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Started Dog

Started Dog

Postby Sharon » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 pm

I've rec'd a couple e mails asking "What is a started dog?" These are folks looking to buy and the advertising says, "He is a started dog."

I have gave my own thought on this , but thought it would be helpful if others contributed.
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Re: Started Dog

Postby Garrison » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:01 pm

I think asking price and age has a lot do with it. I would consider buying a “dog” advertised as started if it had been exposed to birds, obedience and yard work initiated, collar conditioned and derby abilities on birds. In other words a dog that would be close to where I would want it in its training progression if I owned it from day one. Started puppy would be same, pup should be where I would want it for its age.
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Re: Started Dog

Postby DonF » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:01 am

I don't know what started really means. I saw an add some time back for started dog's. They were anywhere from 6 mos to about a year and $750. I'd miss the puppy stage so wouldn't get one but in fact, they just might be the best deal out there. Say a 6 mos old pup for $750, shoot you pay that or more for an 8 wk old puppy! I suspect they only come from handler's with string's of field trial prospect's and he evaluating them. Don't want to spend more time on one that he doesn't think will make it so put's a price on them that moves them out. I wouldn't worry about what the 6 or 8 mo old pup was taught, what could have gone wrong? It's simply not a field trial prospect! You go to a breeder that sell his pup's to supplement his trialing and for an 8 wk old pup pay from $1200 on up! That's for a pup there is go guarantee on other than health probably. If it wasn't 6 mos old, give me the started dog, I love puppy's!

I have seen where some breeder's have left over pup's and start them then sell them as started but the price goes way up too! Suddenly your paying $1500 plus for a pup called a started! Don't know what started means by 6 mos from a breeder but I suspect it means the pup will kennel and actually recognize's a bird. Same as you'd get at 6 mos in a field trial wash out but the washout is only around $750! And on top of that just because it washed out doesn't mean it wouldn't be a trial dog, just that it was or is a late developer. Read about the greatest Field trial washout ever a few years ago. It's name was Guard Rail!
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Re: Started Dog

Postby JONOV » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 am

"Great Bloodline. "Championship Bloodline." "Both Parents are great hunters." "Started Dog."

It means a dog that isn't a puppy and has had some exposure to birds, probably, at some point.

It means one thing for a pro or big time amateur Field Trialer with years of experience to say "That's one heckuva bloodline" and or purchase a "Started dog" from a fellow field trialer. But, that's only because there's an acknowledgement of what the playing field looks like, where the goal is, and what the rules are. Similarly important, one must know the relevant questions to ask. IE, someone looking for a shooting dog prospect for their string would know to ask, "Has the dog been North to the prairies? Who with?" A dog that's had a summer with George Hickox is a different "started dog" than the guy that has a GSP that's 12 months old and has passed its NAVHDA NA test.

Outside of that, its like saying "Sportscar." A Honda, Subaru, Porsche, Ferrari, and racecar all count.
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Re: Started Dog

Postby mask » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:54 am

First of all it is buyer beware. I would never buy a "started dog" with out seeing what the dog can do. A trial dog that doesn't run big enough is one thing a dog that has been screwed up in one way or another is a horse of a different color. Not all folks with dogs for sale are honest. If you don't know much about bird dogs take someone with you who does but see the dog in action first.
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Re: Started Dog

Postby Trekmoor » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:19 pm

mask wrote: If you don't know much about bird dogs take someone with you who does but see the dog in action first.


I couldn't agree more .

Assuming that a "Started Dog" is much the same as it's equivalent in Britain ..."The Part Trained Dog," the question I always ask is ..."which part was trained." The variables are endless !

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Re: Started Dog

Postby polmaise » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:47 pm

Sharon wrote:I've rec'd a couple e mails asking "What is a started dog?" These are folks looking to buy and the advertising says, "He is a started dog."

I have gave my own thought on this , but thought it would be helpful if others contributed.

