Puppy Biting - PLEASE HELP

[MinneapolisMatt]

I am having a problem with my yellow lab pup biting at people (including myself) regularly. The most disturbing part of it is when he is disciplined (typically by grabbing the scruff of his neck or his mouth and loudly saying 'no!') he gets even more aggressive with his biting, and often growls.

I have been doing extensive research on methods of dealing with this behavior, but every technique is failing to correct the biting. When I first got him, I started by "yelping" (loudly saying ouch) and ignoring him. After that, I moved on to grabbing his scruff and giving him a light shake while loudly stating "no". Sometimes I will also grab him around the nose and give a light shake. He almost always opens his mouth wide and tries as hard as possible to bite at me when I do this, so almost daily I am forced to take him to the ground and immobolize him. I do this by laying accross his body and putting my forearm accross his neck. I talk to him in a normal voice while I am doing this, and I am sure to hold him only as hard as I have to in order to immobolize him without hurting him. Sometimes this works, but often he submits for 30 seconds or so and then is back to biting.

The pup is 17 weeks old. I have had him for the last two weeks. It is obvious that he was not socialized in the slightest by the breeder. Is it possible that I got him too late to correct this behavior? I know that he is close to or possibly even in the midst of teething, but he is always given something to chew on. I am truly at my wits end. I am waiting to hear back from the breeder, but if this continues, I don't think I can keep him. The dog shows great intelligence, he has a natural point, loves to retreive, and seems like a good dog all around except for this issue of biting. I figured it was a dominance thing, but after controlling him for minutes at a time daily, his behavior hasn't improved at all. The dog gets regular exercise and plenty of attention, and I socialize him as much as possible, but I can only let him around people who are able to handle him when he starts biting.

Is putting a muzzle on him when he bites an option? I have discussed this with other dog owners, and they can't believe that I am considering this, but I can't think of anything else to do that won't hurt him. Please help, I don't want to give up on this dog, but I can't have a pet, especially a lab, that bites people including his owner.

[ezzy333]

but I can't think of anything else to do that won't hurt him.

I would hurt him and see if he doesn't get the message. Not saying I am right but it sire sounds like he thinks you are playing since you are being so careful to not hurt him. Punishment should hurt sometimes.

Ezzy

[shags]

I've had good luck with grabbing a pup by the scruff of the neck and pinning him to the floor with it. It's kind of like their mother would do. Thing is, you must be quick and strike like a cobra, grab that scruff and pin him in a fairly smooth motion...having to chase him down after a bite then go through this routine won't work. It freaks pups out the first time it occurs, because they aren't expecting that you have turned into The Queen Bitch, especially after all your other attempts at correcting the biting. Keep the pup pinned for a few seconds, and if he tries to bite again, go for it even more aggressively. You might add a sharp 'NO!' If you can time it right, but it really doesn't matter what you say as much as how you say it. Last time I scruffed a pup, I said, Oh really? You think so??? You needn't be loud, just pissed.

Like Ezzy says, sometimes you have to inflict a little owie to get through to them. Think about it...he bit, you yelped. He bit, you held him and talked calmly. No wonder he thinks he's the ringtailed boss.

If you scruff and pin, your pup might holler and flail, so don't be surprised and don't let up until you're ready. Even if he pees. The tough pushy ones sometimes overreact, but that's OK.

Good luck, you have a fairly common problem, and it's not that hard to work through.

[volraider]

the puppy needs a good thumping. I had a 10 month old male that wanted to fight a very,very submissive littermate, I used a bungie cord like a belt across his butt really good turned him loose and he went back towards the other dog then looked over his shoulder at me. I grabbed him by the scruff and gave him another even harder. Turned him loose again and he never looked at the other dog. This was great timing and possibly saved one of my best dogs from being a lifetime fighter and most fighters has to be put down. Sometimes a little pain now is better than the alternative.

[Doc E]

Alpha Roll is the best choice.


.

[AzDoggin]

Kninebirddog's method:

Biting and or nipping are undesired behaviors that should be nipped in the bud right at the start. This is the method that I like to use. When the pup starts to bite or nip I will take my 2 fingers and place them sideways in the mouth with my thumb under the jaw. I then place my other hand behind the head. This helps to brace the pup so they cannot harm themselves by pulling away. Hold this position till the pup stops struggling and vocalizing and where the pup relaxes and gives into your hand being in the mouth and as soon as the pup shows that acceptance and get your fingers out of the mouth, quickly say “release” and roll your fingers gently backwards to take them out.
This changes the rules of the pup’s game. I will then place my hand in front of the pup’s mouth; the pup should LICK your hand. This is a sign of accepting who is the alpha. If the pup should try and mouth your hand repeat the application. I have found that after a couple of applications this behavior ceases. And again I want to stress none of these actions are to ever harm or physically hurt the pup ever. The pup may whine and vocalize some discontent but never pain.

Read more: http://www.kninebirddog.com/puppy-found ... z2CdBM7FpR

Sounds like you have a pretty dominant pup. I'd probably also roll him and growl NO and let him know that biting people is a bad, bad idea.

I would not put a muzzle on the dog, you'd be depriving him of opportunities to learn. I would let him drag a leash when he's out of the crate, or tether him to my belt loop. He might have too much freedom and is making a power grab for more...the crate is an absolutely necessary management tool for a pup like this one.

