need help building range/search

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duckdozer
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need help building range/search

Post by duckdozer » Mon May 21, 2012 7:31 am

Guys I just got done running my WPG in her first NAVHDA Natural Ability test and she did great except for the search/desire part of it. I might add it was HOT and we were in thick nasty stuff that she had never been in. She was only hunting about 20 yds and this isnt normal for her. She did get on a scent and get birdy only to have the judge fire the gunshy'dness shot and flushed the bird she was working, she didnt see it flush. Had she seen it she would have scored great because after bird contact she is an absolute animal. How do I get her to become an animal right out of the gate all the time? I know that exposure is the key but I really dont have access to birds right now and there isnt much wild ones around me thanks to OOSRs raping and pillaging during season. I have read to go out with another person and start about 50 yds apart and let her run back and forth to us for treats and encouragment, that it will help build confidence in her. What else might you guys have to add. She scored a 75 and would have gotten at least a prize 2 had she gotten average scores in the search/desire part of it but unfortuately one affects the other and so did the heat and terrain. Let me know if there is a better way to do it, as I kinda need to get this done before it gets too hot here.

thanks in advance,
Jerrod

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pinebrookkennel
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Re: need help building range/search

Post by pinebrookkennel » Mon May 21, 2012 11:36 am

What is the age of the dog?
Make no distinction between practice and combat !
Miyamoto Musashi.
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cmc274
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Re: need help building range/search

Post by cmc274 » Mon May 21, 2012 11:48 am

Jerrod,

I think the best thing would be to find a bird supplier- wild pigeons, quail, chukar, whatever. Shipping, driving, begging, whatever it takes to get birds. The birds will bring out your dog's natural desire. Try to plant them in a manner she cannot catch them, walk around with her, let her find him them, point them, flush them, whatever. She should gain independence and desire. Not that you are guilty, but no need to tell the dog to 'hunt em up', or 'find them' or any such thing

duckdozer
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Re: need help building range/search

Post by duckdozer » Mon May 21, 2012 12:27 pm

pinebrookkennel wrote:What is the age of the dog?
Sorry I forgot that she is 11months, and I do tell her to hunt the up, because she needs to know when the time OS the right time as I don't always want her hunting upland, she will be a primarily a waterfowl dog.

ddshine
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Re: need help building range/search

Post by ddshine » Mon May 21, 2012 12:49 pm

WILD BIRDS
http://www.monkeyshinekennels.com
TRAIN...DON'T COMPLAIN.

duckdozer
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Re: need help building range/search

Post by duckdozer » Mon May 21, 2012 1:53 pm

Would not be asking questions on here if there were wild birds around my area. I would have found them already, and according to your post I wouldn't be having this problem because we would have found wild birds.

Georgia Boy
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Re: need help building range/search

Post by Georgia Boy » Mon May 21, 2012 3:39 pm

At nearly a year old, unless your dog is extremely slow to mature or has had very little exposure your search is probably about as good as its going to get. Take the dog out and get it on game. Keep your mouth shut, only talk to it if its in danger or time to load up. Let the dog devlop its independance and for sure dont be calling it to you and giving it treats over and over in the field. Thats what I would do.
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Re: need help building range/search

Post by Trekmoor » Mon May 21, 2012 3:56 pm

I've been training a H.V. pup that is show bred for more than 6 months. She too lacks range and pace . She is now 15 months and has improved considerably but only if there is plenty of game scent present. She will now hunt out at a decent pace to well over a hundred yards but I doubt if she will ever match the Brits or the GSP's I've trained that would do those sort of distances long before they were a year old.
To get her to the stage she has reached I took her out and let her hunt for and chase wild birds just as much as I possibly could. As she did this I kept my mouth shut and my hands and my whistle in my pocket . Doing this has increased her hunt desire to acceptable standards for the majority of hunters but she will never make a field trial dog.

Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

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pinebrookkennel
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Re: need help building range/search

Post by pinebrookkennel » Mon May 21, 2012 8:17 pm

Jerrod
Had the same problem with my young setter. We ran the same feild every day to build his confidence then we pushed
The launchers out farther every other day. In a few short trips the dog was burning the ground between us. On the advice
Of others on the site we stoped all other training until we got range issue worked out.
Also if you can take the cord off the dog and let them run, give him a drink when he comes in other than that just don't
Say a word and move slow. If its a attachment thing, if he knows were you are and were to come back to he will roll out
A little more.
Good luck
Make no distinction between practice and combat !
Miyamoto Musashi.
Knowledge, once gained can never be stolen or repossessed.
Jered

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AzDoggin
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Re: need help building range/search

Post by AzDoggin » Mon May 21, 2012 8:24 pm

Jerrod, Hickox talks about adjusting the distance to birds in launchers to influence the dog to range. So keep birds just beyond his range and get him reaching out some -- then next time a bird just further, and just further. The type of cover makes a difference, too. Get into some lighter, shorter stuff, keep your yap shut, and let that boy roll.

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Ruffshooter
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Re: need help building range/search

Post by Ruffshooter » Tue May 22, 2012 6:09 am

Griff do have a tendancy to be slow close workers. Not all but many. Heat can slow them down too. Also many times want the dog to do well in the test so one has a tendancy to push the dog when it is not ready for pressure. It is a natural ability test and really one should only introduce the test items/parts to the dog then let it be. (Remeber it is only one day in the life of the dog and does not truly show how the dog will be in its life.) I have a GSP that failed her NA, later that year a Prize 1 UT, then VC, 2 years later.) (I have another GSP that also failed in the water part, she is like a duck in water but that day she just dubbed around distracted by the other smells. She also is a great dog headed for very good things.)

The biggest thing that slows them down is the owner/handler talking too much. In other words trying to encourage the dog to move out or come here trying to get hte dog down wind of the bird etc. Don't know if that is you, but, in general. One is better off through most of its first months to just let the dog have its head, other than basic obedience. (The dogs know the difference in types of birds i.e. ducks and upland. They work it out as they hunt. You do not need to tell the dog what it knows. Experience will also tell the dog. Your gear, location, etc.

As mentioned, and you have mentioned you have no real access to them is birds. Just planting them out further etc.
For me had a Brit that I had a range issue. She had all kinds of desire and ran like the dikens but just not more than 50 yards. So I took a couple birds three times a week for three weeks to the same place, planted them in the same place each time so when she got to the field she would run out the 100 yards and 200 yards. The first couple times I had to walk out with her but soon she was making a bee line for those areas.

Then after that we moved to a different field where the first couple times I did the same she started short and I walked out with her then she got it. Now I always plant her birds out far not the same places and she has her range from the 50 to 100 sometime a bit more but mostly 50 to 100yards.

The other thing is start going for field and woods walks off lead, let the dog explore and be independent. Don't talk to the dog let them learn.

The birds thing is the best way to get them to range. But maybe playing the here game at distance will help. Not sure never did that.

Good luck.
Rick
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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AzDoggin
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Re: need help building range/search

Post by AzDoggin » Tue May 22, 2012 7:36 am

That's good stuff, Rick.

I think it was Ben O. Williams (maybe Delmar Smith too) that would sing as he walked along letting the dogs run. The dogs were able to hear "boss" and were more secure knowing where he was, so could stretch it out more. Never calling in the dog, just singing...

Heck, the way I sing, my dog would be in the next county trying to escape the gawd-awful racket :oops: :lol:

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Ruffshooter
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Re: need help building range/search

Post by Ruffshooter » Tue May 22, 2012 8:40 am

AzDoggin wrote: Heck, the way I sing, my dog would be in the next county trying to escape the gawd-awful racket :oops: :lol:
Maybe you could start a business to stretch the dogs out with your singing. I could be your VP. :mrgreen:

I remember the first time I heard and Mercy my GSP heard a lady (I use the term Loosely) started singing, Scared me out of my drawers as she was right beside me. And made Mercy stop in her tracks and look back at me. It took three times before she figured out it was just some other loud mouth. :wink:
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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