Using a Constant ... (That would be Your perception) regarding this thread . So that would be a start , and I for one would like to hear that ?
It may also help others on here that have not been included in e-mails . Thanks .
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Re: Started Dog

Postby bustingcover » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:02 pm

My idea of a started dog is green broke. Basic obedience, introduced to birds, knows woah, steady to flush.
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Re: Started Dog

Postby Sharon » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:30 pm

polmaise wrote:
Sharon wrote:I've rec'd a couple e mails asking "What is a started dog?" These are folks looking to buy and the advertising says, "He is a started dog."

I have gave my own thought on this , but thought it would be helpful if others contributed.

Using a Constant ... (That would be Your perception) regarding this thread . So that would be a start , and I for one would like to hear that ?
It may also help others on here that have not been included in e-mails . Thanks .


I'm sorry , but I don't know what you are talking about. Are you asking what I think?? Mask said what I think. The definition of started varies from person to person to person. I would always see the dog and ask the seller to show me what the dog can do. It can vary from "He's seen a bird." to " He's starting to point."
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Re: Started Dog

Postby RyanDoolittle » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:36 pm

Sharon wrote:I've rec'd a couple e mails asking "What is a started dog?" These are folks looking to buy and the advertising says, "He is a started dog."

I have gave my own thought on this , but thought it would be helpful if others contributed.



It could mean anything. That’s why some are priced at $1000 and some started dogs are 10,000.
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Re: Started Dog

Postby birddogger2 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:58 pm

A "started" bird dog, as has been said, can mean a lot of different things to different people.

What is important is what the term means to the person who is selling the dog. It is the seller that defines the term for that particular dog.

However, it is up to the buyer to pin down "EXACTLY" what the seller means for that dog. The devil is indeed in the details. But you can only do that by asking pointed questions about the dog's training progress.

By way of example:
If the dog is "green broke", just exactly how many birds has the dog pointed and not chased?
If the dog has had basic obedience, will it heel, come and kennel off lead?
If the dog has been collar conditioned... just what has it been conditioned to do?
If the dog "has been "introduced to retrieving" will it, in fact bring a thrown bumper or buck back to the thrower?

Once you get the seller to commit to these kinds of specific answers, it is time to go see the dog and see what it can, in fact, actually do.

It is best to do this kind of evaluation somewhere other than the trainer's facility before you put your money on the table. Just because a dog behaves at the place where it was trained, that does not mean the dog will act the same way in a different place.

Most private breeders of gun dogs are pretty straight. Breeding one or two litters of gundogs a year is generally a losing proposition and folks generally only do it because they want a pup or two for themselves. So the pups will be the best they can do for their purposes, most of the time.

However, it is very much "Caveat Emptor", so if you do not know what you are looking at...BRING SOMEONE WHO DOES.

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Re: Started Dog

Postby CDN_Cocker » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:34 am

Started can mean many things from having birds shot over them to just knowing their name and sit. Good idea to ask the seller what the dog's capability is at the time.
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Re: Started Dog

Postby gundogguy » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:52 am

Have no idea what a started Pointer or non-slip retriever is. However a started Springer should be gun proofed, retrieving within close proximity of the handler and have some response to the whistle commands.
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Re: Started Dog

Postby polmaise » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:23 pm

Over here this side of the pond ...I would like to think that a Started dog of any Gun Dog breed would already have the conditioned training of the basics of heel/sit/recall/steady to both shot and fall/deliver to hand on bumper/ stop whistle.
Other wise it would could be a well trained obedient Pet dog ..like a "Golden" . lol :lol: :wink:
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Re: Started Dog

Postby RyanDoolittle » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:25 pm

That sounds more like a finished dog vs a started dog.
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Re: Started Dog

Postby gundogguy » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:58 am

RyanDoolittle wrote:That sounds more like a finished dog vs a started dog.


