECT YOU.its not fun.

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:29 am

JIM K wrote:
Francois P vd Walt wrote:
Francois P vd Walt wrote:Just curious on how you guys teach your pup to come when you call him ? :roll:
Looks like we all agree to this one thing doesn't what it takes snacks, rope, e collar THE DOG MUST COME WHEN YOU CALL !
And start slowly make friends give lotsa love enforce more or less in that order also taking pups maturity and understanding inti account.

you all are right. biggest worry i have ever had over 46 yrs in bigwoods of pa is DOG NOT COMING BACK TO ME WHEN CALLED.
it is SO important that before you head to woods that your dog listens to you to COMEBACK.

if he goes after a deer and does not listen,GET READY FOR FEAR TO AFFECT YOU.its not fun.

You loose a young dog once for a hour, and never again you go out without making sure pup will come when you call !

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Wed May 09, 2012 12:59 pm

[quote="Francois P vd WaltJust curious on how you guys teach your pup to come when you call him ? :roll:[/quote]

You loose a young dog once for a hour, and never again you go out without making sure pup will come when you call ![/quote][/quote]

Sometimes that can work both ways. If you have a youngster that strikes out on its own and doesn't care to keep in touch with you...sometimes the best thing you can do is to walk in the opposite direction...or hide ... or just sit down. if the dog is any kind of birddog...it will come back and look you up.

If it is a young dog, it may come back in a panic, after realizing it has "LOST" you. This can have a profound effect on a youngster in terms f not wanting to "lose" you again.

I firmly believe that a dog in the field has to WANT to stay with you. If it does not WANT to stay with me...it is free to go wherever it chooses, and so am I. That might sound harsh, but a dog that does not want to stay with you is pretty much useless to me as a hunting dog and it is an example of breeding that should not be continued.

I want a dog to hunt independently and seek game boldly, wherever his search may take him...BUT...the dog needs to understand that we are a team and he hunts both with me, but mostly he hunts FOR me. That means that no matter how far, how wide the dog searches, he has to know where I am, where I am going and he has to be there when I need him to...no matter what.

RayG

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Wed May 09, 2012 2:18 pm

I agree with Ray's post. I use every means possible to ensure the pup really wants to find me and get to me when it is called using both voice and recall whistle. I do this while the pup is still young and a bit uncertain of it itself in strange surroundings which might be my house and garden to start with. This is then extended into fields and woodlands and if the pup fails to recall I either walk the other way from it, or hide behind a tree to watch it or maybe crouch down if in long grass. Most pups start to look a bit panic stricken and try to find me. I think it is the dogs job to find me, not my job to find it.

I praise profusely when the pup "finds" me and in the early stages I often give a food treat. I don't use check cords or e-collars for recalls .....but I would if I had to .

Bill T.

deke · Post by **deke** » Wed May 09, 2012 5:25 pm

Depends on how old the pup is? 8 weeks i use treats, and alot of praise if he comes. 6 months, If i have to chase him he better run till i can no longer find him cause he is getting a beatin when i do. A e collar on high works pretty well also, reinforces that when called the pup better be running back to you.

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Wed May 09, 2012 10:10 pm

deke wrote:Depends on how old the pup is? 8 weeks i use treats, and alot of praise if he comes. 6 months, If i have to chase him he better run till i can no longer find him cause he is getting a beatin when i do. A e collar on high works pretty well also, reinforces that when called the pup better be running back to you.

+1 when I have to run the dog down to catch it, he will regret not coming !

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Thu May 10, 2012 5:02 am

Francois P vd Walt wrote:
deke wrote:Depends on how old the pup is? 8 weeks i use treats, and alot of praise if he comes. 6 months, If i have to chase him he better run till i can no longer find him cause he is getting a beatin when i do. A e collar on high works pretty well also, reinforces that when called the pup better be running back to you.
+1 when I have to run the dog down to catch it, he will regret not coming !

