launcher help PLEASE

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zoey'sonlyhope
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launcher help PLEASE

Post by zoey'sonlyhope » Sat May 12, 2012 7:54 pm

alright so i took the dog out with the launcher today. i feel like i skipped a step, she has no idea what the launcher is. i put her in her kennel in the field covered it with a blanket so she couldnt see me. put the bird in the launcher (the pigeons were carded). then had the wife let her out of her kennel and told her to hunt while i stood at the end of the 50 foot string. the dog found the bird but i think i let her get to close to it because its hard for me to tell when she is using her nose. i just need some direction on exactly what i do first, do i let her watch me put a bird in the launcher and launch it? also with the pigeons being carded she could have caught these birds, she chased them but didnt have any desire to put it in her mouth, should i be alarmed by this? she will retrieve dead pigeons and her prey drive seemed to be high because she LOVES to chase birds. whats the first step? thanks in advance for any help
Adam

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bwjohn
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by bwjohn » Sat May 12, 2012 8:15 pm

has your dog been introduced to birds?

has it ever pointed before?


did it ever catch the birds you put it on before?

brandon

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jcbuttry8
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by jcbuttry8 » Sat May 12, 2012 8:41 pm

I introduced Kona to the birds first. Let them go near her and let her chase. Made sure she knew what we were there for.

As for the launcher, I left her in the car and planted the bird. I then brought her to it cross wind. What I mean by this is when she hit the scent she had to turn right or left towards the scent. I made sure that she was a good 10 to 15 yards away. If she didn't stop right away and continued to the bird, I popped the release. I let her chase and didn't say a word. Stood exactly where I stopped and waited. She came back to the release, they will come back to the release. I picked her up and put her away. Then we did it again the next week. It took about 3 weeks for her to hit the scent and stop dead in her tracks.

That is when I started carrying a bird in each pocket of my coat along with the bird in the trap. I brought her in cross wind and she stopped and went on point. I would walk towards the trap backwards with one of the birds behind my back and watched her the whole time. If she moved even a little bit I dropped the bird. She chased, then came back and went on point. walked back in and repeated. When I was out of birds, we went home. She was standing her birds pretty well by time she was a year. It took a few months but you don't want to push it. I did this once a week, never more than that. I got this protocol from Doco on this site. It is how he worked his dogs. If you want proof, just go check out the fine beasts that he runs. Promise you, they are some pretty tight dogs on birds.

BEWARE** It is extremely hard for YOU to stop at one bird the first few weeks but stay strong!!!

Good luck and let us know how your progress,

Joe

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by zoey'sonlyhope » Sat May 12, 2012 9:02 pm

bwjohn wrote:has your dog been introduced to birds?

has it ever pointed before?


did it ever catch the birds you put it on before?

brandon
Brandon, this is the first time i have had her with live birds, she does point birds on runs and in the back yard but thats all sight pointing.

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by zoey'sonlyhope » Sat May 12, 2012 9:06 pm

Ok Joe thanks for the advice, so thats probably my fault then, i just put them in the launcher and expected her to know what they were there for. i did wave the bird in front of her kennel first to let her get scent. i need to let her know that those birds that i have DO FLY right? then let her go cross wind, on a check cord? also i have a manual launcher so should i have someone on the other end of the line? or should i set it up so that i can get to it fast enough to launch it?
Thanks again guys
Adam

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SetterNut
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by SetterNut » Sat May 12, 2012 9:34 pm

Do you have the pup on a check cord. If not I would.
You don't want the pup crowding the launcher. If the pup moves in launch the bird. It will only take a few of these and the pup will be staying on point longer and longer.

If there is a chance for a young dog to catch a bird, use the CC, A young dog catching a bird is not the end of the world, but not a good thing.
A bird or two at a time is enough, and you want to end each time out on a good note.
Steve

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by zoey'sonlyhope » Sat May 12, 2012 10:03 pm

Alright thanks. I think it will take a while for her, she seems that she wants to chase them, so it might take a bit for her to know she cant get them. and i dont think carded pigeons are going to work, they give her hope, i think im gonna just have to do one maybe two a week and like you said keep he begging for more, so after a bit she will slow down and anticipate the launch?
Thanks again
Adam

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SetterNut
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by SetterNut » Sat May 12, 2012 10:09 pm

Adam, how old is the dog and how many birds has it been on?
Chasing is normal for a young dog.
Steve

