Delivering to hand

[benelli]

My 20-week GSP (Scout) is doing really well with fetch, he'll play until his legs fall off. I don't know if it's a bad idea or not, but we've been using tennis balls (usually with a Chuck-It, just to help burn off energy), but he'll do just as well with a dummy. Anyway, especially with the tennis balls he has gotten to where he'll reliably drop it at our feet for us to pick up and throw again (we got him to do that by playing with two tennis balls, so he had to drop the one for us to throw the other, and now we can play with just one). Anyway, I thought that would be acceptable for hunting, if he were to just put a bird down at our feet, but then I came across information suggesting the bird could fly away.

Is that something to worry about? If so, any suggestions on getting the dog to hand the ball/dummy/bird to us nicely? We haven't done force fetch training and I'd rather not - he has plenty of desire to play fetch, and we're happy with Scout being an okay/decent hunting dog and not a perfect one ... I'm doing most of his training with a 13-month-old in tow and pregnant with another due in January, and my husband is helping out in the evenings, but basically we can't train him to do everything so we're trying to pick the important things.

Thanks!

[RoostersMom]

I taught my Vizsla the "hold" portion of traditional Force Fetch. That's all I felt like he needed. He's a MH that delivers reliably to hand every time. He will pick up anything I ask him to and carry it forever. There are other benefits to FF if you have the time, but I am perfectly happy with only teaching him HOLD. I have other dogs that I have successfully FF'd. It did take some time and it's not for the fainthearted!

[DogNewbie]

First off, I wouldn't suggest doing anything more than what you're doing until the pup is about 6-7 months old. Every dog is different, so you'll have to make the call yourself, but you will be putting a tiny amount of negative pressure on the dog with this method so make sure your dog can handle it.

Have you introduced the verbal command "fetch" yet? Does he hold the ball until you say drop or does he beat you to it and drop on his own? Since you don't want to FF the dog, and assuming your pup understands "fetch" to mean bring ball back and drop at feet as quickly as possible, I'd suggest teaching the dog "hold." This is done through short (5 fetches) daily training sessions where you force the pup to hold bumpers. It's very natural for a dog to pick up items and hold them in their mouth on their own free will, but being forced to do so is very uncomfortable for them. The training starts with simply commanding "fetch" and sticking two fingers sideways into the dogs mouth and then commanding "hold." The dog will struggle to get your fingers out of its mouth but you must win the fight. Once the pup gives up, you can command "drop" and let the pup take its mouth off your fingers. Don't remove your fingers from the mouth. Always make the pup remove the mouth from the object being fetched. Once the pup is holding your fingers consistently without trying to tongue them out, you can move on to a small soft bumper or paint roller. This time, when you command "fetch" and then "hold" the pup is going to have more freedom to spit out the bumper. Each time this happens, grasp the top of the muzzle and gently but firmly squeeze the pups gums into his teeth as you pick up the bumper and re-fetch him. You shouldn't be hurting the pup, just making him uncomfortable so he learns that he can avoid that discomfort by not dropping the bumper until you say "drop." I'd do this step again with plastic bumpers as well and maybe even the tennis ball you guys play with. Avoid letting him tongue or chew on any of the items while holding them. He should hold them quietly in his mouth. Once he is holding different bumpers well, you can start encouraging him to walk while holding the bumpers in his mouth. Then you can start making short retrieves with him and commanding "hold" when his is on his way back to you. He may stop once you command "hold" but just encourage him to come to you and stand next to you until you reach out and command "drop." As he progresses, you'll be able to transition the "hold" command out of the "fetch" process all together.

[DonF]

I'd want the dog to deliver to hand. It brings back a cripple and spits it on the ground, it can run off. Of course the dog will be right in it again but it's a game there's no need to play. If you decide to teach him to deliver to hand, your all but there. Go to one tennis ball of retrieving buck and when he spits it at your feet, do not pick it up, kick it away. Once he4 holds it in his mouth, take it from him. Give him a hand with that. get down on a knee when you kick it away so you can get it before he spits it. You drop it coming out, kick away again. You'll get to where he'll hand it to you and then you get up off the ground.

[benelli]

Thanks! He does understand the command "fetch" (we say "go get it," but effectively the same thing). So for times when he loses track of the ball, we can tell him firmly to "go get it," and he'll keep looking until he finds it. Good to know we don't need to worry about releasing in our hand for a little while - for now I guess we'll just keep doing what we're doing and keeping it fun, I just don't want to form bad habits we'll need to undo later on.

[benelli]

I'd want the dog to deliver to hand. It brings back a cripple and spits it on the ground, it can run off. Of course the dog will be right in it again but it's a game there's no need to play. If you decide to teach him to deliver to hand, your all but there. Go to one tennis ball of retrieving buck and when he spits it at your feet, do not pick it up, kick it away. Once he4 holds it in his mouth, take it from him. Give him a hand with that. get down on a knee when you kick it away so you can get it before he spits it. You drop it coming out, kick away again. You'll get to where he'll hand it to you and then you get up off the ground.

We used to take it from his mouth, the difficulty is that we were having to fight him a bit for it, and I didn't want it to turn into tug of war. At first we got the ball/dummy from him by prying his mouth open quickly, but that made him kind of want to dodge us a bit when he came back, so we tried using two tennis balls and he's definitely enjoying the game more, but obviously he's not delivering to hand.

