Planted Bird vs Wild Birds on a young dog

dreamrr · Post by **dreamrr** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:22 pm

I'm new to the forum and new to the German Shorthaired Pointer world. I recently got a GSP from great bloodlines and he seems like a great dog. This is my first hunting dog and I didnt want to screw him up, so I sent him to a great gundog trainer to be trained for hunting for the next 2 months. Anyway, long story short, my trainer goes on an annual hunting trip to South Dakota for pheasant hunting. He has offered to take my dog with him and his other dogs or he can leave him behind and continue the training when he gets back 10 days later. At the time of the hunt, he will be into his training 1 month (so half way). My question is, do you think it would be better to have this trainer take him on this hunt and let my dog work wild pheasant or should I just have him continue normal planted bird training when he returns?

Keep in mind, I hunt quail and chukar; not pheasant. But I think it may be good to train him on some wild birds too. What are your opinions?

By the way, he is a 1 year old German Shorthaired Pointer.

Thank you!

bb560m · Post by **bb560m** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:50 pm

1,000,000% take him!!!!! Wild birds are the best for dogs to learn on. Too close they fly, can't catch them, teaches them where to look too.

Let him go!

Wildweeds · Post by **Wildweeds** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:42 pm

Send the dog........... your paying for him to set in a kennel or.................. if he goes he's gonna be working birds.Did I mention send him?

dreamrr · Post by **dreamrr** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:19 am

Yes, send him! I live in Las Vegas and do not have the capabilities to train correctly not to mention the knowledge required to train a good dog. He works birds every day for 60 days and is being trained professionally.

I feel I'm doing what's best for my dog

dreamrr · Post by **dreamrr** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:44 am

And yes, if he goes he will hunt wild pheasant

SHORTFAT · Post by **SHORTFAT** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:53 am

I don't see a down side to sending him... vs sitting in a kennel at your $$$ for 10 days...

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:44 am

Only thing you have to remember about wild phez and a not fully established pointing dog, is Phez can loosin a dog up, cause some creeping and relocating. Which is fine
if its going to be a phez dog primarily. I wouldn't want my half trained dog that i may or may not trial or test starting out on wild phez. I've also seen wounded roosters give
a dog a fight and cut noses and eyes, which can make a young dog a little shy, or like one of mine not retrieve promptly until she knows the bird is subdued.

It all depends on what your goals are , as a rule I try and keep young dogs away from wild phez even if I do go west to hunt wild birds with that young dog. JMHO.

Mike50 · Post by **Mike50** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:40 am

Wish my trainer would make me that offer

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:44 pm

birddog1968 wrote:Only thing you have to remember about wild phez and a not fully established pointing dog, is Phez can loosin a dog up, cause some creeping and relocating. Which is fine
if its going to be a phez dog primarily. I wouldn't want my half trained dog that i may or may not trial or test starting out on wild phez. I've also seen wounded roosters give
a dog a fight and cut noses and eyes, which can make a young dog a little shy, or like one of mine not retrieve promptly until she knows the bird is subdued.

It all depends on what your goals are , as a rule I try and keep young dogs away from wild phez even if I do go west to hunt wild birds with that young dog. JMHO.

sir, you are right on.i saw pen raised pheasant beat up young dog,i can imagine what a wild pheasant could do. my small munsterlander pup will not see pheasant for at least 2 yrs.
maybe longer.
pheasants run most of time somewhat and i feel it hurts a pointing dog pup .

me i am sticking to grouse/woodcock.

donnie_19 · Post by **donnie_19** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:19 am

Send the dog to SD. See if the trainer will let you come up for a visit. Chances of getting spurred and ruining your pup are slim and thats the least of your worries. Getting a nose full of wild bird scent is priceless.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:50 am

I don't think there's much difference in the scent of a wild pheasant and a pen raised one. I don't believe that there is a scent difference between any training bird we use and their wild cousin's. What I do believe is there is a huge way in the way they act and when a wild bird picks cover, it probably does better than we do. We use a compromise between really good cover and cover we can see the dog to correct if need be. The wild bird could care less if we can see the dog or not, it will correct the dog on it's own. And the wild bird will not give the dog just one more little step to see if it is going to do it right this time. No, a wild bird is leaving the country. The only problem other than they don't co-operate with you is density. One day where you find birds, the next they are gone. The Dakotas from what I understand have that problem whipped. There's so many birds you step on them! if I could afford it, I'd send the dog.

dreamrr · Post by **dreamrr** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:36 pm

Thanks everyone for your opinion.

I have decided to send the dog to South Dakota!
Permitted the trainer and I both think he is ready. He is still towards the beginning of his training. As long as he is good with gunfire, I'm sending him!

I think I am going to have a really good dog here in just a few short months! Very excited!

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:45 am

Wild bird experience is priceless !