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by zoey'sonlyhope » Sat May 12, 2012 10:18 pm

she is a year old, and we got a late start on birds, i bought five pigeons yesterday and those are the first live birds shes been close too. she is still young but should start calming down a bit. she is a GSP if that helps any

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jcbuttry8
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by jcbuttry8 » Sat May 12, 2012 10:34 pm

zoey'sonlyhope wrote:Ok Joe thanks for the advice, so thats probably my fault then, i just put them in the launcher and expected her to know what they were there for. i did wave the bird in front of her kennel first to let her get scent. i need to let her know that those birds that i have DO FLY right? then let her go cross wind, on a check cord? also i have a manual launcher so should i have someone on the other end of the line? or should i set it up so that i can get to it fast enough to launch it?
Thanks again guys
Adam
I started out with a manual launcher. I used a 30 foot rope and stretched it out in the direction that we would be coming from. I made sure that I hit the rope before she hit the scent, but after week two she caught on. She would see the rope and get birdy well before the scent. They are smart.

The auto launcher would be better but we use what we got. I used a few pigeons in the beginning. I took Kona out and let her run. When she was coming into me I dropped a bird behind me and let it fly. I let her chase until she came back to me. Then started trap work after that. I don't know your dog but if she has drive you will probably be OK. Just take it slow and one or two birds at a time max. I just did one bird. I did all my bird work on hedge rows but I was getting her used to running edges for trials so I set the birds in a fashion that would work best for that. Make sure you get out far enough that she can not hit the release while you are releasing the bird. As stated above, I don't do any bird work without a check cord. My dog stands birds quite well now. Just had her out today and she didn't flinch on three birds, but she still sports the cc. I know the one time I take it off she will show me exactly who is in charge. If she is hitting the scent cross wind there will be no doubt when she hits the scent. If she doesn't stop immediately, I mean one step after she turns to the bird, pop the trap. I have never seen a pup take a release to the face but have heard of it and it sounds like it can be quite a problem to fix. The dog will learn quickly that they are the reason the bird flies, If the pigeons are not homing and you are using birds that will land at some point because you need to reuse them then I wouldn't let her chase to far. I have seen a few trainers that don't let them chase when using launchers they just use a longer check cord and stop the pup at the end of it. I wouldn't let the pup catch the birds.

I started my dog early but even at a year your dog should be fine. Do you have a shorthair club in your area? You might check if you have a club that does training days, or one you can join that has birds available. I am fortunate enough to be a member of a club that is 30 minutes away that has quail and homers readily available. I can't say enough about that.

Joe

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jcbuttry8
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by jcbuttry8 » Sat May 12, 2012 10:46 pm

If you choose to incorporate your wife that is great. She will get a sense of what you are trying to do. Just make sure she walks in with you and knows what is going on and let her lead the dog in and you pick up the rope and pull. Make sure you read the dog right. I only bring this up to make sure you don't plant the bird and the wife. You don't want the dog to know exactly where the bird is. She still needs to hunt for it somewhat.

My wife is not much on the bird dogs but my daughter is and she was my partner in crime. She loved it when she saw Kona hold the point for the first time. She came home and told mom what a great job she did to get Kona to point. Point is they feel the accomplishment too. You will find it will help your success in acquireing second and third dog. :D :D

Joe

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DonF
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by DonF » Sat May 12, 2012 11:34 pm

Don't worry about her using her nose right now, unless she's been on birds a lot and your certain she' has been using it. If your going to stand out there and wait for her, she's get's within about 10 or 15 yds, pop it no matter what she does. Don't szay a word. She might well come back and smell the trap, let her and don't say a word. She did nothing right and nothing wrong, she's just learning, let her. If she comes across it on the up windside and within about 10 yds, pop it. The thing to do with a trap is to think like a bird. If you think like a trainer and start giving her just one more chance, you're just setting her back. One problem your gonna have the way your doing it is at some point she's gonna start keying on you out there. She'll spot it in a sec and go straight to you to find the bird. As your wife is helping, with the manual launcher, go to check cording her into the bird. Once you have her there and stopped, have your wife flush the bird while you handle the dog. I have never used a string on a manual launcher because you can't be sure where the dog will hit it. If she hits on one side of the scent cone and the string is on the other, your gonna have to figure a way to keep her there and get the string at the same time, could be a problem. Just take the wife with you, you handle your dog and stop it on first scent, then your wife can go flush it for you. When you see her hit scent, do not give her a couple more steps to see if she'll stop on her own, she probably won't for several times.
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bwjohn
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by bwjohn » Sun May 13, 2012 10:25 am

preface,did not read everyones post, so if I repeat sorry.

