gun dog with a cat problem

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TEX-X
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gun dog with a cat problem

Post by TEX-X » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:01 am

Looking for a little help. I just picked up another gsp from someone I work with. Neutered 1.5 year old male with no training. He will chase cats till he's blue in the face. That's a bad idea. When they are the wifes babies. He will kill them if I'm not there to stop it. Which if he kills them momma will put a bullet in him......I've tried negative association with an e collar....well he treed a cat this morning....he will only do it if I'm not around.... any one have any suggestions? I'm to the point of muzzleing him and penning him up with a rank feral tom cat and letting him learn his lesson...

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:09 am

Keep the babies inside or keep the dog in a kennel. You will not cure a cat killer and letting one tear into him will make it worse.
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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by DogNewbie » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:15 am

More info on how you did the ecollar training would be helpful. If he associates the ecollar nic with you being around, you're doing something wrong. The dog should associate the nic only with the behavior. Did the dog wear the collar turned off for a couple months before you started using it? Is he ever out unsupervised so that he is free to chase cats without any correction? Are you yelling at the dog as you hit the ecollar? Personally, I would only let this dog out when you are able to supervise. Every time he even takes a step toward a cat, hit him hard with the collar so he yelps and keep your mouth shut. Act like you didn't even notice anything. Should only take a couple times would be my guess. If you think he still associates you with the shock, try hiding at a window that would allow you to see him at all times and hit him when he believes he is alone. Sometimes you need to set the dog up to fail to correct the behavior effectively.

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by topher40 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:39 am

Get rid of momma and the cats. :D
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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by jimbo&rooster » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:12 pm

Ive got a cat killer. To date he has killed something like 17 barn cats. I have tried everything from an ECollar, to a size 12 ariat, and he never misses a beat. Mine isnt even sneaky about it. The ONLY thing that makes my boy even consider leaving the cats alone are the 2 100+ pound livestock guard dogs that are usually around the barn.

Im pretty fortunate that my wife likes the dogs better than the cats and barn cats are pretty easy to come by.

Good luck.

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by TEX-X » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:36 pm

The dog was 100 percent collar conditioned before training began with him....I tried negative association with him just like I do when I snake proof my dogs....when he winds the cats or starts to creep on them I will hit him and not say a word....I sat on the swing the other night and had him sit and stay right. Next to me with the cats eating 5 foot away....he did great....he watched them but did not break sit....I heeled him away. He did good...he is on a lunge line when I'm not hom a good 75 yards from the cat barn.....and I can't get rid of momma or id have to get a real job.

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by 4dabirds » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:45 pm

The dog will associate the cat as the cause of the correction and you may have made it worse. Unfortunately you are on the get the dog to kill something forum , and you need to be on the stop the dog from killing something forum. You may be able to successfully do this but it will take a greater understanding of what makes the dog tick and some serious training. Try reading culture clash by jean Donaldson you can get it free in PDF form just search culture clash PDF . Also look into Ian Dunbar he has Several books on dog training that may be of some help. Just keep in mind that you are a cue in the picture as the dog sees this. It is not safe to chase cats when you are present but it is safe when you are not. The dog has no morality or reason he only sees safe and dangerous.

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by 4dabirds » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:52 pm

The dog will associate the cat as the cause of the correction and you may have made it worse. Unfortunately you are on the get the dog to kill something forum , and you need to be on the stop the dog from killing something forum. You may be able to successfully do this but it will take a greater understanding of what makes the dog tick and some serious training. Try reading culture clash by jean Donaldson you can get it free in PDF form just search culture clash PDF . Also look into Ian Dunbar he has Several books on dog training that may be of some help. Just keep in mind that you are a cue in the picture as the dog sees this. It is not safe to chase cats when you are present but it is safe when you are not. The dog has no morality or reason he only sees safe and dangerous.