[DogNewbie]

If you're having trouble with the dog dropping you can grab his skin at his flank and give it a tug, he'll drop the ball so he can whip around to try to bite the pinch. He'll learn really quick to drop on command

[jimbo&rooster]

At 5mos I wouldnt get real concerned with anything that wasnt fun for the dog. what i would be doing now is when he is coming back, you should more or less know roughly where he will drop the ball. right about the time he gets to that point you can take a short step forward and cup your hand under his chin. at this point just gently hold his mouth around the object so he cant spit it out. IF he holds it, love him up and praise him for being a good boy and give him another toss. If he drops it or spits it out thats fine, just put the object up and its game over for the day.


As far as a bird flying off when the dog drops it at your feet, If you didn't have any more birds than we do you would chrish the extra shooting.....

First off, I wouldn't suggest doing anything more than what you're doing until the pup is about 6-7 months old. Every dog is different, so you'll have to make the call yourself, but you will be putting a tiny amount of negative pressure on the dog with this method so make sure your dog can handle it.

Have you introduced the verbal command "fetch" yet? Does he hold the ball until you say drop or does he beat you to it and drop on his own? Since you don't want to FF the dog, and assuming your pup understands "fetch" to mean bring ball back and drop at feet as quickly as possible, I'd suggest teaching the dog "hold." This is done through short (5 fetches) daily training sessions where you force the pup to hold bumpers. It's very natural for a dog to pick up items and hold them in their mouth on their own free will, but being forced to do so is very uncomfortable for them. The training starts with simply commanding "fetch" and sticking two fingers sideways into the dogs mouth and then commanding "hold." The dog will struggle to get your fingers out of its mouth but you must win the fight. Once the pup gives up, you can command "drop" and let the pup take its mouth off your fingers. Don't remove your fingers from the mouth. Always make the pup remove the mouth from the object being fetched. Once the pup is holding your fingers consistently without trying to tongue them out, you can move on to a small soft bumper or paint roller. This time, when you command "fetch" and then "hold" the pup is going to have more freedom to spit out the bumper. Each time this happens, grasp the top of the muzzle and gently but firmly squeeze the pups gums into his teeth as you pick up the bumper and re-fetch him. You shouldn't be hurting the pup, just making him uncomfortable so he learns that he can avoid that discomfort by not dropping the bumper until you say "drop." I'd do this step again with plastic bumpers as well and maybe even the tennis ball you guys play with. Avoid letting him tongue or chew on any of the items while holding them. He should hold them quietly in his mouth. Once he is holding different bumpers well, you can start encouraging him to walk while holding the bumpers in his mouth. Then you can start making short retrieves with him and commanding "hold" when his is on his way back to you. He may stop once you command "hold" but just encourage him to come to you and stand next to you until you reach out and command "drop." As he progresses, you'll be able to transition the "hold" command out of the "fetch" process all together.

Not with a5mo old pup


Jim

[DonF]

I'd want the dog to deliver to hand. It brings back a cripple and spits it on the ground, it can run off. Of course the dog will be right in it again but it's a game there's no need to play. If you decide to teach him to deliver to hand, your all but there. Go to one tennis ball of retrieving buck and when he spits it at your feet, do not pick it up, kick it away. Once he4 holds it in his mouth, take it from him. Give him a hand with that. get down on a knee when you kick it away so you can get it before he spits it. You drop it coming out, kick away again. You'll get to where he'll hand it to you and then you get up off the ground.

We used to take it from his mouth, the difficulty is that we were having to fight him a bit for it, and I didn't want it to turn into tug of war. At first we got the ball/dummy from him by prying his mouth open quickly, but that made him kind of want to dodge us a bit when he came back, so we tried using two tennis balls and he's definitely enjoying the game more, but obviously he's not delivering to hand.

never fight a dog to get something out of it's mouth, to easy to do. when the dog gets back with it, Pull him into you. With one hand hold it'd collar under it's chin and scratch it under the jaw. The other hand goes over the back to the opposite side and you stroke him from his shoulder to his flank. Three or four strokes and as the last stroke goes to the flank, bend your two middle finger's under the flap of skin from the flank to the top of the leg, move your other hand to the retrieved object, give the release command and lift that flap of skin all at the same time. It will annoy about 99.9% of the dogs and they will turn their head to remove the fingers in the flap of skin and let go of the buck at the same time. As soon as you have the buck, straighten out your fingers. Works like magic!

[Qwernt]

I had to use two tennis balls to get my pup (now 2) to fetch all the way back to me. To get her to actually put things in my hand, I just wouldn't throw the second until I had the first. Oddly enough, I say "in my hand" and tap my hand. It took a little time, but she got it. Of course, since no one else forces her, she drops the balls at the feet for my wife and kids.
I gave this same advice to a german shephard owner. Her dog understood hand motions (left, right, jump) and could remember 3-4 commands and execute, but because the owner didn't "force" return to hand, the dog always dropped it about 5 feet away. Once I taught her the in my hand idea, it took about 10 minutes for the dog to understand what was expected.
If you dog is smart, even a puppy can figure it out fairly quickly, as long as you have what they want and the don't get it until they do things the way you want.

[Doc E]

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[Francois P vd Walt]

[/quote]We used to take it from his mouth, the difficulty is that we were having to fight him a bit for it, and I didn't want it to turn into tug of war. At first we got the ball/dummy from him by prying his mouth open quickly, but that made him kind of want to dodge us a bit when he came back, so we tried using two tennis balls and he's definitely enjoying the game more, but obviously he's not delivering to hand.[/quote]

You could hold your hand and if he doesn't deliver it in your hand you don't let him have the other one ! Now that he understands he has to bring one to get another he will do whatever it takes to keep playing, now you can teach him many things .....
The importance of knowing your dog and understanding him you have managed to do, well done !