[donnie_19]

When he is biting at you roll him on his back and make a claw with your hand on his throat. Don't choke him just pin him like his mama would until he quits struggling. Don's start yelling no over and over, Don't lose you temper, remember he is a puppy and need to understand his role. Be consistent and you control the situation, if he is biting others and you can't control him yet, put him in his kennel.

[cjhills]

First, you may notice this is never a problem with dog people. It just doesn't happen more than once or twice.
I don't think dogs are born dominant, They allowed to be dominant. If the Alpha dog in the pack is removed the next one takes his place and becomes Alpha.
Getting this pup at three Months causes some issues, because he already knows he can push. He will learn very quickly that you are in charge,if descend on him like the rath of god. If you have to hurt him do it, quickly and as severely as neccessary and over with. Make sure he knows it is not a game or a democracy and he must do it your way. Cj

[MinneapolisMatt]

Here's a little more detail and an update on the situation:

When I emphasized that I was not hurting the dog, I was doing it more to avoid people posting about animal abuse or that being rough is not an option. Obviously I underestimated the audience (I am new to this forum). I have certainly been rough with the dog. The moment he starts biting I show him who is boss by taking him to the ground. On many occasions he has gotten knees or elbows to his jaw when he has lunged at me. I have also rolled his jowles over his teeth and pressed down hard to enough for it to hurt. I am not beating the dog, but I have most definitely inflicted pain at the right times.

Yesterday shortly after my post, my brother and I were playing with the dog. My brother scooped him up, spun him upside down, and accidently dropped the dog about four feet to the ground. Before either of us could react to the loud thud and sound of air escaping the dog, he was back up jumping around and more excited than ever. This sparked a realization; due to a lack of sozicalization, this dog doesn't understand the difference between positive and negative touching. As his biting got worse, I was spending more time disciplining the dog then praising him. Yesterday everyone in my family spent time petting and praising the dog as he was distracted by his favorite chew. This seems to have already made a difference in his behavior. I am planning to continue an emphasis on positive reinforcement and socialization, and simply ignore/kennel him when he bites. Hopefully after a couple weeks of this, I will be able to treat him normally, and the pain I inflict when he misbehaved will actually mean something.

Thank you all for the advice, I welcome any other thoughts or comments on this matter.

[ultracarry]

First, you may notice this is never a problem with dog people. It just doesn't happen more than once or twice.
I don't think dogs are born dominant, They allowed to be dominant. If the Alpha dog in the pack is removed the next one takes his place and becomes Alpha.
Getting this pup at three Months causes some issues, because he already knows he can push. He will learn very quickly that you are in charge,if descend on him like the rath of god. If you have to hurt him do it, quickly and as severely as neccessary and over with. Make sure he knows it is not a game or a democracy and he must do it your way. Cj

I like your style.

[M&M Shorthairs]

My method of curing puppy biting consists of slapping them under the jaw as soon as they nip. Get progressivly firmer each time you have to do it. I teach my young grandkids this to keep them from running and screaming when pups do this. All of them can handle the roughest of pups by the time they are four years old. I'm sure this will work for you if timing is right and proper force is used, the pup just has to learn that he isn't boss the human is.
Mike

[DogNewbie]

I'm not sure the ignoring him after he bites method is the best choice here. While the pup may not be well socialized, he does know when he feels pain and does know that he doesn't like it. It's tough to give good advice without seeing the correction in action, but I would follow the advice you got and continue to rough the pup up with good timing. With consistent repetition, he'll eventually associate nipping with bad outcomes and I think it will stop. Fix it know before he gets big enough to cause some real damage. All that being said, you're on the right track with giving positive petting and loving when the pup is behaving correctly. I'd just continue with the severe discipline when he nips.

[4dabirds]

Read the book culture clash by jean Donaldson. It is in PDF form online for free. Think to yourself what is it the dog gets from this behavior and how you can replace it with a more acceptable behavior for you. You are fighting against the dogs nature and if you do not succeed now how will you succeed when the dog is bigger?

[frosso]

When my setter was little I thought I had brought home a snapping turtle with fur. Nothing worked, rolling lip, pinning, yelping, pop under jaw, pinch ear, claw hand on neck, nothing worked until a friend who breeds labs told me half water/half listerine in a squirt bottle. It was amazing. It only took a couple of squirts and the behavior stopped.

[MinneapolisMatt]

When my setter was little I thought I had brought home a snapping turtle with fur. Nothing worked, rolling lip, pinning, yelping, pop under jaw, pinch ear, claw hand on neck, nothing worked until a friend who breeds labs told me half water/half listerine in a squirt bottle. It was amazing. It only took a couple of squirts and the behavior stopped.

Interesting method, if the problem gets worse, I will definitely try it. Is there any concern with listerine in a dogs eyes causing problems?

I'm thinking I might have just temporarily lost my touch. I haven't had a dog for about a year now, and I hadn't had a pup since I was 10. I've been more deliberate with a hard smack accross the jaw when he starts to bite, and it seems to be working well.

Once again, thank you all for the advice. Hopefully some of these suggestions help another owner who is getting frustrated.

[gittrdonebritts]

I like to Pinch there lips/checks against their teeth and say no loud most cases it works in the first few times. in more stubborn cases i shove my fingers down their throat and say no. Like Ezzy said sometimes a correction should hurt a little.