Releasing a dog to flush

[yogi]

1 1/2 yr old Vizsla. Holds point and steady to shot 99% of the time. Usually points from a good distance 20-30ft on average. Sometimes I think the birds are moving away from us and I cant get my dog to release. Even when I walk in front of him 30ft or so he dont move until the bird flushes. If there's no bird i have to call him repeatedly to come to me. I walk in every direction around me because when he points in a specific direction sometimes the bird is there but right or left. Sometime I use the stim to get him to come to me which works 100%. Should I even try to change this? If so how? Only asking because I not that good a shot and I would like to be ready to shot rather busting brush.

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

That's a dream dog to a lot of people! I wouldn't change a thing, except to teach him a release command. Don't shock him into moving.

Takes quite a bit of time to get a dog to the point yours is at. You should probably practice flushing and shooting.

That's a special dog.

[campgsp]

Have you tried to relocate him on the bird. What he is doing is superb!
Look harder for the bird.

[ezzy333]

1 1/2 yr old Vizsla. Holds point and steady to shot 99% of the time. Usually points from a good distance 20-30ft on average. Sometimes I think the birds are moving away from us and I cant get my dog to release. Even when I walk in front of him 30ft or so he dont move until the bird flushes. If there's no bird i have to call him repeatedly to come to me. I walk in every direction around me because when he points in a specific direction sometimes the bird is there but right or left. Sometime I use the stim to get him to come to me which works 100%. Should I even try to change this? If so how? Only asking because I not that good a shot and I would like to be ready to shot rather busting brush.

I think you need to teach a release command or signal such as tapping the dog on the head and saying OK or whatever command you want. He should move and relocate the bied for you. You can teach flush but I don't like to do that on a regular basis, but to each their own.

Ezzy

[hunterw/newhobby]

Its a good problem to have for sure but I understand your situation. I usually hunt by myself so I also found the need to teach her to flush. I have basically trained my GSP to do what you are asking and the release command is what you are wanting to put into place. (I use get the birds) She'll hold point (usually) until the command and the part I like is it allows me to get my feet set and ready to shoot. Some people are against this (I think mainly because of trialing/personal preference) but most european hunters train the command. Her instincts tell her to freeze when on birds (point) so you basically have to teach her its OK to move WHEN YOU TELL HER TOO. If she does her job correctly reward her with a shot bird if she doesn't do it correct she doesn't get rewarded. I'm not a professional trainer but that's what I did and I'm pleased with it.
good luck
Ross

[yogi]

Its a good problem to have for sure but I understand your situation. I usually hunt by myself so I also found the need to teach her to flush. I have basically trained my GSP to do what you are asking and the release command is what you are wanting to put into place. (I use get the birds) She'll hold point (usually) until the command and the part I like is it allows me to get my feet set and ready to shoot. Some people are against this (I think mainly because of trialing/personal preference) but most european hunters train the command. Her instincts tell her to freeze when on birds (point) so you basically have to teach her its OK to move WHEN YOU TELL HER TOO. If she does her job correctly reward her with a shot bird if she doesn't do it correct she doesn't get rewarded. I'm not a professional trainer but that's what I did and I'm pleased with it.
good luck
Ross

Thanks Ross,
Im not sure how to train this but its something I will look into. I dont want him to think he can flush birds without my command. I work hard to get him to the point that hes at right now. He still is young and makes his mistakes but he is a good dog.

[Trekmoor]

I train and encourage all the pointers I train to flush on command. It just isn't a problem. When the pup will hold point until I reach it two or three times I simply cease to praise the point in any way and after the flush command , the dog moves in and flushes and I do praise the flush even if the pup has begun to chase the bird. Then I begin to train the pup that it should sit or at least stop following the flush and praise for that instead of the flush.

I never move in front of a pointing dog, that might mess up the scent for the dog making it more difficult for the dog to either flush or to follow up on a moving bird. It's a different way of doing things but it is very common this side of the pond.

Bill T.

[trueblu]

Where there are successes to allowing/training a pointing dog to also flush, I would bet there are 10 failures to 1 success, where the dog stops pointing and turns to busting birds and creates a problem that has to be fixed. I guess I wonder why one wouldn't just buy a flushing dog. Personal preference I guess. But, I personally enjoy a dog locking up, high head and tail, trained to the point the dog will stand through all the shooting, but marks birds, and retrieves on command. I guess if one hunts pen birds that all but have to be kicked to fly then finding them might be tough and the dog could be used. But, I've never had to search too hard to get wild bobs to fly. I'd just hate to see you create a problem you can't fix.