Your probable correct in thinking that. As Robert said "over here" in UK that is, the standards are wee bit higher than here in the states. I might add that the Canadians also have higher standards than the US markets.
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Re: Started Dog

Postby RyanDoolittle » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:12 am

gundogguy wrote:
RyanDoolittle wrote:That sounds more like a finished dog vs a started dog.


Your probable correct in thinking that. As Robert said "over here" in UK that is, the standards are wee bit higher than here in the states. I might add that the Canadians also have higher standards than the US markets.



In the pointer world the 2 are so intertwined I dont understand how standards can be higher.
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Re: Started Dog

Postby Trekmoor » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:46 am

I don't think there is such a thing as a generally expected "standard of training" when talking about a started or part trained dog. One persons medium standard might be someone elses low standard.

If I saw a "started" pointing dog up for sale I would have to enquire closely about what it's standard was and even then I'd still want to see that dog in person before I handed over my money.
I have a "started" GSP pup right here but by "started" I would only mean he knows the vocal sit command and is beginning to respond to a whistled one when very close to me. His whistle recalls are very good …..but only if nothing is distracting him .
He has begun to hunt but so far I haven't let him out more than about 50 yards because of my lack of control over him. He has begun to point the pheasants he has found ….but still bumps some of them too. He sometimes holds his points for several seconds …..but sometimes he does not ! He does not chase the pheasants he flushes ….not more than 10 -20 feet anyway !

Retrieving - - - He does retrieve but only bumpers so far, he will only retrieve if no strong distractions are around like pheasants for example. He swims and he likes to splash around but is far from being an accomplished swimmer.

That's about it, he is a started dog but hasn't even reached the halfway mark in what I would call a good standard of training yet.
How much is such a 9 months old pup worth ? I would guess at around £ 900 - £1000 in British currency . In 6 months time his price could be less if I fail to reach my own minimum standards or the price could be more if I do reach those standards.

This is not an advert for the pup by the way , he is my daughters dog and I only get my hands on him about twice a week ! :lol:

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Re: Started Dog

Postby polmaise » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:50 pm

If any Dog has been stated as "Started" , then something has been done ?
A puppy at 8 weeks old is a dog that has "Started" some form of Training . (Over here, I see many adverts saying " 6 month old and a Blank Canvass" ) That really cant be true ! unless the dog has been locked up with no human contact for 4 months ? ..even then It would not be a Blank Canvass .

The interpretation of the seller and the buyer are often not the same when the Term "Started" is used .
Be best to say what the dog has done and how well it can accomplish these things

A dog that has had early training for field work intentions by the seller who has a kennel set up would have had different training, than the seller that had early training for the same intention but the dog had been in the home for example . (Not saying one is better than the other) But the kennel dog that has not been in a home environment would not have the same "Started" position .
My conclusion would be . There Is No such thing as a "Started Dog" ! It can either perform basic commands for whoever is handling it or not .
.......
A Retriever This side of the Pond being advertised at say 9 month - 1 year old for the intention to work in the shooting field would be classified as "Novice" and the dog would have demonstrated 1. Heel on and off off lead without pulling with distractions such as other dogs/people etc . 2. Re-call in all situations 3. Sociable with other dogs and people 4. Steady to both Shot and fall of dummy 4. Soft mouthed and No noise 5. Deliver to hand 6 .Have had fur or Feather retrieves with no issues. 7. Stop whistle remote from handler and have had Lining and casting established on dummy/bumper work .
Anything less , would be a Pet dog that may have some of those listed or even all, but to a poor standard that requires additional and extra curricular specific Training professionally to achieve that standard . (In most cases I have found , that is exactly why many "Started/Novice/Un trained dogs are advertised for sale :wink: )
...
Many make excellent shooting companions and or family members . The caveat would be how the buyer has Trained the dog from its "Started" position . :D
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Re: Started Dog

Postby Featherfinder » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:58 am

Sorry Polmaise. I deleted my offering accordingly. I had the OP's best intentions at heart.
Last edited by Featherfinder on Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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