how did you all fix this?

LtsHnt · Post by **LtsHnt** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:05 am

here is the dilema...female v, 6months old, has been on wild birds now for a while and does very well, finds birds and loves doing it....however, (and i know this is a good thing i jsut dont know how to correct her) as soon as that bird gets up, she is gone...i mean full out see ya never gone...after chaseing 300yrds or so, she stops, looks back and makes her way to me.....should i get after her for this or allow it and be happy she has the drive and just wait...i know shes young so that the only reason i ask, i dont want to hurt her drive at all, and she will be going to a trainer this spring. any ideas, i have a shock collar but wasnt going to use it until shes a bit older.

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:57 am

I'd let her chase. She's pretty young to be getting after her. Definately not with the e collar.

Doug

campgsp · Post by **campgsp** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:06 am

To me it sounds like she need more obedience training. She isn't recalling when you call her or woah broken. Go back and work on both.
get the obedience packed down before you send her to a trainer. It will help him and you less time he should need to spend on that. Just a hint.

Don't worry about her loosing prey drive because you train her to do something I've never seen it or
Heard of that happening before. Once they got it they always will.

Good luck.

zigzag · Post by **zigzag** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:06 am

LET her chase. Does she point good and hold for you to get there? If so you dont want to do anything diffrent. Did you say she was a Vizsla? I was not sure from your post. Find the right trainer if she is a Vizsla and no E collar just let her whear it in the off position for a few more months. Put it on her when you go on off leash walks in the field or whateaver you do.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:12 am

I would let her chase. About this time last year the vizsla pup I was training was chasing pheasants just as you describe.....and sometimes even further. You mention that at about 2-300 yards she stops and begins to think about where you are again ? If you wait until then to blow recall you will probably notice after a while that the pup begins to slow down as it begins to reach it's chase range limits. Begin to whistle recall the instant you see that slowing of pace. What happens is that the chase range gradually becomes less and less until eventually the chase is for only a few feet.

The vizsla I'm training is now completely steady to pheasants ,she doesn't move forward at all and I don't use check-cords or e-collars ,all I use is timing of whistle and verbal commands plus praise. All of my pointing dogs have been trained in this way......it takes several months rather than a few days or weeks but .....so far..... it has worked well with the viszla and with the dogs (GSP and Brittany) that I successfully trialed.
I don't know if the U.S.viszlas are as sensitive as the ones in Britain but if they are then I would be very careful when using corrective training methods.

Couldn't resist posting in a couple of recent pics of the vizzie on point .... I'm really pleased with the way this bitch is developing ,it has taken a lot of time but the result has been good.

Bill T.

Jagerdawg · Post by **Jagerdawg** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:20 am

This is just my opinion so take it for what it is worth. If you let your dog get away with something i.e. chasing, breaking whatever, you are really telling the dog it is ok. This creates a bigger problem having to break them of a behavior you condoned. Never let a dog get away with anything they take it as a sign of weakness. The age and character of the dog will dictate the level of correction. With a puppy always keep it fun. Until my dog is reliably broke they wear a check cord in the field. You will get lots of opinions find what works best for you.

LtsHnt · Post by **LtsHnt** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:47 am

how do i train this obedience without the e collar...i have a check cord on her however she is usually just out of range for me to grab it in time...if i hold the cc, i end up being the one to flush the birds, the cc is about 30 ft long. i found if its jsut the pup, the birds hold better and with how wild these phez are thats important. any ideas of how to correct it...like i said, i dont want to use the e collar just yet considering her breed and age. her "here" command is good but not perfect yet although i do work on it constantly she is very head strong.

Jagerdawg · Post by **Jagerdawg** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:57 am

Maybe I don't understand. Don't you want to be the one to flush the birds? Or do you want the dog to do it. My first shorthairs were strictly hunting dogs and I did have them trained to flush on command.

LtsHnt · Post by **LtsHnt** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:49 am

hard to explain, just seems when im behind a bit she really gets birdy and does a great job finding them...however when i have the cc in hand it seems as soon as she catches scent the birds are gettin up much earlier and at her age i feel it really helps the pray drive and just practice finding birds by scent when i fall behind some....maybe ill jsut keep the cc in hand for now and see how it goes for a bit, or be more attentive on her actions, maybe i can get the cord in hand before the birds get up....seems the cc is my only answer for now anyways until shes a bit older....?