Not sure how you "praise" the point, unless you don't worry about a dog flagging. Finally, man, it sure isn't pretty to see a pointing dog sit on point, even after the flush. Again, to each his own I guess.

[DogNewbie]

Where there are successes to allowing/training a pointing dog to also flush, I would bet there are 10 failures to 1 success, where the dog stops pointing and turns to busting birds and creates a problem that has to be fixed. I guess I wonder why one wouldn't just buy a flushing dog. Personal preference I guess. But, I personally enjoy a dog locking up, high head and tail, trained to the point the dog will stand through all the shooting, but marks birds, and retrieves on command. I guess if one hunts pen birds that all but have to be kicked to fly then finding them might be tough and the dog could be used. But, I've never had to search too hard to get wild bobs to fly. I'd just hate to see you create a problem you can't fix.

Not sure how you "praise" the point, unless you don't worry about a dog flagging. Finally, man, it sure isn't pretty to see a pointing dog sit on point, even after the flush. Again, to each his own I guess.

I don't think the 10 to 1 figure is accurate at all. The Europeans have been doing it this way for years without any problems. If nine out of ten pointing dogs turned into a flushing dog I think they'd have stopped with the flushing by now. To me it's just a matter of opinion. I don't have enough experience with hunting dogs yet to decide which method makes most sense for me, but I must admit, kicking around the bush looking for a bird seems a little silly when you have a dog that knows exactly where the bird is and is more than happy to flush it for you. I think of this often when in the thick grouse woods.

[Trekmoor]

I can assure you that a commanded flush does not lead to uncommanded flushes..... unless the dog is incorrectly taught. I work on mainly wild bred birds , grouse , partridge and snipe and those pheasants that manage to live and breed in the wild. Some years ago I used to take out paying clients to shoot grouse over my dogs. I wouldn't have lasted long in that business if my dogs wild-flushed birds before my clients could shoot them.
Nobody, absolutely nobody breeds grouse in pens. Grouse are as wild as the heather they grew up in, yet the dogs pointed them and were steady on point and steady to the birds after they had flushed them and they had been shot.

I trialed those same dogs and they won a few trials, that would not happen if the dogs did not hold point until commanded to flush. The kind of dog so much admired in the States would be eliminated in trials in Britain and on the continent for being " Sticky on point." It is regarded as being a very serious fault on this side of the pond. I think most dogs here are trained to hold point not by being restrained from moving forward but by being quietly and calmly praised for remaining still. As I have said before I don't normally even use a check-cord but although it is a method that very probably takes longer to train properly than the methods used in the states ,it does work well.

Where sitting on point is concerned, I wouldn't like that either but the dogs don't sit on point, they flush on command from the point and then they sit.

I suppose it all depends upon the culture you are brought up in which method you use or prefer.

Bill T.

[mountaindogs]

Bill, what command do you use to release to flush?

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

The thrill of kicking the bushes is the rush you get when they come up right under your feet. Nothing like it!!

Doug

[Trekmoor]

Bill, what command do you use to release to flush?

I use a vocal command " Get in !" preceded by the dogs name and accompanied by an underarm hand and arm movement . I also make sure the dog will still obey if I keep well behind it where it cannot see the hand signal. I.M.O. dogs often are using a body language signal as a command rather than really listening to a verbal command.

I also train my dogs to flush in response to a whistle command. I do this for two reasons that may not apply in America. One is that I do bird counts on grouse and when a dog points well up the side of a hill many times in one day then I get wee tired leggies hiking up to it to command the flush ! I stay where I am, blow the flush command and then count the birds . Yep ! I am bone lazy !

The other time I sometimes use the whistled flush command is when my dog points with thick bushes or saplings in front of it and more bushes behind me. It is sometimes possible for me to move around the side of the cover clump nice and quietly and then whistle the flush. The result often is that what would be an impossible shot or too close a shot from behind the dog becomes a possible shot from the side of the cover. I'm not sure I explained that very well ??? :roll: ......Basically I am putting myself in a better position to shoot from before commanding the flush. I am not sure if my vocal command would send the birds in a bad direction for a shot and so I use the whistled one.

My spaniel hunting friends say this is "cheating" but I just laugh coz they're jealous their flushing dogs can't do the same for them !

Bill T.

[campgsp]

The thrill of kicking the bushes is the rush you get when they come up right under your feet. Nothing like it!!

Doug

+1
Very true, an even bigger rush when they bounce off your chest or a wing to the face. Love it!