point status

[ibbowhunting]

well me and sikka my 8 month old britt have been doing a little training when its no so hot out, at first she took awhile to start scent pointing ,shes been sight point trash birds for months now. lately she has been pointing pigeons imo to close to the launcher for a few seconds, then bustn in,now i'm getting better at reading her to tell when shes scenting the bird, sugguested in past posts should i launch the bird as soon as she starts scenting? what will help increase pointing time? more birds? now this is what i have to work with a small opening/wooded area behind the house,(maybe 2.5 acres) 1 pigeon that homes, i got 10 prisoner/breeder pigeons that i don't really want to kill or lose yet and some young birds. so we have been workn the one bird nightly after it starts to cool down and the wind dies down in the evenings which i think the wind would help us out, i also think more then 1 bird a night would help too but thats what i have to work with. so i've been check cording her into the bird she creep a little, points alittle when when she brakes point i launch the bird, drop the cc and let here chase ,i walk away and say nothing. any input would be helpful BTW i'm not worried with our progress,just baby steps right? just correct me if i'm doing something wrong

[bonasa]

I'd rewind a bit. How is her recall? If it is good , plant the bird/launcher and hunt it dragging the cc, not holding. If the recall is not so good I'd focus on that. When she gets to within 45 feet of the launcher, whether it be upwind/downwind/crosswind/no wind; pop it and let her chase...for now. Don't rush it , don't force the point ; it's there.

[DonF]

You should know just where the bird is, where the wind is coming from and with that it's not really necessary to know when she hits first scent. Good to know but not necessary. She get's within 10yds down wind of the bird, launch it. If she get's withing 5yds up wind, launch it. You will find that pretty quick she will point the bird before you get it launched, then don't launch till she moves anything. Walk around her to the front and watch her like a hawk. She bats an eye lash, launch. It is her movement that moves the bird. I had a shorthair years ago that hit her first point like that that she rolled completely over and came up on point. You cannot check cord a dog into a bird and get the same result.

[ibbowhunting]

her recall is good i was thinking that the check cord was not helping things, meaning she seems to hunt different when i'm bounce on the end of the cord. just had it i my mind that i don't want her to catch the bird but i don't think she will catch a hard flying pigeon out of a launcher, but i have had a couple young pigeon flop to the ground out of the launcher,this evening she pointed 10 to 15 yard down wind for a few seconds than she moved and i launched the bird

[4dabirds]

There is another way to look at this. When the dog stops to point if you wait to launch the bird when the dog moves you are assuming that the dog considers the flight of the bird a correction. You are placing your perception of the behavior as a human being on the dog. Since dogs learn by association the association you are making is not necessarily the one the dog makes. Now picture the dog makes the association that when he moves he makes the bird fly , but the bird flying is rewarding to the dog. He has learned to produce the bird. If you turn this scenario around and the bird is the reward for standing still the dog learns to stay on point to produce the bird. Once the dog is trained to stay steady to shot the retrieve is added to the drill not before. If the drill you are doing is rewarding the dog for moving this will be reinforcing an unwanted behavior, thus training this behavior into the dog then the dog will need to be corrected for something it has not been trained to do. It is a crap shoot to assume these associations will be made in the way you expect. This is why a training program for whoa with systematic introduction to the behaviors you want to guarantee the outcome you need. http://www.georgehickox.com/articles/wh ... d-dogs.pdf This may help you to understand what I am talking about a little better

[zigzag]

That is a really great artical for every young bird dog owner begining training. I made my share of mistakes when my pup was young. Using CC around birds and thinking I could teach him whoa that way. Thankfully I got to a Pro trainer before I really screwed him up. Looking back and reflecting I think I took some pointing style out of my pup, With some of the early training I did.

[ibbowhunting]

well i thought we were making progress but today, i'm thinking what i'm i doing wrong? letts back up to the last couple of weeks , on the first few birds she never pointed them just roded in on them, then after launchn them before she got to them she would point the birds for a few seconds then rodes in on um, after a few sessions of popn the bird after she moved any, her point time seem to increase slowly maybe 30 seconds never long enough to get in front of her or even to her, the last few times she starts creepn very early which i dont think she really pin pointed the bird, i think that we are training on the same very small piece of land an the gigs up she knows there a bird there somewhere and she just has to find it. do you think a change location my help? whats next. it has been sugguested to me to start whoa'n her (which she isnt whoa trained yet)now i was hoping to be able to get her steady enough to atleast get to her before she trys to flush the bird, is this unreasonable thinking without whoa training, from the info i've read and watched i think there is two trains of thought on to whoa or not to whoa in this stage of training your input would be great, thanks in advance

[whatsnext]

I would wait to whoa brake the pup until she is steady to flush, how old is the pup? I went back and read the first post and see the pup is 8 months. I would just keep popping birds until the pup starts holding to the flush.