fetching troubles

[paulaplatt]

I have a 4 month old english springer spaniel pup who I'm having difficulty getting her to bring whatever was tossed directly back to me. She did really well for a long time, and all the sudden she will veer to one side of me, or drop the dummy short. Whenever I use a wing taped to a canvas dummy she a lot of the time will stop and chew on it. This is my first dog, and I'm kind of stuck! I don't want to scold her if it will scare her in some way from fetching, but don't know what to do! Help/tips for these problems would be greatly appreciated!

[Will]

Now she is having fun with you...playing "the game". I would put her on a check chord and toss her dummy out a short distance, then kind of guide her back with the CC. When she gets there praise her up real big but don't take the dummy from her right away. She'll get the idea...but she is just a puppy after all. This is normal. I also wouldn't do more than 3-5 tosses in any play session with her. This is just conditioning her to do what you want through praise....not really training in my opinion. Keep it fun for her but don't chase her or tug of war on it with her.

[DonF]

Toss it one time with her on a check cord and be sure she come's back to you with it. If she drops it on the way back, reel her in and go pick up the dummy and put it away. Once she does get back to you with it, throw it one more time and put it away no matter what happen's. Get it done right a couple times and leave her wanting. Shee's just at an age where she's trying out her independence.

[Francois P vd Walt]

Toss it one time with her on a check cord and be sure she come's back to you with it. If she drops it on the way back, reel her in and go pick up the dummy and put it away. Once she does get back to you with it, throw it one more time and put it away no matter what happen's. Get it done right a couple times and leave her wanting. Shee's just at an age where she's trying out her independence.

+1 Do not over do it keep it fun for now !

[4dabirds]

Conditioning to do what you want through praise is not only training but The best kind of training. Keep in mind that every repetition you allow is training the dog in a behavior that you may not want. These learned behaviors will be more difficult to correct using force fetch causing the dog to receive more pressure in the long run. Try to avoid training behaviors you have no control of the outcome for. The reason force retrieve works is it allows you to break down into increments the complex behavior retrieving is, and allows you to have a mechanism to control it through the process and afterword. The previous advice to keep it to a minimum is good , you should always quit before the dog fails to respond perfectly . If the dog is not responding perfectly you might want to consider using clicker training to train the retrieve in small increments as it would be done in force retrieve. Good luck

[Deuce]

All great advice here. I found that my pup was veering to the side when I was taking the dummy too quickly. It made her want to play a bit of keep away, not full blown obviously, but it was her way of holding her prize a little longer.

To add a question of my own, my pup sometimes drops the dummy short (honestly real short, say 2") and I don't want to condition her to do that. When she returns to hand I praise her more than normal and jackpot her treats. Anything else I can do to help condition her to hold the dummy until she's all the way to me?

[4dabirds]

She could be dumping to get the treat sooner. Using a clicker to mark behavior allows you to treat or praise the dog on your schedule. Dogs will key on your timing and anticipate the ending of the lesson. With the clicker you can lengthen the time it takes to mark the behavior . You may be able to just put it back in and make the dog hold it until you take it . Never let the dog fail and accept it. She may just need to be shown what you want.

[rinker]

When the pup picks up the dummy and starts to return to you, walk in the opposite direction, maybe even jog a few steps. Make the pup chase you.

[DonF]

Going backward does help. So does reaching out and knocking the dummy away. Don't pick it up just knock it away till the pup come's to with it. I use both methods.

[birddogger]

All good advise.....That is if she were older.....Let her mature a little bit, she is just a baby and too young for training.

Charlie

[paulaplatt]

Thanks for the advice! I will try this! A lot of comments were about my pup being pretty young yet...which leads to another question about force fetching. About what age are ESS usually doing this and how do you know when they are ready? A few weeks ago she was doing so well I was about to give her a pigeon and perhaps start with the force fetching but will put that on hold since the back tracking that has been happening. I really appreciate the quick responses from everyone on this website..so glad I decided to join!

[donnie_19]

Sounds like you are overdoing it. Back off an let her be a pup.

[Trekmoor]

I think what I would do is this.... when the pup comes to you still holding the dummy ,you should be either sitting low to the ground or crouched. Do not accept the dummy , accept the pup. By this I mean praise the pup close in to your chest while making no attempt to take the dummy from it as long as it holds it. If the pup drops the dummy, stand up ----game has ended. No correction , just - game has ended. Usually what happens is that the pup wants the praise and the game to continue and so it continues to hold the dummy.
Take the dummy from the pup gently and only after a bit of praising and cuddling close in to your chest.

Bill T.

[Ruffshooter]

Do not FF any pup at 4 months 5 months, 6 months. They need to have their adult teeth. They need to be ready mentally. Join a spaniel club. They will help guide you. FF on a pointing dog is a little different in timing of when to start( (than flushing and retrievers.))

I would do as Trekmoor and the others have said in conditioning the dogs behavior to always come to you.

Now lets see a pic of the little bugger.
Rick

[Ms. Cage]

Do not FF any pup at 4 months 5 months, 6 months. They need to have their adult teeth. They need to be ready mentally. Join a spaniel club. They will help guide you. FF on a pointing dog is a little different in timing of when to start.

+1 We like to force fetch between 10 and 14 months old depending on mental readiness.

[paulaplatt]

Alright gang, it has been a couple months and now she is 6 months...and I still have her dropping the dummy short. She will bring it to hand half the time, and I give her lots of praise, and keep the sessions short, but then the next session she will drop it like 3 feet in front of me. No matter how much I point and try to coax her to go back and get it, she won't. I then proceed to pick up the dummy and offer her no praise and end that session. My boyfriend has used treats with her at times, and she seems to bring it back most of the time then, but I do not really want to get her into the habit of expecting them either...I want praise to be her treat! The running backwards doesn't seem to help much..When I put her on a check cord she gets distracted by the cord and insists on chewing on it instead of retrieving..my dad thinks she may be in her adolescent stage, but yet he had an ESS hunting by the age of 6-7 months! I guess I'm a bit frustrated and wish I knew a quick cure all for her so I can continue with some pigeons (which I attempted twice when she was doing well, but she insisted on playing with them instead of bringing them back) Help!