I would go back a step and do a live bird intro. use a quail or something and pull flight feathers or tether it to the ground. and let her chase and play and not worry if she points of not. I would get the pup really wound up about birds before I go to the launchers.

I usually wait to use launchers until the dog is pointing pretty consistently. They can be a great tool, but you can also make a dog terrified of them as well. patience is key with young dogs.

brandon

zoey'sonlyhope
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by zoey'sonlyhope » Sun May 13, 2012 12:27 pm

Ok thanks guys thats tons of help, i just showed her the bird and had her watch me the whole time and let if fly. it drove her nuts. barking jumping up and down. i think she has great prey drive. this is my first dog so i have nothing to compare her to
Thanks again
Adam

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SetterNut
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by SetterNut » Sun May 13, 2012 1:31 pm

Adam
There are lots of good methods to train a dog with. I like the book "Training with Mo", it is simple and effective.

A mistake I made early on was trying to reuse pigeons by carding them. If a bird does not fly off it is very tempting for a young dog to chase.
The thing about advice on a board like this is nobody has seen how your dog is responding to the birds.

Young dogs need and want to chase some birds, then they realize that they can't catch them and start to watch them fly more than chase. They also learn that they can't pressure (get to close) the bird or it will fly off. Wild birds are very good for this, as they will not put up with much and they fly off.

If you do not have wild birds around, pigeons are the next best thing. Pen raised quail are about the worst birds for young dogs because they often don't fly far or fast enoungh. I have am lucky enough to have some wild quail and pheasants around, and good friend that has some homing pigeons. If you can build a small pigeon loft it will save you some money. You are going to go through lots of birds, (50 - 100) depending on the level of training you are after.

My suggestion is pick a training method, and make a plan,
figure out where you are going to get birds to train with, (buy, trap, get homers, .....)
Get a check cord to start with, and a remote launcher (s) if you can afford them.
If there is a bird dog club around, that could also be a big help.

Training a dog is a lot of fun. The dog is going to do some things great one day, and then may be clueless the next.
At a year old you are starting a little later than most, but you can still have a great dog, it just takes some time,..... and birds.
Steve

zoey'sonlyhope
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by zoey'sonlyhope » Sun May 13, 2012 2:37 pm

Thanks Steve, She has alot of stuff down, she is really good with whoa and all the basic stuff, she finds dead pigeons that i drag for her up to 100 yds away. so she does have some stuff done but i am just now starting on birds like you said, i think its just going to take a little bit, she loves birds she is getting to the point whenever we go to the field she is looking for them, as soon as she sees one you might as well let her go for a good ten minutes because she is so excited you cant get her attention. idk what prey drive could be other than loving being around birds and loving chasing them. am i right?

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by SetterNut » Sun May 13, 2012 4:03 pm

Sounds like she has the prey drive to make a good birddog. That is the one thing you need to have in a young dog. Everyone makes some mistakes now and then during training, and that prey drive is your insurance policy. And if the dog doesn't get excited about birds, you have a problem that may not be fixable.

Be patient and fair with the dog. You have to show them what you want several times.

But it is pretty cool when they get it :D
Steve

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by zoey'sonlyhope » Sun May 13, 2012 4:20 pm

im excited, the things that she has down are exciting, and its not even the exciting stuff yet, it makes it fun to train because she loves to do it.
thanks again!
adam

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by DonF » Sun May 13, 2012 8:50 pm

Quit dragging dead pigeons for her. Good way to teach her to find cripples but what you are doing is teaching her to0 scent a bird and go catch it. The idea at this point is top teach her she can't catch them.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by zoey'sonlyhope » Sun May 13, 2012 9:20 pm

Don,
Good point, but i think we still need to work on that though, so should i put the live birds on hold for a bit? until she is done with drags?
thanks
Adam

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by rinker » Mon May 14, 2012 8:00 am

You will save yourself, and your dog, an enormous amount of frustration if you find an experienced trainer to help you get started. Have you checked to see if there are any clubs in your area?

