Laying down in scent cone

[Big bloc]

10 month old female EP. Last week working with pigeons and launcher I got her to whoa in the scent cone no problem. This week I worked her in to the scent cone about 20ft from bird she stop and laid there. What could be going wrong? She has been around blanks no problem. She has even had a few solid points. Need help

[bb560m]

Why are you whoaing her - is she not going on point? She probably isn't ready to be steadied and whoad on birds. Get her pointing and pop birds as soon as she moves is my guess.

[AzDoggin]

What training method are you following?

Style on point/birds is the LAST skill you develop in most methods.

[brad27]

She's laying down because she feels pressure.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Yep TOO much pressure & you may not think you are putting pressure on the dog but it's evidentley TOO MUCH for this particular dog at this age.

[Stoneface]

I think it's great that you're working the dog on birds at this age, but I'm with the others. If you're putting a lot of pressure on her Whoa training then Whoa her on birds, she's not laying because of the scent cone, it's because she associates the command with pressure. Try laying off the command. Another option that is doubtful, but may be pertinent depending on her background, etc, is that she may be laying (it would actually be more like a crouch in this case) on point because she doesn't want to scare the bird. We see the high 'n tight trial dogs in photos all the time, but there are dogs out there that show the opposite behavior on point. I don't think it's likely, but it's possible.

This is an example of a Setter doing what I'm talking about.

[Doc E]

Why are you whoaing her - is she not going on point? She probably isn't ready to be steadied and whoad on birds. Get her pointing and pop birds as soon as she moves is my guess.

Exactly .


.

[mountaindogs]

I think it's great that you're working the dog on birds at this age, but I'm with the others. If you're putting a lot of pressure on her Whoa training then Whoa her on birds, she's not laying because of the scent cone, it's because she associates the command with pressure. Try laying off the command. Another option that is doubtful, but may be pertinent depending on her background, etc, is that she may be laying (it would actually be more like a crouch in this case) on point because she doesn't want to scare the bird. We see the high 'n tight trial dogs in photos all the time, but there are dogs out there that show the opposite behavior on point. I don't think it's likely, but it's possible.

This is an example of a Setter doing what I'm talking about.

Did it only happen once?
If so, it might be the dog is doing something closer to Stoneface's second option. Sometimes dogs throw crazy stuff at you and they are really just cought by surprize. Especially with low levels of experience. BUT THE KEY IS READING YOUR DOG. If you see flagging or glancing back at you or signs that the dog is nervous when they throw a crazy point, then you need to re-evaluate your methods. I would ignore it the first time, and see if it happens again. Was the dog VERY VERY exicted or was it cautious before catching the scent? I had a dog once, at a hunt test no less, thow a point like the above. It was right out of the gate about 1 minute into the test and she was running full out. The judge had just gotten out the words, "I love her run" when she skidded into point and ended like that. crouched down. Judge raises an eyebrow at me with a sideways glance. does not do it justice, but also I was thinking WTF? this is totally new!!! I flushed the bird and moved on and never saw it again out of her.... I think she was so excited and caught by surprise herself, that she was think "oh sh**! the bird is right here" She was tight on the bird too, only about 5-6 feet away. She never even glanced at me, didn't move a muscle, was 100% focused on that bird.No sing of worried about what I THOUGHT, but every sign that she was ON THIS BIRD.
So I throw it out there as possible that your dog could be doing that. Still, it can be a huge warning sign and tread lightly and carefully the next time, lighten up, and give a lot of slack for a while. If it's this other situation, lightening up won't hurt anything at this age, anyway! Probably help either way.

[Sharon]

I've found that is often done by a dog that is is getting to0 close to the bird before scenting it . it may lie down ( make itself appear smaller), to avoid a flush. Use launcher to flush the bird as soon as you see the dog moving in too close.

[gittrdonebritts]

No more Launcher work or commands besides calling her in wild bird hunt that dog and let her grow up some before putting any more pressure on her.

[AzDoggin]

Can't disagree with the good folks above. Did come across this article by accident just now: http://dobbsdogs.com/library/pointing/pdj21.html

[DonF]

Pressure does it and so does uncertainty. Your stopping her with a whoa, you positive she has scented the bird when you've whoa'ed her? I had a friend years ago that had his little setter sitting when he'd say whoa. Told him what to do over the phone and he just couldn't get it. he drove about 250 mi to here with her and in about two minutes the problem was fixed. her problem was she was uncertain of what to do with the whoa command so she assumed the safe position. Your dog may or may not be doing that. if you take her out in the field and whoa her without birds, what does she do? If she lays down, you've found your problem. Put her check cord on and whoa her again. be in front of her and pull toward you and up with the cc gently until she get's up. The instant she's up, quietly tell her whoa and release the pressure on the cord. She lay's back down, do the same thing again.

[Big bloc]

Thanks for all the replies. I will back off for while. The only reason I started launcher work is to get her to get from busting birds in the wild. Took her out Sunday and got up about 10 birds just by running in on them after she got birdy. I know she is young and by no means Iam trying to push things. I thought if she keep this up she might think its ok to bust right in. When it comes to the launcher she has caught on because she slows down the looks at me like she knows what going on

[Ruffshooter]

Also would agree with the above. Also with what you describe with the launcher she is a bit confused.

You are right to back off. She will not catch the wild birds.

Just a side note. The EB in my avatar, on occasion will lay down when on point of if the bird moves a bit.. For her it is full on intensity. I have seen her do it on Woodcock. It is like she is a cat or something. Back in the old days, dogs were trained to do that.

Rick

[DonF]

Thanks for all the replies. I will back off for while. The only reason I started launcher work is to get her to get from busting birds in the wild. Took her out Sunday and got up about 10 birds just by running in on them after she got birdy. I know she is young and by no means Iam trying to push things. I thought if she keep this up she might think its ok to bust right in. When it comes to the launcher she has caught on because she slows down the looks at me like she knows what going on

What you say about her slowing down and looking at you like she knows what's going on make's you way to late in launching the bird and definitely confused. Slowing down means she knows what's coming and looking back at you is like asking, "what do I do". Laying down is the safe posture for her. Keep your mouth shut and launch the instant. she's onto the bird. You do that and you'll find you don't have much of a problem.

[4dabirds]

10 month old female EP. Last week working with pigeons and launcher I got her to whoa in the scent cone no problem. This week I worked her in to the scent cone about 20ft from bird she stop and laid there. What could be going wrong? She has been around blanks no problem. She has even had a few solid points. Need help

This is really hard to diagnose because there is a lot of info missing in your post. If you have used any pressure on the dog to train the whoa command , even just leash jerks the dog may associate the command with pressure and lie down. Maybe you have trained using a barrel and all positive reinforcement. then this may not be a pressure issue. Don has a great point but it may not be that either . Give a little info on what you have done up to this point for a little more concise answer.