Labs and Pigeons

[weekendwarrior]

Starting some pigeon work. Question is how to train once he gets scent? Am I training to mark the bird with a "sit" and then command the flush, or should I just let him flush him out and have him steady once it flushes?

[Brittguy]

the dog usually flushes the bird and then sits. I think it will be hard unless you use launchers. Somebody expirenced with flushing dogs will be able to help.

[Sharon]

Starting some pigeon work. Question is how to train once he gets scent? Am I training to mark the bird with a "sit" and then command the flush, or should I just let him flush him out and have him steady once it flushes?

You need a plan.The link is a start but you need a complete plan. I'm sure some others can suggest a good package.
(Also keep your eye open for a mentor/club.)

http://www.gameandfishmag.com/2010/10/0 ... aa056203a/

How old is the dog?

[weekendwarrior]

I am using remote launchers. I'm using Evan Graham DVD's for all the retrieve things, but need some guidance on how to employ the pigeon/launcher training.
Thanks in advance,
Paul

[weekendwarrior]

He is 8 months. Has good obedience with sit/stay, heel, here, etc. Conditioned for whistle come and stay commands, and am working on baseball retriever drills. He's finding scented dummies, etc.

[DonF]

I can't imagine how remote lancher's could beuch benifit with a lab. You could set them off a ways with either a bumper or dead bird in them and launch that to get them marking a fall and get going to it. If what you want is a flushing dog the remote's still wouldn't work for me. I would not want to keep the bird away from the dog but rather find it and get it and back to me. You pop birds out of a launcher as somef us to for pointing dogs and you'll have an excellent chance of teaching your dog to blink. a hesitation before the flush. Could allow a game bird time to run out on the dog. You should want your dog forceing the issue with the bird and put it in the air. Nothing better than a dog that believes it can catch them.

[weekendwarrior]

That is interesting. I recently took my dog to a local trainer who trains pointing dogs. Left him there for 3 weeks (out of 6 weeks supposedly to train him) and by the 3rd week, he was still "getting him used to birds" supposedly every day. Saw no training progress taking place, and then when I showed up on his Saturday class with the owners, my dog was brought out and he used him on launchers exclusively. No commands, no check cord, just let him walk around and hopefully stumble on a bird in a launcher.

I could tell he wasnt much of a lab trainer, because not one fundemental had been worked on.

Hence why I bought Evan Graham's DVD's and found this forum. First time trainer, for sure, and really enjoying it.

So I'm assuming from your post, are not typically a lab training tool? I hope not, because I am the proud owner of two remote launchers now.

[bumper52]

For me, training my labs with pigeons is a step by step process:
1. Introduction to wings (let the pup to chase around a wing and catch it....increase the difficulty to build up the intensity
2. Introduction to live bird (take a pigeon and duct tape wings...toss in yard...let pup go crazy......should have a check cord on the pup
3. Take duct taped bird and plant in fairly sparse cover (get the pup and tell him to find the bird) they will catch on real quick
4. Back to the yard (take wing clipped pigeon....make sure the bird can walk) Hold pup and let him watch the bird walk around for 15-30 seconds or so...release the pup
5. Take wing clipped bird and place in cover...tell pup to find the bird....you can really start to see the pup learning to use his nose when the pigeon walks quite a distance from where you set it.....make sure your are insuring success, yet keep making it more challenging
6. In steps 4 and 5, I will introduce the blank gun
7. Take pigeon capable of flying and dizzy slightly...place in cover and let dog find....if dog catches it that's ok...if bird flies away that's ok as well (the objective is we are getting closer and closer to a real hunting situation) I let my pups chase birds through their first hunting season.
8. Same as 7, except when bird flushes, shoot it. I will intentionally miss a few as well because the pup needs to learn they are not going to get to retrieve every bird flushed.

Hope this helps some.....After the first year of hunting, I then teach steady to wing and shot. I want my labs flushing very aggressively and then standing (to better watch and mark flushed birds) They hear the shot, they will sit. Then give command to retrieve.....because I have allowed them to chase birds in their early training, that is the only problem I have with teaching steady to wing and shot....they want to chase. I have a helper with a check cord on the dog and they catch on very quickly. I guess I should have mentioned why I let them chase: I want them bird crazy; everything associated with birds should be fun. When they are pups, it needs to be fun. For the more serious training down the road, I have found it easier to make corrections that are bird related without dampening their enthusiasm because a solid foundation has been built. I personally do not use launchers anymore.

[Waterdogs1]

We use to use bird launchers a bunch teachung are labs to sit to flush. Our dogs were already Force fetched,Collar conditioned to sit in the whistle doing single marks with birds and introduced to the gun correctly and then we would take them to the field and teach them their upland work. I would first plant clipped wings in a quatering pattern and tell them to hunt it up and let them find the cip wings and retrieve them to me. After a few times doing that they dog the hunting figured out and I would love to other spots and plant birds. When they were hunting hard and finding bird I would then use the launchers and launch the birds and make the sit by using a sit whistle. Depending on the dog I would maybe do three or four sit to flushes and at the end of the field shoot them one. I really do not worry to much about the sit to flush anymore. It is great I guess if you are hunting pen raised birds but if I have a dog that will sit on a whistle that is good enough. I think starting to tech them to hunt early is great before you get into the obedience to much with your retriever and then work in tat obedience.

[weekendwarrior]

For me, training my labs with pigeons is a step by step process:
1. Introduction to wings (let the pup to chase around a wing and catch it....increase the difficulty to build up the intensity
2. Introduction to live bird (take a pigeon and duct tape wings...toss in yard...let pup go crazy......should have a check cord on the pup
3. Take duct taped bird and plant in fairly sparse cover (get the pup and tell him to find the bird) they will catch on real quick
4. Back to the yard (take wing clipped pigeon....make sure the bird can walk) Hold pup and let him watch the bird walk around for 15-30 seconds or so...release the pup
5. Take wing clipped bird and place in cover...tell pup to find the bird....you can really start to see the pup learning to use his nose when the pigeon walks quite a distance from where you set it.....make sure your are insuring success, yet keep making it more challenging
6. In steps 4 and 5, I will introduce the blank gun
7. Take pigeon capable of flying and dizzy slightly...place in cover and let dog find....if dog catches it that's ok...if bird flies away that's ok as well (the objective is we are getting closer and closer to a real hunting situation) I let my pups chase birds through their first hunting season.
8. Same as 7, except when bird flushes, shoot it. I will intentionally miss a few as well because the pup needs to learn they are not going to get to retrieve every bird flushed.

Hope this helps some.....After the first year of hunting, I then teach steady to wing and shot. I want my labs flushing very aggressively and then standing (to better watch and mark flushed birds) They hear the shot, they will sit. Then give command to retrieve.....because I have allowed them to chase birds in their early training, that is the only problem I have with teaching steady to wing and shot....they want to chase. I have a helper with a check cord on the dog and they catch on very quickly. I guess I should have mentioned why I let them chase: I want them bird crazy; everything associated with birds should be fun. When they are pups, it needs to be fun. For the more serious training down the road, I have found it easier to make corrections that are bird related without dampening their enthusiasm because a solid foundation has been built. I personally do not use launchers anymore.

Yes this helps immensely. Thanks very much! I will still use the launchers now that I have them, and maybe have them available for friends with GSPs as well.