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by DonF » Mon May 14, 2012 8:53 am

zoey'sonlyhope wrote:Don,
Good point, but i think we still need to work on that though, so should i put the live birds on hold for a bit? until she is done with drags?
thanks
Adam
I think you said she's a year old? Don't put the birds on hold butset it up so she can't get to them. That means use a check cord to take her to the birds and use a friend to flush while you restrain her. Or, use remote traps. Using traps riegt she'll start pointing before you know it, but, do not give her just a moment to see if she'll flush the bird. She shows she scents the bird, you pop the bird right away. Using the check cord, soon as she shows she's found the bird, stop her right there. Best way, if you come from either side is to make a circle around to the back of her. Keep the check cord tight. Once your around back, work your way hand over hand to her and ther have your helper flush the bird. If you go straight to her from the side you'll allow her to get much closer before you can get to her. You need to stop her. Get down on your knees and hold her collar gently in one hand and put the other over her back where you can quickly get her under the flanks. When she jumps around pick up on the collar a bit then down and at the same time lift her back end off the ground. Do that with her until she stands still and then have your helper go to flust the bird. If she start's in moving again your helper needs to stop and you needs to rock her again untill she's still, then the helper goes on. Have the helper stop aqnd rock her as many times as you need to keep her still. She only see's the bird if she's still.
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by Sharon » Mon May 14, 2012 10:59 am

zoey'sonlyhope wrote:Don,
Good point, but i think we still need to work on that though, so should i put the live birds on hold for a bit? until she is done with drags?
thanks
Adam
"Quit dragging dead pigeons for her. Good way to teach her to find cripples but what you are doing is teaching her to0 scent a bird and go catch it. The idea at this point is top teach her she can't catch them." DonF


Forget the drags.
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by pinebrookkennel » Mon May 14, 2012 1:37 pm

I'm no expert here but don't drag dead birds on the ground. Number one thing you want is the head up
Checking the wind for scent.
Also, you don't need a lot of homers, we are traning our dog with six and counting. You only need a few homers
Until there steady then you can move to shooters, or quail.
Make no distinction between practice and combat !
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by JIM K » Mon May 14, 2012 2:22 pm

pinebrookkennel wrote:I'm no expert here but don't drag dead birds on the ground. Number one thing you want is the head up
Checking the wind for scent.
Also, you don't need a lot of homers, we are traning our dog with six and counting. You only need a few homers
Until there steady then you can move to shooters, or quail.
i stopped training my labs that way because they will become ANT EATERS :lol: nose stuck to ground hunting birds.you want head up in air not stuck to ground.
now, on VD dogs i have no experience.

i agree with you. i dont use HOMERS. i bought trap and can catch 10 easy daily if i want.
i never keep birds and retrapp them if i want.
trap was 49 dollars .i never use QUAIL. they dont fly away.i want a bird that LEAVES after i use them.
i saw dogs ruined by using quail ,the dogs caught them.they became FLUSHERS not pointers.

only what isaw over years but i always had LABS that flushed and only toby POINTS or stands as said .

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by 4dabirds » Mon May 14, 2012 5:08 pm

https://www.georgehickox.com/articles/w ... [1].kp.pdf This may be a good place for you to start with your dog. You are trying to go straight to high school with a dog that is in kindergarten. You say the dog is whoa trained , if the dog will not stop under distraction it is not whoa trained. This may sound a little harsh but it is a level of expectation you should be striving for, less will give you a dog that is confused and apprehensive. You should look into a proven training plan where each step of training is reliant on the dog being successful at the previous step. If the dog has not had a proper introduction to birds and is actively seeking them out on his own , it is a little premature to introduce birds in launcher. The launcher carries scent from you as well as its own scent and creates a scenario that becomes specific to the launcher training. This specificity is training your dog to hunt birds in the launcher. Your dog will learn to hunt on his own in due time. What the launcher is good for is to establish a controlled environment to help the dog grasp nuances of training in the prescence of a bird. An example of this is: You have taught your dog to whoa on a barrel, since dogs are place oriented and the dog already associates the barrel with the whoa command , you have the dog jump on the barrel when the dog hits the barrel you launch a bird. The dog will associate standing still on the barrel with producing a bird for the dog. This is one example of a way to use a launcher with in a training program. The way you are trying to use the launcher now with out the dog having other associations made first in the yard ,relies in the dog making the same association that you expect, when in fact the dog may make the association that when he smells scent a bird is produced and it is game on for chasing. He may start to point or may decide chasing is more fun. This is not a training program, this is lets see what happens and hope for the best. It would also rely on you having great timing as well as strong flying birds that he can not catch. As well as a dog with great genetics. If all the aspects of this type of training were not perfect the great genetics may be wasted. A lot of people on here recommend perfect start perfect finish I have not seen this video but I have heard good things about it. I would recommend George Hickoxs' New beginnings dvd. Either way videos are only a start in the game and very cheap relative to what they offer. Get used to spending money on this stuff if you want to have a good hunting companion. Getting some hands on with a pro is well worth it if you can afford it as well.