If the pup regrets not coming do you really think he will want to come the next time. Do you think his thought processis "if I don't come I will get beat". More likely "if I go near him I will get beat"
He will run til you can't find him CJ

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Thu May 10, 2012 6:23 am

cjhills wrote:
Francois P vd Walt wrote:
deke wrote:Depends on how old the pup is? 8 weeks i use treats, and alot of praise if he comes. 6 months, If i have to chase him he better run till i can no longer find him cause he is getting a beatin when i do. A e collar on high works pretty well also, reinforces that when called the pup better be running back to you.
+1 when I have to run the dog down to catch it, he will regret not coming !

If the pup regrets not coming do you really think he will want to come the next time. Do you think his thought processis "if I don't come I will get beat". More likely "if I go near him I will get beat"
He will run til you can't find him CJ

Bingo, cj. That's why you entice them with treats as told above - you're ensuring the pup wants to come to you, and at speed. Particularly with retrievers. Burn them with "an e-collar on high" - that's a joke, right? "Hiding" and check cords unnecessary too.

MG

deke · Post by **deke** » Thu May 10, 2012 10:14 am

Its not a joke my dogs come when called, without question and without fail.

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Thu May 10, 2012 3:04 pm

cjhills wrote:
Francois P vd Walt wrote:
deke wrote:Depends on how old the pup is? 8 weeks i use treats, and alot of praise if he comes. 6 months, If i have to chase him he better run till i can no longer find him cause he is getting a beatin when i do. A e collar on high works pretty well also, reinforces that when called the pup better be running back to you.
+1 when I have to run the dog down to catch it, he will regret not coming !

If the pup regrets not coming do you really think he will want to come the next time. Do you think his thought processis "if I don't come I will get beat". More likely "if I go near him I will get beat"
He will run til you can't find him CJ

I was hoping you were following the tread, I would only enforce recalling if I know he knows what I wanted from him.
I do not use a e collar but rather one on one after all it is between us, if I call him and by now he knows what I want and he gives me the middle finger I will run him down and he will regret ..... IT.

Post by **Sharon** » Thu May 10, 2012 3:25 pm

Buckeye_V wrote:I put the e-collar on the highest setting and fry them until they get it.

I AM KIDDING!

I don't use treats. I use praise. Even when they blow you off and you have to walk them down and bring them back they don't get physically reprimanded. When they do it right they get all kinds of praise. When they don't I try to be as non-emotional as possible with no praise. Make sense?

They learn it on the cord first, then the yard and then the field. If they need tweaked, we overlay the ecollar with MILD stimulation. It does work

Good post although you had me worried at first.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Thu May 10, 2012 3:35 pm

[quote="Francois P vd Walt +1 when I have to run the dog down to catch it, he will regret not coming ![/quote]

I was hoping you were following the tread, I would only enforce recalling if I know he knows what I wanted from him.
I do not use a e collar but rather one on one after all it is between us, if I call him and by now he knows what I want and he gives me the middle finger I will run him down and he will regret ..... IT.[/quote]

If the youngster knows, without question, what the command means and that compliance is not an option, and still chose to give his trainer the 'ol fazoole... then a "Come to Jesus" meeting is very much appropriate.

I can actually remember having to run a puppy down...a few times actually, in the dim past, before e-collars and before horses. (Also before about 40 some odd extra pounds

). Each pup knew I was not happy...even if I was out of breath. If I tried that today, I might just be reserving some space on a morgue slab.

:roll:

RayG

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Fri May 11, 2012 2:15 pm

I'm in the same boat ! I used to run down dogs that, despite all previous training, refused to stop to whistle. I found this worked very well. I think many dogs believe their trainers are just about rooted to the spot, I used to be able to show them otherwise. I noticed that when the dog finally "gave in" as I ran after it I did not have to use more than fairly mild physical correction. The psychological effect on the dogs mind was enough to ensure future obedience.

