pointing distance

[ScoutB]

How far off the bird do you typically want your dog to hold point? My pup will sometimes catch a scent or see a bird 50 ft off. Then he starts stalking. If this were in any type of cover I would not know where the birds were. He could be pointing a whole thicket at 50 ft. We have just been doing this during fun time so far. I have been letting him stalk until the bird flushes. My thinking was the birds will eventually teach him how close he can get. Is this right? Without shooting the birds and letting him go get them how do you show him the rewards of pointing and letting you take over from there?

[topher40]

Distance doesnt really matter, once the dog establishes point/game they need to stay put. This doesnt matter if its 2 ft or 50ft. Creeping is a killer on hunts. Sounds like your dog has a great nose though.

[zigzag]

Sounds like his nose is great. What does his stalk look like from 50ft? Is it just getting birdy tail flagging and short search pattern? Or is it a full on creep/stalking?

[cmc274]

Scout B,

How old is the dog?

I'd saying you are doing it right. Keep quiet and let the dog figure out how to handle the birds. I know the dog is more efficient at finding, handling and pointing birds than I am, so I will let him handle that part.

[RayGubernat]

If you ae working the dog on wild or nearly wild birds, i believe your pproach will eventully work and you will have a better dog for it, because the birds will have conducted the dog's education.

If, as the season approaches, the dog is still "roading in", there are some things you can do, with e-collars and possibly remote launchers that can help to get the "point" across. (yes the pun was intended...I know it was bad)

RayG

[fishvik]

Just out of curiousity, those of you that have dogs with, what you consider, pretty good noses. Under normal hunting conditions ( light wind, humidity in the 40-60% range and 50 to 60 degrees air temp) how far out can you dogs smell a bird and lock up?

[ezzy333]

Just out of curiousity, those of you that have dogs with, what you consider, pretty good noses. Under normal hunting conditions ( light wind, humidity in the 40-60% range and 50 to 60 degrees air temp) how far out can you dogs smell a bird and lock up?

I don't have a clue as one day one dog may point long and another one point close and the next day may be just the opposite. Some days are better than others but I think there is a problem determining how good a dogs nose is. Too many varibles to come up with a definite answer. One thing I have learned is not to worry about it as it is not something you can control and I don't think I have seen a dog that couldn't smell. Even those that seem to have trouble with birds can smell food, so I think the better question is what causes one dog to be more alert to the smell than if it can smell.

Ezzy

[RayGubernat]

Fishvik -

As Ezzy said, there are a lot of different factors, BUT, to answer your question somewhat directly, I have had numerous dogs lock up at ranges of up to 30 yards(30 long steps) during training.

Thus I would say that a dog can establish point at those kinds of ranges in the field.

RayG

[ScoutB]

Sounds like his nose is great. What does his stalk look like from 50ft? Is it just getting birdy tail flagging and short search pattern? Or is it a full on creep/stalking?

Full on stalking

[ScoutB]

Scout B,

How old is the dog?

I'd saying you are doing it right. Keep quiet and let the dog figure out how to handle the birds. I know the dog is more efficient at finding, handling and pointing birds than I am, so I will let him handle that part.

My pup is 6 months old today.

[ezzy333]

Scout B,

How old is the dog?

I'd saying you are doing it right. Keep quiet and let the dog figure out how to handle the birds. I know the dog is more efficient at finding, handling and pointing birds than I am, so I will let him handle that part.

My pup is 6 months old today.

I don't think you have much of a problem at that age.

Ezzy

[birddog1968]

You can teach them to crowd birds tho if you continue with a method that allows or encourages that.....

[rinker]

At six months I am letting puppies knock and chase anyway, but I would not tolerate this from an older dog. I want the dog to point as soon as he is certain that there is game present. I can always relocate him if the bird is so far out that I don't flush it on the initial attempt.

[DogNewbie]

Are you using bird launchers? If you are it sounds like a good time to start popping birds once he starts to creep. Unless you feel like he hasn't established a strong prey drive yet. Then I'd just continue to let him do his thing.

[SetterNut]

Your pup is still pretty young and learning the ropes. The creeping / stalking can or will likely become an issue for you at some point.

Under decent scenting conditions you will be amazed at how far a dog will point a bird. My two are pointing on first scent for the most part. So the distance will vary depending on where they hit scent. On a bird that has a lot of scent like a pigeon I have had them point at 40 yards. That is not really good or bad, it is just what it is. I don't like to see my dogs move after they hit scent. If I can't put up a the bird, I relocate them.

In training a launcher is a big help stopping the creeping / stalking. When you see them on scent, and they don't stop, you launch the bird. Don't say anything so that they learn that it is their movement that caused the bird to flush.

[cmc274]

Where is the need to put any type of pressure or correction on the dog (including bird launchers)? It is a 6 month old puppy. Who cares if it creeps, let it teach itself how close it can get. It sounds as though he is working the dog on wild birds, so it will eventually learn it cant catch them, so it will give up on the chase itself. A dog that creeps, is a dog that wants to chase. If its still an issue down the road, address it when you break the dog. I'd make it natural for the dog and not inject launchers, pigeons or pen raised birds into the equation. When hunting season comes around, shoot the ones he handles correctly. I know DGFavor has posted before about working his young dogs on wild birds, I like the approach.

[SetterNut]

If he has enough wild birds around that is a great way to let the dog learn to stand off the birds. If he doesn't have wild birds letting the dog creep in, in the long run will cause problem, when he does get to wild birds.

I don't see where launching a bird is putting any more pressure than wild birds. You are not saying a word or making a correction at this point. It simulates a wild bird as best as possible.

At 6 months old many dog are standing birds without creeping, and other may not have matured to that level yet. There is no rush, but you also don't want to develop problems that are training induced. The problem with giving advice on line is you can't see the dog and what the situation is.

[Sharon]

Distance doesnt really matter, once the dog establishes point/game they need to stay put. This doesnt matter if its 2 ft or 50ft. Creeping is a killer on hunts. Sounds like your dog has a great nose though.

Exactly. Well said.