Steady on birds.

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ggrimm
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Steady on birds.

Post by ggrimm » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:17 am

I have a 20 month old Pointing Lab. I have let him chase quail from a recall pen. He started pointing these birds right away. Then I started using the check cord with planted birds in a launcher which he points well, but chases the bird when it flushes. I also yard teach him whoa on and off boards and barrel. Recently I have him whoa on a board and put a quail in a wire cage in view of him for steadiness. I will have him whoa for several minutes while I walk near the cage to get the bird moving around. Then I will release him from whoa to heel and take him for a little walk, then come back to the whoa board and whoa him. I will then move the cage closer and open the door so the the bird will eventually walk out of the cage. He holds whoa until the bird flies then he wants to give chase. The last time I did this he held steady even when the bird flushed.
I think my next step is putting a quail in the launcher in weeds out of sight, letting him point, then launch the bird and if he is steady, shoot it for him. Then let him retrieve the bird. If he gives chase I guess I stop him with the checkcord, and go back to the steadiness exercise with the caged bird.
Does this sound like the right thing? And any tips would be appreciated.

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AzDoggin
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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by AzDoggin » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:38 am


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DogNewbie
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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by DogNewbie » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:44 am

I think if he chases, stop him with the cc (and maybe the ecollar if you are using one once the bird is in the air) and reset him(pick him up and place him back where he first moved.) Some people say not to reset the dog and to be honest I don't really understand the debate. All I know is I was taught to reset the dog so I do. It sounds like he is right where you want him on the whoa board, so if he is chasing in the field it's because you need to teach him the same rules apply in the field as on the whoa board. Going back to yard work because he is chasing birds in the field isn't going to break him from chasing birds in the field IMO.

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birddog1968
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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by birddog1968 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:45 pm

I personally like to take the chase out without the dog pointing a bird and no scent on the ground.....and with pigeons. You have to be very very careful how much pressure you use and not to have it associated with pointing a bird. By taking the chase out without a bird on the ground to point you nullify some of the risk of doing the wrong thing or using too much pressure in association with pointing.
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campgsp
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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by campgsp » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:46 am

First thing is he completely woah broke? What I mean is does he woah on command off the board all the time?
If not go back to that and get him doing that superb first. You don't want to be rushing things.

If he is go back to launcher. You shouldn't need a board to woah him on. Plant the bird. Have him point while on a check cord. Have an assistant behind him or a post in the ground to put cord around. Launch bird. If he moves Yank on the cord yelling woah at same time. Then give praise and repeat.

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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by ggrimm » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:33 am

Thanks for all the tips.

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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by rkappes » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:41 am

birddog1968 wrote:I personally like to take the chase out without the dog pointing a bird and no scent on the ground.....and with pigeons. You have to be very very careful how much pressure you use and not to have it associated with pointing a bird. By taking the chase out without a bird on the ground to point you nullify some of the risk of doing the wrong thing or using too much pressure in association with pointing.
How do you go about doing it this way?

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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by birddog1968 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:21 am

Its kinda of a hard thing to explain, its much more clear to witness.

but basically i drop pigeons for the dog after having the dog stop, then use the slightest collar pressure you can imagine Like a 1 low to start and tap tap tap. Most dogs will stop chasing on the 3rd bird.
You have to keep your mouth shut and let it be between that pigeon flying away and the dog. And you really don't want to see any physical evidence of the collar pressure except the dog stopping.


It really sets in the dogs mind that there is no real reward in chasing and I didn't have to whoa the dog......
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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by DonF » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:26 am

birddog1968 wrote:Its kinda of a hard thing to explain, its much more clear to witness.

but basically i drop pigeons for the dog after having the dog stop, then use the slightest collar pressure you can imagine Like a 1 low to start and tap tap tap. Most dogs will stop chasing on the 3rd bird.
You have to keep your mouth shut and let it be between that pigeon flying away and the dog. And you really don't want to see any physical evidence of the collar pressure except the dog stopping.


It really sets in the dogs mind that there is no real reward in chasing and I didn't have to whoa the dog......
I've never used that method but am sure it will work. I do it in the yard with the dog on whoa. I release pigeons to fly and stop the chase with the collar, bump, bump, bump till the dog stops. I'm one that doesn't reset the dog. I don't think it hurts a thing and I also don't believe it does any good. Once the dog is stopped, the drill moves on for me. Everything should be between the dog and the bird. Your job is to referee, and of course think for the bird.
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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by birddog1968 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:50 am

DonF wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:Its kinda of a hard thing to explain, its much more clear to witness.

but basically i drop pigeons for the dog after having the dog stop, then use the slightest collar pressure you can imagine Like a 1 low to start and tap tap tap. Most dogs will stop chasing on the 3rd bird.
You have to keep your mouth shut and let it be between that pigeon flying away and the dog. And you really don't want to see any physical evidence of the collar pressure except the dog stopping.


It really sets in the dogs mind that there is no real reward in chasing and I didn't have to whoa the dog......
I've never used that method but am sure it will work. I do it in the yard with the dog on whoa. I release pigeons to fly and stop the chase with the collar, bump, bump, bump till the dog stops. I'm one that doesn't reset the dog. I don't think it hurts a thing and I also don't believe it does any good. Once the dog is stopped, the drill moves on for me. Everything should be between the dog and the bird. Your job is to referee, and of course think for the bird.

+1 Don, there is some work that leads up to that point in the way I was taught but thats the jist of the stop to flush method I use. Sounds like we do about the same thing.
Last edited by birddog1968 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by slistoe » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:50 am

I always used to reset the dog. It was how I was shown. I think it puts more pressure on the dog and I am not sure how much real value it has. The jury is still out for me on the no reset as I haven't tested the dogs in competition when trained, but I do like the less pressure on the dog and they seem to come to understand.

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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by birddog1968 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:04 am

I don't reset the dog , its the way i was taught and I agree its less pressure to not reset. I've not seen anything that would make me think resetting is necessary.
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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by 4dabirds » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:30 pm

Will the dog whoa consistently with out any distraction off the board.

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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by gonehuntin' » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:34 am

This is a lab, steady him in the YARD, not the field. Put him on SIT, tie him to you waste with a slip cord, and throw a clip wing so it lands close, maybe six or ten feet out. If he lunges, tip him upside down, bring him back, and do it again. NEVER LET HIM GET THE BIRD IF HE BREAKS!!

When he is 100% on this, tempt him unmercifully. Throw the bird, then call other dog's names. Tip him upside down if the goes on any name but his.

When he is perfect at this, he's ready for the training field, where you'll have to reinforce it all again.

A pointing lab is NOT like other bird dog's; some care little about retrieving, some will NOT retrieve. A lab is a retrieving machine, pointing lab or not. As such that desire to retrieve is much harder to channel.
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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by deke » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:10 pm

Personally i let my dog chase, granted i dont own trial dogs. But for pheasant hunting i want my dog on the bird when it hits the ground

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Re: Steady on birds.

Post by ggrimm » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:18 am

I will go back to yard whoa training until he is rock solid, then resume the tempting him with birds, then go back to planted birds. Thanks again for all the help.

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