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:53 pm

You're going to have to get a real job anyways if you live through him bringing momma a dead puddytat. I wouldn't want to risk the dog getting clawed in the eye, either. Seen that. Not pretty. I do a lot of positive reinforcement training and I can tell you all it will get you is a cat killer that works for snacks. I have broke dogs off deer with a decent success, but never, ever off cats.
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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by TEX-X » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:11 pm

I appreciate everyones input....I. am glad I can come to this site and get advice from seasoned gun dog people....I posted this same question on another forum and I got answers like keep the cats and the dogs kenneled.....and garbage like that

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by 4dabirds » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:26 pm

If you want this to work as in snake or deer breaking I think you need to take yourself out of the picture. The dog will have to perceive the correction as significant enough to take the motivation out of the dog. As soon as the dog gets that motivation back he will try again and if there is no correction his motivation will get higher. The problem with correction is it is only temporary and dogs will try again and again if there is the slightest chance of success.

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by larue » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:32 pm

good luck,my blaze dog loves fur.skunks spraying him,porkies quilling him just make him more focused on killing them.I will not talk about feral cats.
Remember gsp's were bred to kill fur back,so some have a lot more of this instinct than others.
The only sure way to make it not happen is to not let the dog and a cat in the same place at one time,sorry it is that easy and that hard.

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by RoostersMom » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:33 pm

I have been wholly unsuccessful in training my chessie and our recently passed GSP not to kill cats. No amount of correction would make a dent in their desire and interest in killing cats, and the GSP was notoriously soft - a "1" on a tri-tronics. The same with one of our EP's. Three of our dogs live with a cat, the three others are participants (or variables rather) in the "office pool" at my husband's work for "Cat Killing Pool." So far, keeping them separate has given the cat about 5 months. If I continue to keep them separate, Nermal (the cat) will live a long life here. If not, bye-bye Nermal. It's much like trying to reform a chicken killer. I've not had much success with that either.

I don't think it's garbage to keep the dog kenneled if the cats are around, that's if you care whether he kills cats or not. If the dog kills one of your wife's cats, I bet the dog will be looking for a new home. He'd probably rather be kenneled than that. Penning him with a feral cat will likely get you a dead cat and a really jazzed up dog - maybe a jazzed up dog with a missing eye.

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:33 pm

Getting lit up for skunk hunting resulted in Casey adapting to a quick and silent kill MO.
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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by TEX-X » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:43 pm

The cats are barn cats and the dog is on a lunge when I or my wife is not around...I can control him I just don't want him going after a cat with her....because as they say heck has no fury....and I will probly come home to her burying him....but she's not as big as I am and I don't want her getting bit while trying to save her babies....I've stressed to her the importance of having the ecollar on him at all times when he's out....but things happen

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gun dog with a cat problem

Post by Gooseman07 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:17 pm

My parents have barn cats. My dad has mentioned to me that they have too many cats. We need to get rid of the he says. I tried trapping and shooting them with a BB gun. My GSP has had the most success at, at least getting them to leave. He will listen to me and stay away from the cats when I'm around. The same with my parents because I have them watch him from time to time. One time we were outside and I was doing something, and I noticed another one of our dogs go tearing towards the garage. I ran out, my GSP had one in his mouth and had broke its back til I walked outside. He was pumped after that. I scolded him and made him stay with me for a while, kinda like a timeout. He was all jacked up after that too! Needless to say, I was able to walk him right next to some of the other cats later at heel and he didn't move from my side. I don't know what I did in training for this but I think it may have something to do with his recall.

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by campgsp » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:29 am

Best option. Get a Kennel run for the dog. He will eventually get and kill one of the cats or get his eyes scratched out. Been there not something you want to go through.
Forget the ecollar you're only making it worse.

Option two get rid of the cats and misses. But don't see that going over well :?

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by AzDoggin » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:40 am

I agree with the kennel probably being the best option.

I've read, however, about a fur-sharp DD being broken against barn cats. The owner had a wire cage that he'd place the cat in - then it was basically aversion training, same way you'd do snake-braking. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying the process - he described a fairly detailed process that took place over several days if not weeks.

EDIT - here's that information I was referring to:
When we have done this with older dogs first thing need is the dog must plotz "down stay" reliably everytime. When I and most others train a dog to plotz the dog can only move when physically released, a tap on the head. Then we put a barn cat in a coon ball, wire cage used for coon hound training. This protected the cat, although I personally dont care for cats. There is no need for violence.

We did this for about 2wks everyday. With the dog in a plotz and the cat strutting around in front of him. I think the old cat liked getting in there and messing with the dog to be honest.

After that with the dog calm and in plotz we would call old kitty over. Where the dog could see and hold him, play with him etc.