I don't use an e-collar and I am now struggling a bit due to advancing years and health problems and can no longer run a dog down. This prompts me to ask , what is meant by "overlaying" with the e-collar ? It is probably high time I tried to do this before I pop my clogs trying to catch a wayward dog !

Bill T.

ibbowhunting · Post by **ibbowhunting** » Fri May 11, 2012 3:27 pm

Trekmoor wrote: I'm in the same boat ! I used to run down dogs that, despite all previous training, refused to stop to whistle. I found this worked very well. I think many dogs believe their trainers are just about rooted to the spot, I used to be able to show them otherwise. I noticed that when the dog finally "gave in" as I ran after it I did not have to use more than fairly mild physical correction. The psychological effect on the dogs mind was enough to ensure future obedience.

I don't use an e-collar and I am now struggling a bit due to advancing years and health problems and can no longer run a dog down. This prompts me to ask , what is meant by "overlaying" with the e-collar ? It is probably high time I tried to do this before I pop my clogs trying to catch a wayward dog !

Bill T.

i think what overlaying a e- collars means is to use it in conjuntion with a check cord or other training at the same time to insure that to dog understands what your asking it to do, before you just strap on a e collar and start pushing buttons and the dog has no idea what your asking it to do.i just started this with my dog and so far she responds better to the ecollar then the check cord and with a 1 mile range thats one long check cord. btw i'm using level 2 out of 18 and i can barely feel it when i try it on my arm

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Fri May 11, 2012 4:17 pm

ibbowhunting wrote:i just started this with my dog and so far she responds better to the ecollar then the check cord and with a 1 mile range thats one long check cord. btw i'm using level 2 out of 18 and i can barely feel it when i try it on my arm

I've heard of this more than a few times. Nice job trying the collar on your arm too - I'd always want to know what mine is doing.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Fri May 11, 2012 4:53 pm

Trekmoor wrote:I don't use an e-collar and I am now struggling a bit due to advancing years and health problems and can no longer run a dog down. This prompts me to ask , what is meant by "overlaying" with the e-collar ? It is probably high time I tried to do this before I pop my clogs trying to catch a wayward dog !

"Overlaying" the e-collar is the same thought process as overlaying a voice command to a behavior. If we accept the term cue in training a tug on a collar with a checkcord is a cue given to the dog. If its the method you use; you use tugs or pops on the collar and pull in the checkcord until the dog comes to you. Eventually (or with some folks) from the start you would overlay the word "come or here" to the physical cue that we described as the tug. In short order, the dog understands that the tug stops when he comes; after reps he learns there is no tug at all if he comes at the word and because you have been consistent immedikate compliance is required. The learned cue is the tug to establish a new cue, you simply use it immediately prior to the original cue on a consistent basis until the dog responds to the first cue. Hickox refers to it in his explanations as pre-cue/cue. The pre-cue becaomes the cue, the dog hears "come" and knows the tug is coming so he cues on the word and voila a dog is at your feet.

So...with the collar you establish the LOWEST level the dog can feel...this is established by something as benign as a blink when you push the button or a simple ear perk. It should not feel like a correction or look like one. Then overlay the collar with a nick followed by the learned cue ( tug with the checkcord)...eventually the process can be reversed a command is given as a primary cue to a learned behavior, you then have the option of making a correction if your command is refused and the dog relates the correction to the failure to perform as cued to do so. The correction can be given immediately, without emotion and at a distance.

