what to do on wild birds

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azwoodsman
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what to do on wild birds

Post by azwoodsman » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:09 pm

my pup is whoa trained and will stand to flush on pigeons...Quail opened here oct 5th we have been out hunting 4 times and have gotten into 10 or 11 covey's she will not point the Quail she runs right through them like they mean nothing to her. she does not chase them or even act like she noticed them. If I take her out in an open field with planted pigeon she comes to point as soon as she gets scent and does not move to flush or shot ...any thoughts or is it just going to take some time until she learns to hunt wild bird..she is 10 months old been trained on pigeons since she was 4 months old. If I was on a canned hunt for pigeons she would be great..right now I am not doing anything I just let her run and if a covey gets up in front of her I don't do anything except watch where they go and take her in that direction she seems to get the scent as she will spend alot of time around a bush or tree that the quail were in but she does not point them..Thanks in advance

QuillGordon
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Re: what to do on wild birds

Post by QuillGordon » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:16 pm

I'm not a pro trainer by any stretch of the imagination but just went through the same thing with my now two year old GSP. Quail are not the greatest wild bird to train on in my opinion. They are little runnin sob's and when you do get them to hold it's usually so tight the hound can get right on top of them. With that said try not to shoot when she blows through the birds & let the Quail birds teach, especially if thats the game you'll be playin, eventually the hound gets it.

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JIM K
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Re: what to do on wild birds

Post by JIM K » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:21 pm

no expert .pup is young.

Wildweeds
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Re: what to do on wild birds

Post by Wildweeds » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:47 pm

Concur on the being on the young side,keep exposing her,it's an age old game known as "Point em or Knock em" She will point them when she is ready,it's all new to her and she needs to figure it out.Don't say whoa either,let her work it out with the birds,she will have an encounter that flips her switch that turns on the point,when she does be ready with the gun and MAKE sure to do your DARNDEST to knock one down for her.

I had a dog that did this very same thing,it was 9 3 hour hunts before she swapped ends on a bird,she ran through a bunch before she pointed.I killed the first one she pointed and we didn't go but another couple hundred yards before I was shooting for her again.About 20 minutes after that second bird she pointed a third bird and we were limited out.She got nothing but better and better.That dog was 16 months old at the time,and I had worked her on nothing.I had her littermate who pointed and held for me to flush the first bird she ever saw.A huge difference between the two.Everydog is different in it's own special way.Don't get overly caught up in "My dog SHOULD be doing this this and this".This next part you will find somewhat disappointing.IMO the dogs first season is the dogs,the rest of them are yours.

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azwoodsman
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Re: what to do on wild birds

Post by azwoodsman » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:18 am

Thanks guys for the advice I will keep taking her out and exposing her to wild Quail and let her learn on her own...

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AzDoggin
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Re: what to do on wild birds

Post by AzDoggin » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:32 pm

azwoodsman wrote:Thanks guys for the advice I will keep taking her out and exposing her to wild Quail and let her learn on her own...
Compared to those big pigeons - the Gambel's quail are dickie birds to your pup!! Presuming she's gun broke, if she so much as pauses before a pounce once, I'd be tempted to shoot a bird for her just to let her know THIS IS WHAT WE'RE AFTER!!

Gambel's are track athletes. My old britt handled them well, but she was about as wild as the birds were. It takes time and encounters...

If I were you and had pigeons, I think I'd work on stop to flush some. The sound of fluttering wings should cause the dog to stop, not to keep running and busting. "Fluishing birds say "whoa."" Here's a article: http://4imgs.com/1028/pdf/Equalizer.pdf It's just another low-pressure way to encourage the dog to try using their brain in addition to their legs. The good thing about STF is that it is away from scent - flying birds only - so it keeps the prey drive alive and flourishing in a young dog. Some of them get so caught up in the chase, it's like they forget what their role is out there.

Good luck!! (Glad to hear you are getting into some coveys!!)

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DonF
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Re: what to do on wild birds

Post by DonF » Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:00 pm

Those Arizona quail are supposed to be a lot harder than our valley quail up here. The dog hit's a big covey up here and they don't hold much, they are to spread out. When the flush they separate and then you get the singles and they hold well.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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AzDoggin
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Re: what to do on wild birds

Post by AzDoggin » Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:06 pm

DonF wrote:Those Arizona quail are supposed to be a lot harder than our valley quail up here. The dog hit's a big covey up here and they don't hold much, they are to spread out. When the flush they separate and then you get the singles and they hold well.
Don the singles do tend to hold better here too depending upon the cover.. If the cover is too sparse, then the race is on and they will all run, run, run, re-group then eventually flush as a group. If you watch them, you might get to them again, but they hit the ground running too. I've heard them called "Chukars of the Desert." Since some call Chukars "Devil Birds" I guess that gives you an idea...

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Here's some high desert cover around Cottonwood, AZ. Azwoodsman - is this similar to the area you are hunting or did you go a little lower?

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Nearer Chino Valley:

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azwoodsman
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Re: what to do on wild birds

Post by azwoodsman » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:13 am

AzDoggin I live in Chino Valley we have had her out near Skull Valley so the country looks the same as your pics.. I have held off on the shots not wanting her to think it is okay to bust them....they are spooky..they are getting up and flying 10 to 15 yards in front of her as far as I can tell. She is interested in the brush they come out of and spends alot of time scenting that area and once pointed into some brush that I had seen them come out of but there were no birds in it just fresh scent.

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