SIT not DOWN

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jcalla4
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SIT not DOWN

Post by jcalla4 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:29 pm

Having a small problem with my GSP pup. She does very well with heel, sit, and down on the lead. I taught her down because we duck hunt out of small boats and pirogues fairly often. Anyway, when she is off lead and I tell her to sit, she sits, but as soon as i walk away, she goes to the down position. It does not bother me too much right now because although down, she is still attentive. However, I would like to start correcting the problem before she gets into the habit of laying down when told to sit or vice-versa. Has anyone had similar problems and if so, what are some ideas to correct this behavior?

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ezzy333
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Re: SIT not DOWN

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:47 pm

I can't really help youmuch as I do not teach sit to a puppy for the very reason you are experiencing. Your pup knows it is doing a good thing when it lays down and occasionally you will have the same problem with a pup when it points. It will sit or lay down as it knows those are safe positions that you like it to do.

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Cajun Casey
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Re: SIT not DOWN

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:50 pm

Give her a STAY command and if she breaks the sit, put her back in position and have her do it again. Don't let her get sloppy. To get her past it, you might have to have her do a standing stay for a while until she gets the idea that where she is when you say, "STAY," is how she needs to be when you get back.
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mountaindogs
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Re: SIT not DOWN

Post by mountaindogs » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:56 pm

The easy answer is just stop asking for a down for several months, correct gently immediatly as she drops and require more sit stay. They detail you might need to add is training her to move UP INTO a sit FROM DOWN position. Its a whole different command for most dogs. I mean same word cue but very different action to them.
Another option is to train with a platform and teach sit o a small rump sized platform that she will fall off of if she tries to lay down. This builds mscle memory and concept but you still have to transfer it to ground eventually or pay a platform caddy ;)

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Cajun Casey
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Re: SIT not DOWN

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:52 pm

Several months? Clarify the command and pop her back up a few times and it should take a few sessions.
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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gonehuntin'
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Re: SIT not DOWN

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:15 am

Teach her she only "downs on down". When she lies down from sit, calmly walk back, command "No, Sit!" and gently step on her front toes bringing her to the sit position. Many dog's do it and it isn't really a problem. Actually, I don't know why you even care. For your dog, down will be more useful than sit anyhow, unless you teach her to run blinds and demand sit on the whistle.
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4dabirds
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Re: SIT not DOWN

Post by 4dabirds » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:04 pm

You have trained the dog to offer a behavior that is rewardable. Behaviors that are rewardable will be repeated. You now have to train the dog the difference between the two rewardable behaviors, since the dog is offering a behavior to get the reward but it is not the behavior you want at a specific time. This is why a lot of pointing dog trainers do not teach sit, it becomes one more thing to train and when the dog gets confused it will offer learned behaviors to get reward that may not be conducive to the plan at the moment. This is a good example of how clicker training can be very effective. As the click marks the behavior it is easier to communicate to the dog the exact moment the behavior that is wanted is exhibited. This coupled with target training enables the trainer to create a mechanism too relate to the dog behaviors that are unwanted simply by saying wrong or eh- eh. , without having to correct for the unwanted behavior as though it was something the dog has done that is correctable. You could spend some time learning this method or you could just stand the dog back up every time you say sit and the dog lays down and vice versa, and..... when the dog sits on point. Either way it will take time. Do not expect the dog to exhibit behaviors you have not trained.

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jcalla4
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Re: SIT not DOWN

Post by jcalla4 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:27 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:Many dog's do it and it isn't really a problem. Actually, I don't know why you even care. For your dog, down will be more useful than sit anyhow, unless you teach her to run blinds and demand sit on the whistle.
To clarify, she needs to sit in the blind so she can see what's going on (marking falls). She needs to stay down in the pirogue (a small, flat-bottomed canoe for those of you who don't watch "swamp people" :D ) so she doesn't obstruct my view or tip us over. That is the reason why, although it isn't a big problem now, I foresee it becoming a problem if she picks up that habit, which she is bound to do if she isn't corrected early. Just this afternoon, I did try the method you described, and we made a little progress. I told her sit, then walked away. When she went to lay down, i told her no, calmly walked up to her and put my foot on her toes. The first couple of times she was a little confused and i had to help her sit. After a few times she got the idea. I noticed though if I go a little too far, she goes back to lie down again. I guess I'll have to work up the distances with more sessions. But anyway, its a good start and your idea worked.

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AzDoggin
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Re: SIT not DOWN

Post by AzDoggin » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:35 pm

gonehuntin' wrote: For your dog, down will be more useful than sit anyhow, unless you teach her to run blinds and demand sit on the whistle.
Agree. Do you really need sit? I'd think there would be much higher training priorities...

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Re: SIT not DOWN

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:20 am

Here's the other thing, IF she has to sit to see in the blind, she WILL sit just to see the birds once she catches on. The first couple of times you may have to keep her sitting, and have someone else throw a duck from hiding in the bushes so she can see the arc of the fall and the splash.

A lot of dogs lie down in the blind until they hear the duck call, then sit or stand to see where the action is.

You're making some progress, just be persistent with it and don't get angry. It takes longer to undo a problem than it does to create it.
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Re: SIT not DOWN

Post by Gooseman07 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:59 am

I see this as, there has already been a habit created if she is doing this every time you tell her sit.

Both of my dogs know UP, which means get up from whatever you are doing to the next highest stance. Example: laying down, UP, sitting; sitting, UP, standing. I had to pop up my australian shepard a few times in order to get him to understand. I don't remember what I did with my GSP to get him to understand but he does not sit when i tell him to stay standing or lay down when i tell him to sit.

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