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Sat May 12, 2012 2:13 am

Chukar12 wrote:
Trekmoor wrote:I don't use an e-collar and I am now struggling a bit due to advancing years and health problems and can no longer run a dog down. This prompts me to ask , what is meant by "overlaying" with the e-collar ? It is probably high time I tried to do this before I pop my clogs trying to catch a wayward dog !
"Overlaying" the e-collar is the same thought process as overlaying a voice command to a behavior. If we accept the term cue in training a tug on a collar with a checkcord is a cue given to the dog. If its the method you use; you use tugs or pops on the collar and pull in the checkcord until the dog comes to you. Eventually (or with some folks) from the start you would overlay the word "come or here" to the physical cue that we described as the tug. In short order, the dog understands that the tug stops when he comes; after reps he learns there is no tug at all if he comes at the word and because you have been consistent immedikate compliance is required. The learned cue is the tug to establish a new cue, you simply use it immediately prior to the original cue on a consistent basis until the dog responds to the first cue. Hickox refers to it in his explanations as pre-cue/cue. The pre-cue becaomes the cue, the dog hears "come" and knows the tug is coming so he cues on the word and voila a dog is at your feet.

So...with the collar you establish the LOWEST level the dog can feel...this is established by something as benign as a blink when you push the button or a simple ear perk. It should not feel like a correction or look like one. Then overlay the collar with a nick followed by the learned cue ( tug with the checkcord)...eventually the process can be reversed a command is given as a primary cue to a learned behavior, you then have the option of making a correction if your command is refused and the dog relates the correction to the failure to perform as cued to do so. The correction can be given immediately, without emotion and at a distance.

Good explanation ! Good post

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sat May 12, 2012 3:08 pm

Thanks for the explanation.

It's time to try it before the collar is banned by this countries crazy, vote seeking, politicians. :roll:

Bill T.

4dabirds · Post by **4dabirds** » Sat May 12, 2012 4:07 pm

One thing I could add to these posts is that if the dog will recall eight out of ten times the dog is ready for the e-collar to be overlaid on the command . Once you have trained the command take into consideration another thing that may cause you to have a problem .When you give the dog a command, you better be sure that the dog will respond positively to any command you give . If the dog blows you off ,the only thing you are teaching the dog is that it does not have to listen. Say the command once and mean it .If the dog does not respond the first time ,notify and correct the dog for its indiscretion. If you are saying the command more then once, which time you say it, are you expecting the dog to respond on. Without the e-coller you have no mechanism to guarantee the response is positive. The more repetitions you give the dog, of commands that are not positively responded to ,the more you are teaching the dog to not respond to your commands. The long and short of this is ,never give a command you can not enforce.

zzweims · Post by **zzweims** » Mon May 14, 2012 7:30 am

My philosophy is to convince the dog that coming to me is the greatest thing in the world. With pups, it's easy. Exuberant praise usually does it. As they get older and bolder the key is to know when to call the dog. You don't want to set the pup (or yourself) up for failure. I don't expect a birdy, untrained, youngster in full chase, to stop in his tracks and come to me the instant I call. Therefor, I don't call. Throughout the dog's life, I ask myself: "Is coming to me better than staying away? If not, why not?" Then I find a way to make coming to me better than the alternative. With some dogs, you can use nothing more than positive reinforcement. With others, you have to use both positive and negative. Come is good-you will be rewarded; not coming is bad--you will be scolded. And no matter what, I never punish a dog for coming when called, even if it took the little stinker a while to get there.

Aline

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Tue May 15, 2012 11:28 am

What I have learned from this also is once pup reacts never walk in a straight line, or follow pup walk in a square or away from pup. He has to learn to follow you !

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Wed May 16, 2012 12:29 pm

Another update !

Pup runs well and now keeps contact without recalling, just walking away from pup and changing direction all the time.
Within a week a BIG change ! 20min a day keeps the pro trainers away, Ha !

Only when we have to many birds flying around pup gets away a little, then I sit down and wait what took 25min now takes 10min !

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Wed May 30, 2012 11:57 am

Just a recap :

I started walking with pup everyday first walking following pup as soon as I saw pup was getting confidant I started walking in a square or away from pup.

Today she chased a dove flying low passing by and got lost I retrned to the vechicle called a couple of times 10min later pup arrives.
This has taken 2 weeks with a very good result I think the walking away the whole time forced her to start looking and marking were I was. I also am a firm believer a pup must get lost once or twice and hopefully learn from it !