Then back to the ball with the dog released but with a e collar. Corrections made if needed. We would even bring ole tom and his armored ball over and set him down next to the dog while he was eating.

After two months or so both dog and cat were allowed to roam around. Again with an e collar on the dog and close supervision.

Then eventually no supervision was required. To this day both of the dogs we did this with won't touch a cat.

However if given a command they will kill a coon, woodchuck etc without any hesitation. I don't know how they are sharp on one and not the other but they are.

Now myself we have barn cats and horses, chickens etc. I teach my pups to leave them alone since day one. Rex will play with one of the cats for hours, never so much as a growl they are buddies. Any sort of coon or other varmit he'll take out if I let him.

It all takes time and training but it can be done
These guys are cat-broke :D :

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by DonF » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:09 am

I've never had the problem. Only had a couple cat killers and they were staked out with barrel house's. Had one black male cat that broke them both of it to the point where I would come home and the car was sleeping with one or the other. I would go the avoidance route. Well not quite true, I'd kill the cats myself; I don't care for cats.
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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by DogNewbie » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:35 am

DonF wrote:I've never had the problem. Only had a couple cat killers and they were staked out with barrel house's. Had one black male cat that broke them both of it to the point where I would come home and the car was sleeping with one or the other. I would go the avoidance route. Well not quite true, I'd kill the cats myself; I don't care for cats.
How did the cat break them of it?

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by DonF » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:23 pm

DogNewbie wrote:
DonF wrote:I've never had the problem. Only had a couple cat killers and they were staked out with barrel house's. Had one black male cat that broke them both of it to the point where I would come home and the car was sleeping with one or the other. I would go the avoidance route. Well not quite true, I'd kill the cats myself; I don't care for cats.
How did the cat break them of it?
You would have loved it. The cat would get just close enough to them they couldn't reach them, then sit and groom himself paying no attention to them. The dogs were frantic on their chain but didn't work. Finely that cat would reach out and swat the dog once in a while. The wife went out and found that cat in Pete's house asleep and a few days after that I went out and Lefty was in his house with his head out the door and asleep on top of his head was the cat. We never did think of a name for that cat so we just called him BC, For black Cat. BC finally disappeared , I figure he tried to train a coyote!
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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by SHORTFAT » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:30 pm

DonF wrote:
DogNewbie wrote:
DonF wrote:I've never had the problem. Only had a couple cat killers and they were staked out with barrel house's. Had one black male cat that broke them both of it to the point where I would come home and the car was sleeping with one or the other. I would go the avoidance route. Well not quite true, I'd kill the cats myself; I don't care for cats.
How did the cat break them of it?
You would have loved it. The cat would get just close enough to them they couldn't reach them, then sit and groom himself paying no attention to them. The dogs were frantic on their chain but didn't work. Finely that cat would reach out and swat the dog once in a while. The wife went out and found that cat in Pete's house asleep and a few days after that I went out and Lefty was in his house with his head out the door and asleep on top of his head was the cat. We never did think of a name for that cat so we just called him BC, For black Cat. BC finally disappeared , I figure he tried to train a coyote!
Lol! When I was about twelve, the neighbor's cat would do this to our Old English Sheepdog... :evil: I hated that cat... so one day, I took some of my lawn mowing money, got on my bike and rode to the hardware store to buy another foot of chain and a coupling link... That stupid cat never knew what hit it! :twisted: I swear, that old dog sat there with a smug look on his face for days! :mrgreen: My Dad wanted to yell at me, but busted out laughing and couldn't stop! :lol:
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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by AzDoggin » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:26 am

SHORTFAT wrote: Lol! When I was about twelve, the neighbor's cat would do this to our Old English Sheepdog... :evil: I hated that cat... so one day, I took some of my lawn mowing money, got on my bike and rode to the hardware store to buy another foot of chain and a coupling link... That stupid cat never knew what hit it! :twisted: I swear, that old dog sat there with a smug look on his face for days! :mrgreen: My Dad wanted to yell at me, but busted out laughing and couldn't stop! :lol:
Hehe. I like your style, SHORTFAT! :lol:

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Re: gun dog with a cat problem

Post by Georgia Boy » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:03 pm

The only good cat is a dead cat
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