German Shorthairs are tuff dogs if he was bred from good lines no rooster will beat him out of hunting or retrieving ! IMO
Can you join them ? This will help you see how your dog works and how the trainer applies the commands this will also get the bond between you and the dog a good introduction to good times ahead.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:38 pm

Francois P vd Walt wrote:Wild bird experience is priceless !

German Shorthairs are tuff dogs if he was bred from good lines no rooster will beat him out of hunting or retrieving ! IMO
Can you join them ? This will help you see how your dog works and how the trainer applies the commands this will also get the bond between you and the dog a good introduction to good times ahead.

Ever see a rooster slice a dogs eyeball open? Ever see a rooster cut a dogs nose so bad they never REALLY retrieve well again? Always either holding the bird down until subdued or crunching to make sure a birds dead? It happens and I don't care how tough anyone thinks the breed they like are.....Just sayin

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:01 am

Wild pheasants can play havoc with a young dog and can even cause an older dog to come unglued if they have never hunted them before. It could possibly set the pup's training back. Just something to keep in mind. However, if you have a good and experienced trainer, I would probably just go with his advise.

Charlie

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:32 am

The pup is a year old. plenty old enough to go hunting. All of our master dogs were started on pheasants at 6 to 8 months. Never had a problem. I think roosters are over rated has far as fighting a dog goes. They pretty much give up. You can't protect him from everything. Let him go and learn from the wild birds. Best thing for him. Cj

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:32 am

All Im really saying is you have to know and understand what you may want to do with the dog in the future.....

If i was looking to trial the dog in broke stakes or shoot to retrieve I keep them away from phez until they are older and established as a trial dog in the particular venue of interest.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:17 am

very good advice on young dog and pheasant.
46 yrs hunting pheasants and i had too think back if i ever had dog injured on one?
no, i did not but i ruined a few dogs on retrieveing because bird beat up dog with it wings and pecking at eyes.
those dogs wanted nothing to do with touching a pheasant after that.

today i only take clean shot on pheasants SO i dont have wounded one that could do as many said above.
any pheasant out past 35 yds i let go.

bb560m · Post by **bb560m** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:15 am

JIM K wrote:very good advice on young dog and pheasant.
46 yrs hunting pheasants and i had too think back if i ever had dog injured on one?
no, i did not but i ruined a few dogs on retrieveing because bird beat up dog with it wings and pecking at eyes.
those dogs wanted nothing to do with touching a pheasant after that.
today i only take clean shot on pheasants SO i dont have wounded one that could do as many said above.
any pheasant out past 35 yds i let go.

I just don't shoot for the puppies, just let them use their nose and figure out where wild birds hide.

dreamrr · Post by **dreamrr** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:01 pm

Well, turns out my dog will not be going to SD. Spoke with the trainer today, and he says that the dog is just not ready. He's one month into his training and the trainer says he is doing very well and he thinks I have a great dog on my hands, but he doesn't want to take the risk of ruining him with all the gun fire that will be going on. He just started gun conditioning, and he says one gun is very different than 10 guns and he doesn't want to risk it.

I would have to agree. It sucks he won't get the experience, but I guess I will trust my trainer...

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:12 pm

Smart trainer.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:41 pm

Sharon wrote:Smart trainer.

Ditto!

Charlie

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:44 pm

+1 to many guns to many birds falling CAN ruin young dog !
Smart trainer ........

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:52 pm

big storm coming to pa has woodcock GONE in my area.
sad, whiskers was having a ball on them.
oh well,i am going to buy hunt for 350 dollars with 25 chuckers .
going to do it around 9 months on whiskers and kill a few birds.

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:26 pm

There are still lots up here. There will be woodcock trickling in down there a long time yet I imagine.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:19 pm

birddog1968 wrote:
Francois P vd Walt wrote:Wild bird experience is priceless !

German Shorthairs are tuff dogs if he was bred from good lines no rooster will beat him out of hunting or retrieving ! IMO
Can you join them ? This will help you see how your dog works and how the trainer applies the commands this will also get the bond between you and the dog a good introduction to good times ahead.

Ever see a rooster slice a dogs eyeball open? Ever see a rooster cut a dogs nose so bad they never REALLY retrieve well again? Always either holding the bird down until subdued or crunching to make sure a birds dead? It happens and I don't care how tough anyone thinks the breed they like are.....Just sayin

i would not risk dog that young on wild pheasants even tho i never had that happen.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:20 pm

dreamrr wrote:Well, turns out my dog will not be going to SD. Spoke with the trainer today, and he says that the dog is just not ready. He's one month into his training and the trainer says he is doing very well and he thinks I have a great dog on my hands, but he doesn't want to take the risk of ruining him with all the gun fire that will be going on. He just started gun conditioning, and he says one gun is very different than 10 guns and he doesn't want to risk it.

I would have to agree. It sucks he won't get the experience, but I guess I will trust my trainer...

there you go.yes, GUN FIRE .

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