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by zoey'sonlyhope » Mon May 14, 2012 7:36 pm

Ok thanks again, she was not whao trained on a barrel we just used a pinch collar and a slap on the chest, every she would move we would pick her up and put her back, but that was a good example, i understand what your saying, i will try to think of something to associate that with for her. sounds like i need to do a little longer intro, i just took her out tonight and let her watch me throw a few birds then worked her cross wind and when she went towards the bird walked up slowly with cord taunt and had the wife walk in and pick up the pigeon while i held her and had her do the whole "bird boy" thing and made her stand and watch, only two birds for today, will wait till next week for any more
Thanks guys
Adam

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by Pappy » Mon May 14, 2012 9:43 pm

Adam I have read your subject on training your dog on birds. First I have train several dogs myself. Some of my dogs had turn out great and some others not as good as I would of like them. But let me give you a little advise. If you put in the time your dog will turn out ok. I have made some major mistakes and my dog still turn out to be a great dog. I had one Britney and all he wanted was to chase the birds. In time he figured it out. Sometimes during my training I used very few birds and other times more, it really didn't make a difference. My first dog was trained on very few birds and he turned out to be my best dog. I will never be able to replace him. One thing that I could tell you is that during the hunting season is where your dog will get his most experiences on birds. The more you take your dog out during the hunting season the better he will get. All of this advise on training is good and everyone has there advise. Be patiences and be consistent. From what I read your dog seems to be doing ok. Just take him out and hunt him this season as much as you can. He will turn out fine.
Good Luck

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by zoey'sonlyhope » Mon May 14, 2012 10:15 pm

Alright thanks, its nice to get so much great advice. and yea we plan on going hunting a TON this year.
Thanks again everyone
Adam

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by pinebrookkennel » Tue May 15, 2012 6:07 am

Jim
I agree with you about quail not flying well and teaching the dog bad habits. The point I was making was after you have the dog steady
You can use quail as shooters. They don't fly and land fifty yards out, there a pillow of feathers @ thirty feet and you
Get some gun work in also!!
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by ToddW7 » Tue May 15, 2012 12:21 pm

I understand on the launchers you should lead the dog in on a check cord across the scent and as soon as the dog has scent, then launch the bird when the dog makes any movement. I have done this and after about 15 bird experiences over several sessions, my dog is immediately pointing and holding. How long should I let the dog stand there? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 2 minutes? more? I am now at the point where I try to walk in front of the dog while she is on point, but she usually has some movement after she hears or sees me move, and again at the first sign of movement I launch the bird. So once the dog is holding point, what next? Extending the time or adding distractions like attempting to walk in front of the dog?

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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by Wildweeds » Tue May 15, 2012 9:27 pm

Forget the launchers too IMO,Launchers are great tools for teaching stop to flush and backing and that is it.Dogs should hunt birds not launchers.I had a couple of old guys teach me the age old game of point em or knock em and a great way to plant pigeons so that they are up and alert but won't flush unless pushed by the dog.I've seen more than one dog that was a launcher hunter.What one of those old guys taught me is this "The cheapest part about training a bird dog is what people are the cheapest about.................. birds,they got money for e-collars,launchers,pop up electronic backing dogs,tracking collars and then they go cheap on the birds trying to recycle with hoses and cardboard squares,poor flyers that were a "Deal" when in all reality if they'd just used a checkcord and patience and spent all the electronics money on birds .................... would be much farther ahead"

JIM K
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by JIM K » Tue May 15, 2012 10:15 pm