Jagerdawg · Post by **Jagerdawg** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:18 am

I know your dog is young. I don't think you've said. Is your dog pointing at all? Or its it just working the bird and flushing it?

trueblu · Post by **trueblu** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:04 am

I haven't posted in a long long time but this one got me a little. A pointing dog is not about control. Puppies do not need to be in total control. Putting obedience, WHOA, breaking dogs, etc. at 6 months is flat too early. Other obedience work is fine at this point, HERE, KENNEL. If the dog is pointing, holding point reasonably well on her own, then flushing as she feels the pressure of you coming from behind her or just getting anxious and just having to see that old bird, is just fine and NORMAL. IF she is pointing and holding, let her stand there, don't say a word. No whoa, atta girl, business. It will take her focus off the bird and put in on you. I would begin to work on light WHOA at home and then just hunt her as much as you can this year. Then, this summer, begin more formal yardwork, WHOA, nicking her on pigeons to slow up the chase, etc. But, be careful!! If you are not well experienced with the collar you can turn one birdshy quick!!

Where is was said to not let her get away with anything. You cannot have it both ways. A bird finding machine, who loves to hunt AND a dog that heels, whoas, etc. ALL at 6 months. You will either give up pray drive or will never teach the dog to be independent and take you to birds if you put so much obedience on her so young. I've owned too many shorthairs to count and of the ones I kept as trial or lease hunting dogs, none were run off idiots with no obedience by the time they were 2. Made for far better dogs from 2-12 years old.

V-John · Post by **V-John** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:11 am

She is six months old...

Still a baby, I don't see what the problem is.
You very well could cause more problems than you fix.

This first season is hers.
Then start to put some manners on her.

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:34 am

Excellent posts by trueblue and v john.

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:44 am

Check your PMs

Jagerdawg · Post by **Jagerdawg** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:58 am

I never intended to give the impression I was suggesting to break a 6 month old puppy. Way to young for most dogs. The question was about chasing. I only wondered wether the dog would point at all before the flush and chase. Were I hunt and train roads are present I can't have my dog chasing birds for a safety reason alone. Once my dog knows a command no matter what age I expect them to preform when told. I won't tell them to do a command they know more than once then I correct them. I'm only talking about commands they have been taught. If they haven't been taught not to then they aren't getting away with anything. I truly believe in letting a puppy be a puppy. Like I said this is only my opinion take it for what it is worth. I have learned alot on this forum reading peoples opinions.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:10 am

LtsHnt wrote:here is the dilema...female v, 6months old, has been on wild birds now for a while and does very well, finds birds and loves doing it....however, (and i know this is a good thing i jsut dont know how to correct her) as soon as that bird gets up, she is gone...i mean full out see ya never gone...after chaseing 300yrds or so, she stops, looks back and makes her way to me.....should i get after her for this or allow it and be happy she has the drive and just wait...i know shes young so that the only reason i ask, i dont want to hurt her drive at all, and she will be going to a trainer this spring. any ideas, i have a shock collar but wasnt going to use it until shes a bit older.

This is OUTSTANDING development for such a young dog. The fact that the dog breaks and chases and then stops and comes back to you is AWESOME. Keep your mouth shut, watch and enjoy. Your dog is VERY VERY young...too young for anything besides towing a checkcord, IMO.

About the only thing I would consider doing is, if the opportunity presents itself...

Set the dog back up in the vicinity of the original find, style the dog up and set it stand there for a bit before moving the dog on. Say nothing and be calm, gentle and positive. Otherwise, just let the dog's drive and desire to get birds develop naturally. When the dog is ready, it will chase less and less and eventually stand when it realizes that is the only way it will get to wrap its gums around bird.

Sometimes doing nothing except providing the opportunity for the dog to learn... is the hardest thing. Let the birds teach the dog...you won't regret it. It may take longer, but it will be worth the wait.

RayG

bb560m · Post by **bb560m** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:46 am

Don't say a word, let her chase. It will eventually figure out it cannot catch the birds. Do not shoot any birds unless she holds point and stops chasing. She will realize she only gets birds when she does it right. Did this with my V and he was broke at 15mos old - which I think is pretty young for a V.

Right now you have a very young dog, don't worry about her listening, breaking, etc. Keep taking her to birds she cannot catch, but can point. Give her another year until you start using the collar and whoahing her on birds so she doesn't move.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:09 pm

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:Excellent posts by trueblue and v john.

Agreed!!! Nothing to add to that.

Charlie

Wildweeds · Post by **Wildweeds** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:09 pm

Nice post TrueBlu, couldn't agree more.At six months you let em buck snort rip around and get fired up,get em to go with you ,everything is supposed to be fun fun fun.I have a philosophy that the first and quite possibly the second season depending on the maturity(and off age pups) between the ears is the dogs and the rest are mine.

Gun Dog Forum

how did you all fix this?

how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?

Re: how did you all fix this?