springer getting out of hand!!!!!

[paul purchase]

hi everyone, i hope you can help! i have a six month old springer she is a lovely dog and coming on very well until recently. she is a brilliant retriever will not give up looking till she finds what i have throw her, she retrieves in water, she has been shooting quite a few times (clay) and is very steady around a gun. i take her out every nite training, normally she is faultless does everything i ask of her & loves doing it. the last few weeks i feel i am loosing her, she just runs off & seems to do what she likes, not listening to my commands at all running threw bushes & totally ignoring me until she is ready to come back usually 1-2 mins. when she comes back i try to ignore her not scold her but i am at my wits end with her as she seems to be getting worse by the day.....any ideas would be very welcome indeed.. thanks paul

[dakotashooter2]

Get her back on the check cord and if you have an e collar add that to the mix. On my last two springers I didn't really have to shock them. The collar beeper seemed to get their attention enough to get some control and worked as a callback. I would also ask if you are giving her some play time. I usually let mine run a bit before trying any training. They get wound up tighter than a spring.. I just got a 6 month old from a kennel. Basically I'm starting from base 1 with a 6 month old dog and this one seems a little skittish besides so I'm having to work slower than normal.

[EvanG]

Do you plan to fully train this dog? If so, this would be a fine time to begin formal Basics.

The components of Basics in order

1) “Here”
2) “Heel & Sit”
3) “Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4) “Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”, e-collar conditioning to “Fetch”
5) Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile
6) 3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands “Back”
7) Mini tee; includes collar conditioning to all basic commands, transferring to the go, stop, cast functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee. Also includes De-bolting
8 ) Single tee
9) Double tee
10) Water force, Water tee with Swim-by

Feel free to ask any questions you like.

EvanG

[Sharon]

hi everyone, i hope you can help! i have a six month old springer she is a lovely dog and coming on very well until recently. she is a brilliant retriever will not give up looking till she finds what i have throw her, she retrieves in water, she has been shooting quite a few times (clay) and is very steady around a gun. i take her out every nite training, normally she is faultless does everything i ask of her & loves doing it. the last few weeks i feel i am loosing her, she just runs off & seems to do what she likes, not listening to my commands at all running threw bushes & totally ignoring me until she is ready to come back usually 1-2 mins. when she comes back i try to ignore her not scold her but i am at my wits end with her as she seems to be getting worse by the day.....any ideas would be very welcome indeed.. thanks paul

She's reached adolescence . Actually I'd be more worried if she was totally compliant. Confidence and independence is a bonus, BUT you need a plan . as Evan Graham has pointed.You could PM Evan for a suggestion.

[AzDoggin]

Ah - the joys of adolescence!!

If you have a beautiful baby girl for a daughter...when she reaches about 14...you'll get the same treatment from her, too! The difference is, there is no e-collar approved for use on human children. Good luck.

(sounds to me like the normal development of a very good dog. congrats!)

Follow EvanG's advice with your dog. It's the equivalent of regular family "come to Jesus" meetings with your daughter.

[huntnfmly]

As said earlier back to the check cord until she understands the commands better my Springer at that age was dragging his CC until he learned his manners she's just trying to see what she can get away with fix it now or it will only be harder to fix later good luck and most of all have fun
Jim

[Trekmoor]

Maybe I'm wrong but what I have noticed about the O.P.'s post and the replies to it is that they do not seem to mention hunting training ? The pup is doing what comes naturally and is hunting ..... trouble is she is self-hunting for lack of a bit of more structured hunting with her owner.

Give her some good reasons to do her hunting close to you, like scattered tennis balls to find near your feet or maybe even some scattered biscuits along the strip of ground you want her to hunt. Don't look for any kind of range ,keep her in close and searching near to you. It is very easy to have a spaniel hunt further out later in it's life but to begin with get it to think that all good things are to be found near you.

I never use a check-cord or an e-collar for this and I never need one either . Yet if the spaniel I'm training is a pup , not an adult, I find it very easy to keep them hunting and keep them "ticht in aboot ye" as they say here in Haggisland !
If I can I will post in part of a very poor quality video of me hunting a 7 month old springer pup in among a few rabbits and you will see that she does hunt and she is also steady to the rabbits she flushes ......provided I whistle stop her ! She has been hunted along tennis ball "lanes" prior to being taken among rabbits.


If you have been giving your pup structured hunting then please ignore my ramblings !

Bill T.