Wildweeds wrote:Forget the launchers too IMO,Launchers are great tools for teaching stop to flush and backing and that is it.Dogs should hunt birds not launchers.I had a couple of old guys teach me the age old game of point em or knock em and a great way to plant pigeons so that they are up and alert but won't flush unless pushed by the dog.I've seen more than one dog that was a launcher hunter.What one of those old guys taught me is this "The cheapest part about training a bird dog is what people are the cheapest about.................. birds,they got money for e-collars,launchers,pop up electronic backing dogs,tracking collars and then they go cheap on the birds trying to recycle with hoses and cardboard squares,poor flyers that were a "Deal" when in all reality if they'd just used a checkcord and patience and spent all the electronics money on birds .................... would be much farther ahead"
i dont spend money on too many things/dont use e-collar but i do like beeper collars on point ones .
i do like launchers.real nice way to shoot pigeon over p[up too. but i got my launchers for 70 dollars .if more i most likely would have just used a cage on ground with string,.
you are right,after about 20 pigeons in training i dont use pigeons no more and just go hunting for grouse here in pa.
thats it.

best thing i ever owned was my pigeon trap.49 dollars.i take birds to different location each time to release on toby when he was pup.

i get fresh birds each week and release them .

but now cage sits in garage.
soooooooo,berst thing i have owned is tobys beeper collar ,not e-collar just beeper to find him but usually i dont need it as he hunts close to me.

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pinebrookkennel
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by pinebrookkennel » Wed May 16, 2012 11:02 am

Todd
After you dog is holding point long enough for you to find them, walk around them kick the grass do jumping jacks
Flips whatever you need to in front of them to get the birds in the air without them flinching. Then you have to connect the
Dots that the ONLY way the dog get a bird in its mouth is by YOU flushing and shooting it. So if it takes you 10
min. To catch up to them on point or 10 sec. Its all the same. They don't move until you let them @ the
Flush or the shot
Find the bird, hold point unil I get there, I flush the bird, you find dead bird and bring back. :D. Seem so
Simple. If we could only explain it to them!
Make no distinction between practice and combat !
Miyamoto Musashi.
Knowledge, once gained can never be stolen or repossessed.
Jered

ToddW7
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by ToddW7 » Thu May 17, 2012 8:06 am

Thanks Jered.

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Sharon
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by Sharon » Thu May 17, 2012 5:10 pm

Wildweeds wrote:Forget the launchers too IMO,Launchers are great tools for teaching stop to flush and backing and that is it.Dogs should hunt birds not launchers.I had a couple of old guys teach me the age old game of point em or knock em and a great way to plant pigeons so that they are up and alert but won't flush unless pushed by the dog.I've seen more than one dog that was a launcher hunter.What one of those old guys taught me is this "The cheapest part about training a bird dog is what people are the cheapest about.................. birds,they got money for e-collars,launchers,pop up electronic backing dogs,tracking collars and then they go cheap on the birds trying to recycle with hoses and cardboard squares,poor flyers that were a "Deal" when in all reality if they'd just used a checkcord and patience and spent all the electronics money on birds .................... would be much farther ahead"

Well said. Exactly what i would have said. :)
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4dabirds
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Re: launcher help PLEASE

Post by 4dabirds » Thu May 17, 2012 7:18 pm

Hunting dogs teach themselves to hunt. They are hard wired to do this . When a dog teaches itself to hunt the motivation is to catch the bird. If dogs did not think they could catch the birds, they would use there energy in a more efficient way. The dog wants the bird and we want the dog to just point the bird. It is our job as the trainer to teach the dog that stopping its stalk is beneficial to the dog. The dog believes in the beginning stalking the bird is beneficial to the dog. Launchers when properly used can be a great tool to teach the dog that pointing is beneficial to the dog. There are many ways to incorporate launchers into a training program that has been designed to make the process easier for the dog to understand that pointing is beneficial to the dog. I think one of the biggest problems with launchers is that people tend to use them for the bird the dog is hunting. If the launcher is placed beyond a bird that is planted as the scent bird, the dog will not have the launcher to key off but he bird will still go up in the air. I have written one example of a way to use launchers to steady a dog in the post "steady seven year old gsp". There are many many other great ways to use launchers to teach a dog specific behaviors once the dog has come into contact with a bird. These are not meant to teach the dog to hunt, as I said previously the dog will do that on its own, they are to get compliance to behaviors that we as trainers find desirable . If you want to use a method that allows the dog to hunt on its own and hope for the best then launchers may not be for you, but if you want to follow a training program that allows the trainer to guarantee the outcome in a controlled environment , they are indispensable , especially if you have limited resources for wild birds .

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