Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

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polmaise
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Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by polmaise » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:34 pm

It would appear globally accepted these days to have advice or guidance from a Gundog Trainer or Mentor.
,,,,,,,,
Personally, as a Dog Trainer I often advise client's to seek other Trainers during Training process. Programs would suggest not.
,,.......
Perhaps if the program is working for the dog and handler there is no requirement?..
What if the dog and handler are not achieving results according to the program. Do Trainer's advise another course, or alternative program?.
As a "Coach " The Student is or should be the beneficiary in the Training of the dog ( Imo). Unless I have it wrong?🤔😅

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by ON Honker Hunter » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:35 am

Not entirely sure what you're trying to say here, but let me take a stab at it: If at first you don't succeed with a trainee handler, you should advise him/her to try, try again ... with someone else. You seem to be questioning if that is not the ethical thing for all trainers/mentors to do? Hope I got that right.

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by Featherfinder » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:50 am

Training here does not have that format so I can't comment Poly, if I understand you correctly. Like ON Hunt, I'm not so sure...???
I train the dogs here. Subsequently, I train the handler to retain their investment in the dog's performance.

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by cjhills » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:24 am

Most trainers I know would not advise going to somebody else. When two trainers discuss a third trainer It is generally not positive.....Cj

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by shags » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:44 am

The two trainers I've hired in the past 12 years or so would recommend trying a different trainer if they weren't able to get anywhere with a particular dog.
They also would talk to other trainers for advice if a dog was giving them grief on a particular problem.
Both encourage owners to learn to handle their own dogs.
Either would most likely dump a PITA owner, depending on the severity of the pain.

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by polmaise » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:17 pm

shags wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:44 am
The two trainers I've hired in the past 12 years or so would recommend trying a different trainer if they weren't able to get anywhere with a particular dog.
They also would talk to other trainers for advice if a dog was giving them grief on a particular problem.
Both encourage owners to learn to handle their own dogs.
Either would most likely dump a PITA owner, depending on the severity of the pain.
Spot On !

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by gonehuntin' » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:36 pm

If someone didn't believe in my program or methods, I'd send their dog home and tell them to get another trainer. I didn't have time for anyone to doubt me or my methods. There was one way to do things and that was my way.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by polmaise » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:41 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:36 pm
If someone didn't believe in my program or methods, I'd send their dog home and tell them to get another trainer. I didn't have time for anyone to doubt me or my methods. There was one way to do things and that was my way.
:mrgreen:
LOL
Makes some wonder why there is any other way .
I personally Love you gonehuntin, we should have a beer sometime.

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by gonehuntin' » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:22 pm

Plenty of other ways but my way had proven very successful for me in field trials. I wouldn't let anyone tell me to modify this or that. i KNEW my methods worked and knew the client had no idea what he was talking about. i was always so busy that there was no time for doubters.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by polmaise » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:31 pm

For You !
Congratulations. and well done for Your achievements .
......
Poor old me has a dog , said Me ..Or someone on a Forum. :wink:

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by Trekmoor » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:26 am

:lol: I'm enjoying this thread ! :lol: I got lucky while I was still young enough to make some use of the luck . I seemed to attract "mentors" from among the old guard of gundog trainers. I took all of their often forcefully given criticisms and came back for more but I did not always do as they had told me to do. I was "panning for gold" among the gravel of all the well meaning advice.


My first mentor and the one I remained very good friends with until he died was a cantankerous old sod called Harry Mc Tier. He kicked off our relationship during the very first field trial I ever entered. It was a novice retriever trial and he was one of the judges.

He asked me , " Are you (insert swear word here) stupid or something ?" as I was attempting to handle my bitch. She was working on a pheasant runner and I thought I knew better than she did which way to go to find it ! :oops: :oops: :oops: I took the hint and left her alone and she came back with the pheasant.

On her next retrieve (we were in a very large and muddy turnip field with, it seemed, a pheasant hiding behind every second turnip ,) she went out of control and began to deliberately find and flush literally dozens of birds. I tried the stop whistle and I tried the recall whistle and they had no effect so I resorted to shouting at her. That didn't work either and the judges very forcefully told me to get out there and catch her ! I began to chase after her but have you ever tried to run in a muddy turnip field ? :roll: I tripped and fell time after time before I finally managed to get hold of her.

I began to trudge back towards the judges, other handlers and spectators who were all utterly silent as they witnessed my walk of shame. I'd had dreams of impressing all those people but I got the opposite.
Harry got hold of me later and told me a few home truths and I entered another trial after a bit more training with my bitch. This seemed to be approved of by the old timers who then knew I wouldn't easily be put off. They all began to give advice, they liked my attitude of taking my licks and still coming back for more.