[Trekmoor]

A small part of a very amateurish video made last year. The pup is 7 months and has been in among rabbits once before for less than 5 minutes one week before this was filmed. I'm not troubling her much about pattern, I'm just trying to keep a nice flow of work going with no check cords or raised voice involved in keeping her in close and under some control.
Click on pic to play .... if the link works ! My apologies for the film quality , we were trying to see if a cheap camera worked. :roll:



Bill T.

[paul purchase]

you have all been very helpful, i think i am going to try an e collar can anyone recommend a good make that is not too expensive. once again thanks for your help, shes my first gun dog, i wont to train her myself , just dont want to get it wrong so any more tips would be welcomed.

[huntnfmly]

I know tri-tronics is very popular on this forum however I use a Sportdog field trainer its good quality and inexpensive. With the type of hunting you'll do with your spaniel it's a great choice it also comes with a DVD that will help you understand the use of the collar and some basic ob drills remember have fun

[Sharon]

you have all been very helpful, i think i am going to try an e collar can anyone recommend a good make that is not too expensive. once again thanks for your help, shes my first gun dog, i wont to train her myself , just dont want to get it wrong so any more tips would be welcomed.

Tritronics Sport G3 , BUT I've learned the hard way that this is one thing it is worth putting out big bucks for years of use - Dogtra 2500 ( e collar = beeper integrated).+
( Both can be Googled.)

[birdshot]

Paul look at Trekmoors post, and then pull up all of Trekmoors post and read those also. You don't need electronics with a springer. Get a spaniel whistle like an Acme 211and 1/2. The fact that your dog is out of control tells me you have a good one. Seek out a spaniel club in your area, clubs love new members.

[Trekmoor]

Thanks Birdshot . I sometimes feel like a voice in the wilderness on here . The U.S. ways of doing things can be very different and since I don't use most of them I just don't know how effective they are.

Bill T.

[birdshot]

Trekmoor, My mentor is Welsh. I used Keith Erlandson book on the first few. I may let mine out farther than trainers on your side of the pond, but pretty much agree with the philosophies of the crown. I used to do a lot of drills, but I think now it comes down to not letting a bad habit develope and reinforment of behavior you like. I like to let them find birds/dummies near me and if they need more leg, I let them go longer between finds. O'course I have always started off with the best pups I could get my hands on. I would hate to be a pro and have to deal with lug headed hounds.

[Trekmoor]

That explains quite a lot ! I still have Erlandsons first book and I met him a few times and we corresponded by letter a few times too. He was a man of strong opinions and he didn't suffer fools gladly.

I find it easy to let spaniels hunt out a bit as they get older and after they are 100 % when close in to me. All that needs to be done is to hunt them where game is a bit sparser. They don't get many finds close in so they begin to " pull" further out to find some in much the same way as the pointing breeds do. After that it is up to the handler to decide just where to draw the range line.

I appreciate that in the U.S. you are more gamebird orientated in terms of spaniel work than we are here. Our dogs are supposed to be kept in at comfortable rabbit shooting ranges. A good number of British trainers do use checkcords when training spaniels but very few spaniel trialers use them. Like me they feel they can inhibit a dog and besides that if the pup is kept close in to begin with a check-cord simply isn't needed. I don't know of any spaniel trainer who uses an e-collar , with a different kind of training regime that isn't needed either.

I am not anti either e-collar or check-cord , I just don't need to use them when training a pup.

British spaniel trialers spend a fortune in money, time and effort travelling the country in search of rabbits to hunt and shoot. Some British landowners have come to realise this and are asking for very considerable sums of money to have their rabbits shot for them ! ...... The landowners used to pay to have them shot , gassed or snared . It's a changing world and I'm not sure I like it . :roll:

Bill T.

[paul purchase]

thanks everyone for your help but i still need to know what to do when she comes back after she has gone on one of her little loonouts!! how do i punish her or do i just ignore her? i should get my e collar this week, maybe that we get her attention. thanks again...paul.

[Trekmoor]

Well in my opinion prevention is better than cure. Get after her if she bogs-off and insist she turns or returns to whistle.
Catching a dog in the act is better than catching it after the act.

A quote ..... " Anything you let a dog do you are training it to do." You are training your pup to go self-hunting.

Bill T.

[dakotashooter2]

DON'T ever punish her for coming back.... even if she has been on an extended run ... remember that in a dogs mind you are punishing them for the very last thing they did... She will think she is being punished for returning. You always want them to enjoy coming back to you. The check cord and e collar are for corrections when they do not respond as they should. A sharp tug or some stimulation gets their attention. Springers have a wild streak and take some patience to control. My current pup which is the most timid of the four I have had seems to be the most challenging.