Steady to Wing and Shot first Before Force fetching?

[birdhunter23]

i have a 3 year old male gsp he is trained steady to wing and flush he retrieves Ok not always good and i am wondering if i should train him steady to wing and shot first before force fetching or does it not matter . and do some of you have special ways or tips on training steady to wing and shot? and im thinking of buying the SmartFetch dvd any take's on that?



Chukar huntin

[birddog1968]

FF him first, then break him steady next spring would be my approach.....

Smartworks is highly praised....although any proven method followed thru with will work just fine.....

[4dabirds]

Is the dog staying on point until you flush the bird? Or is the dog flushing the bird?

[birdhunter23]

he is very steady on birds he is whoa broke but if the bird flushes or i flush the bird he will take off after it.

[nj gsp]

I sent a dog to a pro a couple of years ago, and he said that he does all the obedience stuff first before introducing birds - whoa, heel, come, and force fetch have nothing to do with birds, and he says get that out of the way first. Once that stuff is done, move on to bird work and steadiness training.

[birddogger]

As far as the question about Smart Fetch.....Get it!!

Charlie

[bb560m]

Mine was steady first before doing FF - I doubt it matters. If your dog is whoa broke why not say whoa before he takes off after the bird?

[birdhunter23]

he is here and heel and whoa broke i can Whoa him on birds all day i have not worked with keeping him on whoa after a bird has flushed i was planning on working on getting him steady to wing and shot after the seasons over .but i was wondering witch would be better to teach force force fetching or steady to wing and shot ..

[campgsp]

You would have to to force fetch training first. Here is why. During the ff training no bird work is to take place. No playing fetch in the yard or such. The only training need be going on during the six weeks of ff is ff and obedience. If you try and do the steadiness as the same time only failure is going to happen. Doo his ff then the steadiness. Its easier this way. Always obedience first then birds.

For the steadiness there are different approaches. But here's mine. With a planted bird and dog on a CC.. flush the bird when he moves woah him if he continues on grab that CC and Yank dropping him to the ground. I know it sounds bad but it works. Set him back in the initial spot. Woah him and style him up with a little good boy. Then heel him off to a different direction. Don't continue to work that bird go work another. If you let him work that bird its only going to show him what he did by breaking wass ok..


Good luck

[bb560m]

he is here and heel and whoa broke i can Whoa him on birds all day i have not worked with keeping him on whoa after a bird has flushed i was planning on working on getting him steady to wing and shot after the seasons over .but i was wondering witch would be better to teach force force fetching or steady to wing and shot ..

If you say whoa on a bird and then he runs after flush, he is not whoa broke.

[Doc E]

he is very steady on birds he is whoa broke but if the bird flushes or i flush the bird he will take off after it.

So, he hasn't been de-chased yet ----- right ?



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[birdhunter23]

no he has not been de'chase yet.

[birdhunter23]

i say Whoa on birds he does not Move he holds point until i flush birds or they self flush i thought whoa means to stay when the word is said i never tell him to whoa after the bird has flushed .

[gonehuntin']

I'd ff him, then steady him. FFing will give him better obedience as well, and give him a new respect for you. It will be much easier to steady him after you force him and he really respects you.

[birdhunter23]

fortunately a few days ago i met a professional gun dog trainer who invited me on a hunt the next day of meeting him and he evaluated Thunder and said He is Fine dog only problem is the retrieving and i will be leaving to Germany next month so while im gone .i will be leaving Thunder with him and he will try to bring out his natural retrieving if that does not work he will help me force fetch him..

but he said there can be a down side to with all the pressure on the dog can change him and how he hunts
any of you have had this side effect happen?

[campgsp]

I would think that if the ff training was done with negatives and not kept positive dog could change for the worse. But if done correctly with a positive influence things can only get better. I like to personally do it myself because the bond you make with the dog during is huge. The respect between man and dog after is really something hard to explain but once you see it you'll know.

[birddog1968]

Nope never heard that one before.... That would make me leery of that trainer.

[birdhunter23]

yea i think i will just buy smart fetch and force fetch him myself and give him lots of praise when his doing correctly ...would love to duck hunt with him

[ezzy333]

Nope never heard that one before.... That would make me leery of that trainer.

I have never heard of positive training when doing FF, hence the title"FORCE Fetch".

Ezzy

[campgsp]

Nope never heard that one before.... That would make me leery of that trainer.

I have never heard of positive training when doing FF, hence the title"FORCE Fetch".

Ezzy

Ezzy the whole program revolving around ff training is being positive with the dog. Lots of praise is given when things are done right yes you use a type of pressure to make them do what you want but you're never really punishing them. And if you where to make it punishment just think how badly the outcome would be.

[campgsp]

I just like to add that your mood plays its part to just like any other training. But its especially important to be in a good mood for ff. Being in a bad mood and trying to do ff is not a good situation. You can really hurt your pup.
Just an example of positive ff training.

[DogNewbie]

fortunately a few days ago i met a professional gun dog trainer who invited me on a hunt the next day of meeting him and he evaluated Thunder and said He is Fine dog only problem is the retrieving and i will be leaving to Germany next month so while im gone .i will be leaving Thunder with him and he will try to bring out his natural retrieving if that does not work he will help me force fetch him..

but he said there can be a down side to with all the pressure on the dog can change him and how he hunts
any of you have had this side effect happen?

I've heard that for some dogs their point will weaken a bit right after FF because the desire to fetch the bird is so fresh that they can get ahead of themselves and try to grab the bird, but I've never heard of this issue lasting.

[Ruffshooter]

but he said there can be a down side to with all the pressure on the dog can change him and how he hunts
any of you have had this side effect happen?

Two things; If he is going to be with a trainer, why not get it over with and have the dog ff. You will do the same drills with the dog to help establish you back in the mix.

If this guy is putting so much pressure on a dog during FF that it is changing how the dog hunts then there is something wrong. Look for another trainer.

The only side effect I have had is a better more responsive dog and they do pay attention to me in the field more.
Just My Opinion.

[gonehuntin']

yes you use a type of pressure to make them do what you want but you're never really punishing them. And if you where to make it punishment just think how badly the outcome would be.

I think that depends on how you look at it. Dog doesn't open his mouth when commanded to fetch, result? Pinched ear until he does. Is that pressure to open his mouth or punishment because he didn't?

Force fetch all about FORCING a dog to perform against his will. That is a true force fetch program.

Yes, you tell him good dog when he's doing it right, but you exert hard pressure when he defies you or does it wrong.

I don't think there's a dog in the world that, if he could communicate with you, would consider ff a "positive" experience.

And yes, it's also true that during ff a dog CAN slow down, especially if he battles you on the force. They come right out of it when the pressure is through though.

[Doc E]

As most of you know, I'm a Lab guy.

So, from my perspective : FF first then Steady to Flush/Shot/Fall.



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[donnie_19]

I am in the process of FF my 1 year old brittany. He has shown a strong desire to hunt and have killed a few pen quail around him. He is a good bird finder and holds his points but will not retrieve and doesn't really show much interest. I am starting to use the Smart Fetch program. I feel it does a couple of things that will help in the steadiness down the road. Fetch is a command to be obeyed, just like come or whoa. To me steadiness to wing and shot or wing and fall are an extension of Whoa.

[ultracarry]

What pro trainer did you talk to? Send a pm if you want.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

Force fetch will only help with steadiness in the future. The important thing is that if you decide to FF, all other training and hunting needs to stop untill the program is finished.

[4dabirds]

If you want to train a dog to be steady to shot and fall , what are You training the dog to do if you allow it to break on the shot? Why train the retrieve before the dog is steady?