That same bitch won a few trials and got to the retriever championships where I got eliminated ....but only after achieving the distinction of telling the Queen to move out of the way and having her do it ! But that's another story. :lol:

My advice to beginners is to listen to advice offered but to think for yourself too. There will be more gravel than gold in the prospecting pan. Find your own "method."


Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by averageguy » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:07 am

Nice Post Bill T.

These days Beginners have numerous excellent sources of information in the form of DVDs, Local Dog training clubs and Pro Trainers. Choosing and following a program at that stage of the Handler's development is for the best. If they can find a local, eyes on the Handler and Dog, mentor, even better.

As I gained experience, I have found benefit in picking and choosing from numerous sources and adapting them to the specific dog and area of training I am working with at the time.

I still seek out Trainers that I have confidence in, listen and learn from them. I do not loose sight of the fact it is my dog and I remain free to use however much of the advice I receive, from following it precisely, to adapting it, to not using it at all. I do not think one approach best fits all dogs and areas of training, nor do I believe that those Pros only use one approach either. I think the instruction they share with others productively focuses on what works well with most dogs vs bogging it down with what they do when hard case exceptions are encountered.

If a Handler cannot adapt, their dogs and results will suffer.

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by shags » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:29 am

Does anyone else want to hear Bill's story about his request of the queen?

"Please step aside, Madam, I have a dog to run."

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by Trekmoor » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:05 am

It wiznae a request ! I'm lucky I never got my heid chopped off ! :lol:

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by polmaise » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:08 pm

There are some excellent Trainers and there are some excellent handlers.
There is some excellent handlers that couldn't teach another handler how to walk a dog to heel.There is some Trainers that can teach their own dogs ,and there are many that advise others . A few are training handlers to be excellent handlers.

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by shags » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:56 pm

Trekmoor wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:05 am
It wiznae a request ! I'm lucky I never got my heid chopped off ! :lol:

Bill T.
OMG!

"Move it, Toots! Cancha see I'm tryin to run my dog?"

So glad you made it out of there with your head attached :D

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by polmaise » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:32 pm

Whilst there is a grain of truth within everyone's interpretations of events or training ,poetic licence for some with a flair in the written word. Those in the gallery see a different story.😉

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:39 pm

Bill T, every winter a slug of us retriever trainers would meet in Arizona. All of us. We're from different parts of the country; east, west, Midwest, south so it was rare for us to compete with each other. The exchange of information each winter was phenomenal. I miss that.
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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by DonF » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:14 pm

Trekmoor wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:26 am
:lol: I'm enjoying this thread ! :lol: I got lucky while I was still young enough to make some use of the luck . I seemed to attract "mentors" from among the old guard of gundog trainers. I took all of their often forcefully given criticisms and came back for more but I did not always do as they had told me to do. I was "panning for gold" among the gravel of all the well meaning advice.


My first mentor and the one I remained very good friends with until he died was a cantankerous old sod called Harry Mc Tier. He kicked off our relationship during the very first field trial I ever entered. It was a novice retriever trial and he was one of the judges.

He asked me , " Are you (insert swear word here) stupid or something ?" as I was attempting to handle my bitch. She was working on a pheasant runner and I thought I knew better than she did which way to go to find it ! :oops: :oops: :oops: I took the hint and left her alone and she came back with the pheasant.

On her next retrieve (we were in a very large and muddy turnip field with, it seemed, a pheasant hiding behind every second turnip ,) she went out of control and began to deliberately find and flush literally dozens of birds. I tried the stop whistle and I tried the recall whistle and they had no effect so I resorted to shouting at her. That didn't work either and the judges very forcefully told me to get out there and catch her ! I began to chase after her but have you ever tried to run in a muddy turnip field ? :roll: I tripped and fell time after time before I finally managed to get hold of her.

I began to trudge back towards the judges, other handlers and spectators who were all utterly silent as they witnessed my walk of shame. I'd had dreams of impressing all those people but I got the opposite.
Harry got hold of me later and told me a few home truths and I entered another trial after a bit more training with my bitch. This seemed to be approved of by the old timers who then knew I wouldn't easily be put off. They all began to give advice, they liked my attitude of taking my licks and still coming back for more.

That same bitch won a few trials and got to the retriever championships where I got eliminated ....but only after achieving the distinction of telling the Queen to move out of the way and having her do it ! But that's another story. :lol:

My advice to beginners is to listen to advice offered but to think for yourself too. There will be more gravel than gold in the prospecting pan. Find your own "method."


Bill T.
I read a piece about Dr Alvin Nitchman by his daughter years ago. She said they were watching this guy's dog run off and the guy kept screaming whoa to it over and over. Alvin looked at his daughter and said, " wonder what he tells his dog when he wants it to stop and stand still". Always liked that!
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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Re: Gun Dog Trainers/Mentors.

Post by Pszara » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:48 am

Wow... Amzing Post. I really liked it. want more like this ..

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